344 replies to this topic

[One Medic Army]

HansBlix WMD, on 28 June 2013 - 07:37 PM, said:

100% of my games are stomps for one side or the other. And they are pretty obviously caused by one side having at least one full 4 man stack, usually two.

This is pure supposition.
MWO tends towards stomps, to the point where 8-3 is typically a fairly close game.


Pay attention next match you play, see which side loses the first mech. Then see how often that same side ends up losing.
MWO snowballs by virtue of game design.

[Zervziel]

HansBlix WMD, on 28 June 2013 - 07:14 PM, said:

Translation: Do not threaten my ability to rampage over casual players in my tryhard group. It's what makes my life worth living. I will stifle your speech with crappy meme posters.

You're too transparent.

The last time I team dropped, it was against another premade. I have no clue what you are talking about.

Doesn't matter how awesome you think you are, MWO is ultimately a team game and many players realize this. They'll meet up randomly in the game chat, team up and drop. Just a little coordination goes a long way. All it takes is one coordinated lance to inspire the rest to teamwork. Hell I've seen plenty of stories where someone stepped up and took charge and ultimately won.

Edited by Zervziel, 28 June 2013 - 07:42 PM.

[Naelbis]

The issue isn't teams vs. Pugs as much as it is easy communication through Vent/TS vs a crappy command and chat interface. If they ever put integrated voice chat in the game and everyone can talk to their lance/team without using a 3rd party software I think many players will see PUGS in a different light once they break out of newbie ELO. I play teams when I have time to play many matches in a row, but I PUG when I only have time for two or three. It would be nice to have the same level of sommunication ability no matter which I am doing.

[dario03]

Naelbis, on 28 June 2013 - 07:45 PM, said:

The issue isn't teams vs. Pugs as much as it is easy communication through Vent/TS vs a crappy command and chat interface. If they ever put integrated voice chat in the game and everyone can talk to their lance/team without using a 3rd party software I think many players will see PUGS in a different light once they break out of newbie ELO. I play teams when I have time to play many matches in a row, but I PUG when I only have time for two or three. It would be nice to have the same level of sommunication ability no matter which I am doing.

A true premade will still have a advantage. When you play with the same people you will know what they have, how they play, and how good they are. But yes integrated voice chat would help since quick communication is very helpful.

[HansBlix WMD]

Zervziel, on 28 June 2013 - 07:41 PM, said:

The last time I team dropped, it was against another premade. I have no clue what you are talking about.

Your argument from anecdotal evidence: In one game where I was in a stack, we got another stack. So what? What a crappy argument.

What I'm trying to tell you is that as a solo it's obvious when you're against a stack, and it IS NOT FUN. For anyone. YOU ARE DRIVING PLAYERS AWAY. WHY IS THIS HARD TO UNDERSTAND?

One Medic Army, on 28 June 2013 - 07:39 PM, said:

This is pure supposition.
MWO tends towards stomps, to the point where 8-3 is typically a fairly close game.


Pay attention next match you play, see which side loses the first mech. Then see how often that same side ends up losing.
MWO snowballs by virtue of game design.

There's a difference between supposition and observation. But you "supposing" that I'm mistaken is actually an assumption. Learn English.

[Asakara]

When they implement factions, instead of pugs being part of 1 big pool, they will be in 7 pools (6 for the houses and 1 for the lone wolves). The matchmaker will set it up so house aligned folks will drop with others of the same house (solo or up to 4 in a group), or with player run units (like mercs) that have aligned with that house (also solo or up to 4 in a group). Lone wolves will fill in the gaps if there are not enough house and aligned player run unit members to make a 12 man. At least that is how I understood it will be..

[Lucy Cameron]

One Medic Army, on 28 June 2013 - 07:39 PM, said:

Pay attention next match you play, see which side loses the first mech. Then see how often that same side ends up losing.
MWO snowballs by virtue of game design.

