100 replies to this topic

[TheMagician]

What would happen to gameplay, if PPCs were to suddenly disappear? Well, we found out a bit yesterday. Steel Jaguar and Swords of Kentares played a best of 5 match on conquest mode, and as a part of the match stipulations there were no PPCs used. So, what were the results?

Well, first, we saw lots of other weapons. We saw: Large lasers, large pulse lasers, small pulse lasers, SRMs, streaks, medium lasers, gauss, UAC5s, AC20s, and more. We also saw a greater diveristy of mechs being taken (part of this is due to league rules, which prevented you from taking more than 3 of 1 chassi for certain drops, and more than 2 for another + needing at least 4 different chassis per drop, but this wasn't the only reason). We saw teams take a mix of different cataphracts, jagers, stalkers, DDCs, cents, hunchbacks, jenners, and ravens. No, we still aren't seeing that many quickdraws, trebuchets, or dragons. But those mechs were viable options if a team decided to, just that many haven't played them enough to bother taking.

The matches were intense, movement was very important, aim and piloting skill were still vital, and overall the matches were very fun. I am not saying we should remove PPCs, but it does show how one weapon so incredibly changes how the game is played. Thus, based on looking at all factors, I think that if PGI reduces PPC effectiveness by a small degree (the proposed current boating rules will have little to no effect, and is honestly not a useful way to spend time), that the game will get fairly well balanced fast. This can be done by increasing the PPC heat (perhaps the midpoint between where it was, and where it is).

I think these matches also show something else that we desperately need, which is to provide better class or tonnage based balance. Not in 'two teams are equal in tonnage', but in one's that encourage a wider use of mechs. Many of the games we now enter in open queue use 5-6 assault mechs.I know this in the works, but we'd love to hear more information about that, so that we, the players, can talk about what we most enjoy.

[General Taskeen]

If PPC's disappear all that is left for my AWS-8Q record sheet edition is a small laser

[Mechteric]

Quote

This can be done by increasing the PPC heat (perhaps the midpoint between where it was, and where it is).

I think the "midpoint" of heat may not be enough, though it certainly couldn't hurt to try for a couple weeks or so then decide if more heat is needed.

[Rippthrough]

GuasstotheFaceOnline?

[Enigmos]

Founders will recall when PPCs were so weak they were never used. Then other things, or other pilots, or the (lack of) teamwork were blamed. It isn't the fault of the PPC. The good craftsman does not blame his tools.

Edited by OriginalTibs, 28 June 2013 - 05:23 AM.

[Little Nemo]

General Taskeen, on 28 June 2013 - 05:07 AM, said:

If PPC's disappear all that is left for my AWS-8Q record sheet edition is a small laser

I think you're missing the point. The message speaks to PPCs not being the "be all end all".

[Mechteric]

OriginalTibs, on 28 June 2013 - 05:22 AM, said:

Founders will recall when PPCs were so weak they were never used. Then other things, or other pilots, or the (lack of) teamwork were blamed. It isn't the fault of the PPC. The good craftsman does not blame his tools.

PPC weren't weak because of the heat or damage they did, but because the netcode made it next to impossible to hit with them! They had a network induced firing delay and then you had to compensate for lag even more beyond that! We've come a long way since then and its pretty safe to say that most people have no problem hitting with PPCs anymore.

The good craftsman blames his tools when they are clearly rusty and dull.

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 28 June 2013 - 05:30 AM.

[John MatriX82]

TheMagician, on 28 June 2013 - 05:05 AM, said:

What would happen to gameplay, if PPCs were to suddenly disappear?

Either gauss hell or laser hell, as it was before PPCs came to a better degree of usefulness

I find srms lacking too much punch to be even considered to be taken, even more in competitive, streaks are more effective, this until they won't fix the "always hit the CT" thing as they said.

PPCs are in a right spot now, what breaks PPCs AND LRMs are boats, 3+ ppc boats (I mean 4-5-6 ppcs), LRM 50+ boats are destroying both weapon systems and will always render their damage and balance a hell. SRMs will too (once they'll rebuff them), unless we don't take care of them using some sort of tube-limiting factor I'm posting everywhere since a few months.. but they don't listen.

[Eumenes]

The results from those fights is encouraging! We'll see with the heat penalties when they arrive, but it would be nice to have more diversity than the current AC20 / Guass / PPC trifecta.

[Enigmos]

Some will blame anything else rather than accept their own responsibility. My point was that we did have a time when PPCs weren't used and the quality of game play then was no better or worse than now. The only difference is that then you all couldn't blame your problems on PPCs.

[Ghogiel]

I would be ok with 9 heat PPCS.

What really needs to happen is SRMs need to be a staple brawler weapon again and then I can run my cent and drop mad bombs like I used to... Right now lasers aren't working it for me like they used to, SRMs suck, So it's PPCs, Gauss or ACs all day erry day for me.

[General Taskeen]

Skinny Pete, on 28 June 2013 - 05:23 AM, said:

I think you're missing the point. The message speaks to PPCs not being the "be all end all".

I was making a joke at the title of the OP.

[MegaZordTrololo]

OriginalTibs, on 28 June 2013 - 05:36 AM, said:

Some will blame anything else rather than accept their own responsibility. My point was that we did have a time when PPCs weren't used and the quality of game play then was no better or worse than now. The only difference is that then you all couldn't blame your problems on PPCs.

Except that the gameplay WAS better.... You would get a lot of variety in combat. Some times a huge brawl with all 16 mechs, sometimes a ranged standoff. Sometimes a mix of everything =D

[Ken Fury]

I guess we can all agree that PPCs need a slight increase in heat (+1 to +1.5), maybe coupled with a reduction in Projectile speed to 1200m/s and the cooldown increased to 5s. ER PPCs could stay as they are, their heat is still a balancing factor.

Generally Mechs need more hitpoints, the Locust/Flea need it to become more than a hilarious gimmick mech. And all other Mechs will need it to be prepped for the Clanbullshittech.

[Kaldor]

Pretty spot on observation and Ive wondered the same thing. I think raising the heat back up 2 points on PPCs would go aways toward balance. Even that is not the complete answer though as people will still shutdown alpha with them. There needs to be some balance to the heat system before it will truly be fixed and SRMs need a buff to give brawlers some real teeth.

[Appogee]

Interesting experiment! Thanks for trying it and also for sharing the experience!

[Rippthrough]

I would like to just see the projectile speed nerfed back down, let's see how many people take them when they can't lead properly.

[Kaldor]

Rippthrough, on 28 June 2013 - 05:50 AM, said:

I would like to just see the projectile speed nerfed back down, let's see how many people take them when they can't lead properly.

To what? The speed of a gauss? Still not that hard to hit with and you actually just made it easier to get 2-3 PPCs and a gauss round on the same target. The speed is not the issue.

[Rippthrough]

It's part of it, the firing delay and the slow projectile speed it previously had meant a lot of players would forgo it for lasers.

Edited by Rippthrough, 28 June 2013 - 06:02 AM.

[Kaldor]

Rippthrough, on 28 June 2013 - 06:02 AM, said:

It's part of it, the firing delay and the slow projectile speed it previously had meant a lot of players would forgo it for lasers.

Except the firing delay was due to PGI's bad network code... PPCs werent the only weapons that had that issue. It was just most evident on ballistic style weapons.