147 replies to this topic

[Sable Dove]

Anecdotal evidence: My atlas with one mech efficiency (coolrun) is able to kill two lights by itself. If you're having trouble, try lasers/SSRMs.

If you're having trouble in the easiest-to-use weight class, there's not much anyone can do to help you.

[Theodor Kling]

Not really about hit detection, but an intersting Obeservation from a match:
After dying because my Cent flanking a close range Cat had to discover said cat had seismic sensors i spectated the rest of the match in a Blackjack with JJ, dual ERPPCs and I think backup MGs and small lasers.
He seemed really good for a while, using not jsut the JJ but also his speed, constantly on the move between jumps to make him less predictable when popping over cover, leaving it completely when it was clear all enemies had other targets to get more shots in, and hitting CTs of enemy assaults and heavies very precisely... but then came a Commando and he missed him several times, even when the Commando forgot not to go in straight lines.
He simply didn´t lead his target enough being so used to slower targets, which he could lead perfectly in midjump.

[NRP]

In my experience, lights can tank more damage than an Atlas at times (far too often really). There has to be some hit detection issues remaining in this game.

[FrDrake]

Like was mentioned earlier, when you get to the bracket where people can shoot well, the life expectancy of a light anywhere near a brawl is nil.

[NRP]

If lights die quicker at higher ELOs, it's probably due to focused fire as much as individual aiming skill. Isn't there better teamwork at higher ELOs?

In PUG land, lights get away with murder (literally).

[Kazly]

As an experienced light pilot - lately the spider exclusively - I have to disagree with this.

Especially now, with high, pinpoint damages in excess of 50pts on one spot, I promise you, lights are not over powered. There's nothing like running by an assault and loosing a leg that hasn't taken any damage prior to the first shot.

I go against pilots all the time that CAN aim and CAN'T aim. I tend to fight those that CAN'T aim one on one, and those that CAN aim? I let them engage a bigger mech first

Even non pinpoint high alpha builds can take down a light VERY quick when they can aim. My 4P annihilates light mechs, why? Because I can keep my lasers on target pretty quick - poor, poor jenners and their extremely oversized CT.

You may not like it, but nerfing lights because there are 'good light pilots' out there is ridiculous. It took me nearly 2.5 minutes to take down a dragon 1v1 full health, and even though the chap couldn't aim, he had one of my legs crit.

Edited by Kazly, 15 July 2013 - 07:08 AM.

[Tuonela]

Having played light mechs since closed beta, my opinion is that light mechs are currently as low in the meta-game for survivability as they have ever been. Even six months ago you could take a Raven, Jenner or Spider and basically dance around the enemy for days without anyone nailing you with a good enough shot to take you out. Now? Good luck rounding the corner on someone with good aim, they can leg you in a single shot, there isn't much you can do to avoid it sometimes, especially if they're running seismic.

HSR has greatly improved hit detection, which affects lights the most and makes them die much faster. Additionally, seismic has taken away the biggest advantage a light mech has, which is being able to come up on the enemy unseen and from behind. Assaults see you coming before you are visible and turn around to face you. Its hard being a light pilot now (at least in comparison), kudos to everyone who is making it work though.

[BookWyrm]

Anyone saying that light mechs are too tough to kill nowadays either lives on another continent or lacks skill.

[William Mountbank]

NRP, on 15 July 2013 - 06:22 AM, said:

In my experience, lights can tank more damage than an Atlas at times (far too often really).

The Atlas CT internals can take more damage than the entire full body armour on my Spider in every location. However, there is normally a mountain or a rock between my Spider and the Atlas that no amount of PPC fire from him can overcome.

Also, stuff mounted on the torso of your assault is not so effective against lights. Try putting more lasers in your arms.

[Baba Yogi]

ive seen ravens survive multiple hits from my dual ppcs, with their armor going red at a pace that a heavy's would. There is something going on definately. Lights are already very hard to hit unless they are overreaching or making piloting mistakes. Now there is this registering issue. And not with just with ppcs one time i remember i was trying to hit a commando with my ac20 raven, i seemingly hit him multiple times without it registering one time i did fire ahead of him and it seemingly hit the snow yet the dude died. Stupid things like this keeps happening and it is annoying as hell.