This. I only drop in PUGs. The sheer randomness of it makes it fun. Almost always, once you're down one mech, that second mech follows closely. Then a whole lance disappears and in short order it's you in your Spider that has to face off with an assault mech.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

KHETTI, on 28 June 2013 - 06:35 PM, said:

i can sum up MWO in one word as to how it plays as of this time....Garbage.
Sorry PGI but its true.

PS. sad that so many groups cower away from playing other groups and instead drop in what should be a solo only queue, and some of the excuses i've been given as to why is a hoot.

Guess what... 8man's are rubbish too. There's a reason many of us don't play 8mans, and it's because there's no limitations to weightclass, so it boils down to the same crap, different day every, single, match.

So many people just run with 3 other players from their team in a 4 man and farm pugs... yes it sucks for you guys, but to be fair. That's how every single other multiplayer game plays. CoD: You get farmed by teams as a pug [you don't realise it but it's there] Battlefield: You get farmed by teams of players if you're a pug. World of Tanks: You get farmed by team players if you're a pug.

So frankly, the problem isn't that you're getting farmed by team players, it's how obvious it feels in MWO compared to petty much any other game.

[One Medic Army]

HansBlix WMD, on 28 June 2013 - 07:56 PM, said:

There's a difference between supposition and observation. But you "supposing" that I'm mistaken is actually an assumption. Learn English.

Your statement you are against teams is speculation.
You have no evidence.

[HansBlix WMD]

One Medic Army, on 28 June 2013 - 08:16 PM, said:

Your statement you are against teams is speculation.
You have no evidence.

You're right, the two spiders circling my trebuchet with tag for the LRM stalkers on the other hill are random puggers.

Or the four hexappc stalkers from house Steiner giving each other teenaged high fives in all chat were just puggers.

Give me a break.

[Chaosstheory]

i just want to point out that there have been many time that i have been in a premade and we have stomped or been stomped (with the occasional close match). i have also run solo and have had it go the same way (granted it tends to lean a bit more towards loosing). but i find that alot of the times i (we) get stomped has been because of either poor teamwork (ex. lights not scouting, assaults playing lrm boats with 1 lrm 15, or people running around and getting picked off), stupidity, or uneven weight matches. now granted that is a bit of a matchmacker problem, but i have been in a match where i have been the lightest mech on my team in a catapult and we got torn apart by lights/mediums, i have also been in a match were our heaviest was a catapult and we had 5 lights and we got rolled (although granted we did keep them on their toes for much of the match). so granted matchmaking can be a bit of a problem right now, but i find a good chunk of the time it is poor playing/teamwork.

p.s i was in a match where i dropped solo. we stomped the other team 8-0 and we were accused of being a premade when i was sure that none of use were (or if there were it wasnt many)

[Unbound Inferno]

One would assume this is an obvious thing.

I believe I've said it before, but it seems some basic logic appears to escape the minds of the devs at times.

[Roland]

One Medic Army, on 28 June 2013 - 07:39 PM, said:

This is pure supposition.
MWO tends towards stomps, to the point where 8-3 is typically a fairly close game.


Pay attention next match you play, see which side loses the first mech. Then see how often that same side ends up losing.
MWO snowballs by virtue of game design.

This is a fact, and has been true throughout previous mechwarriors.

It's due to the fact that combined fire will tend to bring down mechs very quickly. As soon as a mech goes down, you have fewer targets for the remaining shooters to aim at, which will tend to focus fire further. Additionally, fewer of those shooters are having to deal with any return fire, so they are free to take time with their shots. This kills more mechs faster, and the game quickly spirals to a conclusion.

The OP is being willfully ignorant at this point. His assumption about all of the enemy teams he's facing being made of groups, while none of his teammates are grouped, is not only unsupported, but is nonsensical. Why would the matchmaker specifically put all the grouped players on the team opposite the OP? Because the matchmaker is specifically designed to ruin the game just for him?