[Angel of Annihilation]

William Mountbank, on 15 July 2013 - 01:31 AM, said:

Just to reiterate for the light-haters:

If you take your 3PPC/Gauss Highlander and shoot your 45 damage alpha at a Spider and miss, you just did zero damage - even if you think you were aiming correctly. Maybe he moved at the last minute, maybe you didn't compensate for projectile travel, maybe convergence meant everything went wide on both sides. It wasn't the netcode or screwy hitboxes, it was you and your choice of weapon loadout.

The Spider is incredibly thin, with lanky limbs and torso - it represents a pretty small amount of pixels to hit. To compensate for this advantage it has the lowest damage output of all mechs and is the weakest mech vs other lights, mediums or just any other mechs mounting lasers and SSRMs.
The best way to pilot a Spider is stay behind a mountain before jumping out and hitting an assault in the back. And mountains maketh the mech invincible.

Maybe you'll be happy when clantech arrives - doesn't the Madcat have rear facing missilepods?

Actually you just made my point for me. You take your 3 PPC/Gauss Highland and YOU MISS..that is 45 points of wasted damage. The thing is it is alot more common to miss a light mech with this than to hit it. So lets say it takes you 4 Alphas to hit the Light mech, that means it took 180 points of damage to kill it. Now multiple this by 3-4 mechs trying to take out that pesky light that keep shooting them in the back. Yes eventually someone will connect with something big enough to crush the light but my god how much firepower and time did they take to finish it off?!?!?!

On the other hand, if you had been firing at an Altas, you would have likely hit with each 45 point Alpha and had finished him off in 2-3 hits. Now mutiple this by 3-4 mechs and just how long, how much potential firepower, did it take to knock out the Altas? Half as much as the light....OR....how about 10-15% of the firepower that got directed at that pesky Spider and that is not counting ECM.

This is exactly what I am talking about in regards to how in general survivability of a light is much higher than that of an Assault.

Also just to drive the nail into the coffin. Ask yourself how many times the last enemy mech surviving on a team is a light vs any other class. I think if your honest, you will come up with the light as the last surviving mech of a team 8 out of 10 times.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

I don't know about the posts title, but there are MAJOR issues with Spiders.

We had a match, we won, 8 to 7.

Was a Spider vs. an Atlas and a Heavy. I watched so much damage make contact, but not seem to do a dang thing, it was rediculous.

[Kazly]

Viktor Drake, on 15 July 2013 - 08:17 AM, said:

Actually you just made my point for me. You take your 3 PPC/Gauss Highland and YOU MISS..that is 45 points of wasted damage. The thing is it is alot more common to miss a light mech with this than to hit it. So lets say it takes you 4 Alphas to hit the Light mech, that means it took 180 points of damage to kill it. Now multiple this by 3-4 mechs trying to take out that pesky light that keep shooting them in the back. Yes eventually someone will connect with something big enough to crush the light but my god how much firepower and time did they take to finish it off?!?!?!

On the other hand, if you had been firing at an Altas, you would have likely hit with each 45 point Alpha and had finished him off in 2-3 hits. Now mutiple this by 3-4 mechs and just how long, how much potential firepower, did it take to knock out the Altas? Half as much as the light....OR....how about 10-15% of the firepower that got directed at that pesky Spider and that is not counting ECM.

This is exactly what I am talking about in regards to how in general survivability of a light is much higher than that of an Assault.

Also just to drive the nail into the coffin. Ask yourself how many times the last enemy mech surviving on a team is a light vs any other class. I think if your honest, you will come up with the light as the last surviving mech of a team 8 out of 10 times.

This is the funniest thing I have read this morning - I actually laughed out loud in my quiet office

"You just made my point for me?" ROFL - by saying lights are overpowered because people miss? Comparing that to hitting an atlas? My friend, that's like complaining that apples make better applesauce than oranges.... lights are fast, small, agile, turn on a dime, have jump jets, sneak around buildings....but the best (imo) spider has 3 medium lasers, the jenner has a ct the size of a building, the raven has no jump jets, and the commando is...well, it's a commando - and they can all be killed very easy by people that can aim.

You want to complain how much damage/time it takes to kill a light? ROFL, try going 1v1 in a spider vs an atlas - then you can complain how long it takes to kill a mech.

By your argument, you are saying assault mechs should be nerfed because it takes so much time to kill them in a light.

Edit: And, to remove the 'nail from the coffin' (*sighs*), the reason lights are usually left till the end, is due to a few reasons: 1. the assault/heavy/mediums are often perceived as more of a threat, and shot first. 2. Lights have different roles than other mechs 3. We don't often like confrontations.

Edited by Kazly, 15 July 2013 - 08:47 AM.

[Kazly]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 15 July 2013 - 08:21 AM, said:

I don't know about the posts title, but there are MAJOR issues with Spiders.

We had a match, we won, 8 to 7.

Was a Spider vs. an Atlas and a Heavy. I watched so much damage make contact, but not seem to do a dang thing, it was rediculous.

It spreads over the spider easy, due to small hit boxes, and a laser touching for less than a second does near 0 damage, but registers a hit regardless. So if he fired an alpha of lasers, ac20, srms, lbx10, and 15 ac2's at once, and the cursor turned 'red', it was probably because one of those lasers scraped some paint off the mech, and everyhting else went slightly wide.

[Kenyon Burguess]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 15 July 2013 - 08:21 AM, said:

I don't know about the posts title, but there are MAJOR issues with Spiders.

We had a match, we won, 8 to 7.

Was a Spider vs. an Atlas and a Heavy. I watched so much damage make contact, but not seem to do a dang thing, it was rediculous.

since you were watching from their cockpit, were they leading the spider far enough ahead? and was the spider under 90 meters from them? when I watch fights from the inside of the heavies and assaults, so many players aim at the CT and then go slack-jawed when all their ballistics and ppcs go wide or nick an arm. sometimes I wonder how many players understand the concept of distance to target and travel time in this game.

[Team Leader]

I think its just fine as it is actually. Just because people suck at hitting fast targets doesnt make lights OP or too survivable, if youre gonna take gauss and PPC instead of SRMs or regular lasers then thats your fault, you didnt come prepared, you took weapons that are good at killing big slow things quickly. Plus its just the light playstyle that makes them last longer in matches anyway.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Geist Null, on 15 July 2013 - 08:56 AM, said:

since you were watching from their cockpit, were they leading the spider far enough ahead? and was the spider under 90 meters from them? when I watch fights from the inside of the heavies and assaults, so many players aim at the CT and then go slack-jawed when all their ballistics and ppcs go wide or nick an arm. sometimes I wonder how many players understand the concept of distance to target and travel time in this game.

There was "some" bad aiming.

But the Spider wasn't what I'd call an amazing pilot, and there were some points where they shot straight at him as he was moving either straight towards or straight away from the shot, and it made impact, and did nothing.

I've heard all the various explainations regarding hit boxes, and hitting right between two hitboxes causing no damage etc.

I'm just saying, if someone saw a few matches in a row like this, I could understand their thought that light's were able to soak too much damage.

[NRP]

BookWyrm, on 15 July 2013 - 07:34 AM, said:

Anyone saying that light mechs are too tough to kill nowadays either lives on another continent or lacks skill.

And light pilots who say this should hop into a Heavy or an Assault and try to shoot lights.

[Ransack]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 15 July 2013 - 08:21 AM, said:

I don't know about the posts title, but there are MAJOR issues with Spiders.

We had a match, we won, 8 to 7.

Was a Spider vs. an Atlas and a Heavy. I watched so much damage make contact, but not seem to do a dang thing, it was rediculous.

I have seen and fallen victim to this. My favorite was the Jenner that I watched eat 3 dual AC20 Alphas and keep running the other night. Something went wacky as far as lights are concerned. Except when I pilot one it seems

[Sable Dove]

People are just mad because PPCs and Gauss aren't easy to hit small targets with, and no one wants to deviate from their cheese builds. Use some lasers.

And honestly, I notice shots failing to register just as often on any other class as they do with lights. And really, having 45+ damage not counted against an assault is a lot worse than it not being counted against a light.