[HansBlix WMD]

Roland, on 28 June 2013 - 08:29 PM, said:

This is a fact, and has been true throughout previous mechwarriors.

It's due to the fact that combined fire will tend to bring down mechs very quickly. As soon as a mech goes down, you have fewer targets for the remaining shooters to aim at, which will tend to focus fire further. Additionally, fewer of those shooters are having to deal with any return fire, so they are free to take time with their shots. This kills more mechs faster, and the game quickly spirals to a conclusion.

The OP is being willfully ignorant at this point. His assumption about all of the enemy teams he's facing being made of groups, while none of his teammates are grouped, is not only unsupported, but is nonsensical. Why would the matchmaker specifically put all the grouped players on the team opposite the OP? Because the matchmaker is specifically designed to ruin the game just for him?

Another person who has trouble with English.

When I solo, sometimes I'm on the team with the stack. And my team will win virtually guaranteed.

Now try to formulate a non-nonsensical argument without misreading.

And by the way the "combined fire" part is the main reason stacks win: calling out of position targets and focusing them down. It's a better way to play and solo puggers cannot do that.

Edited by HansBlix WMD, 28 June 2013 - 08:31 PM.

[Gaan Cathal]

HansBlix WMD, on 28 June 2013 - 06:32 PM, said:

Trying to play with 7 random mouthbreathers vs two groups of four people is too ridiculous.

It's statistically highly improbably that you are, infact, consistently pitched against multiple teams with seven fellow 'mouthbreathers'.

In my experience the majority of the time groups are fairly evenly distributed between the two sides. Mostly games tend to have lopsided scores because of the snowballing effect as one said gains a firepower advantage. 8-3 results seem about average. 8-6 is very close match.

[HansBlix WMD]

Gaan Cathal, on 28 June 2013 - 08:33 PM, said:

It's statistically highly improbably that you are, infact, consistently pitched against multiple teams with seven fellow 'mouthbreathers'.

In my experience the majority of the time groups are fairly evenly distributed between the two sides. Mostly games tend to have lopsided scores because of the snowballing effect as one said gains a firepower advantage. 8-3 results seem about average. 8-6 is very close match.

Yet ANOTHER person who can't read. Please read.

[TheGreatNoNo]

Want to talk about stacked? Ran into a synch dropped 8 man today from House Steiner during a two man I was doing today, even have a screen shot.

You know, I`m surprised as hell they managed to pull it off with Elo, and they also got stomped with us losing just a catapult.
Anyway groups running in PUG matches is not too big of a deal for me, we are filler for the most part. However when you get **** like this, that is a completely different story, such utter ********.

[Gaan Cathal]

HansBlix WMD, on 28 June 2013 - 08:35 PM, said:

Yet ANOTHER person who can't read. Please read.

HansBlix WMD, on 28 June 2013 - 06:32 PM, said:

Trying to play with 7 random mouthbreathers vs two groups of four people is too ridiculous.

Oh look. I did read. "Trying to play with 7... vs two groups of four" That's fairly ******* clearly placing the author's point of view as part of one team made entirely of 'mouthbreathers' versus a pair of four-mans.

Lost One, on 28 June 2013 - 08:37 PM, said:

You know, I`m surprised as hell they managed to pull it off with Elo, and they also got stomped with us losing just a catapult.
Anyway groups running in PUG matches is not too big of a deal for me, we are filler for the most part. However when you get **** like this, that is a completely different story, such utter ********.

Did you confirm they were synched? It'd be the first time I've seen Elo synched past, though if the same eight regularly play together they'll probably average out to a similar Elo. That said, it's entirely possible it's just two four-man Steiner groups. Not like the House tag implies membership of a clan or anything.

Edited by Gaan Cathal, 28 June 2013 - 08:40 PM.

[Roland]

HansBlix WMD, on 28 June 2013 - 08:31 PM, said:

Another person who has trouble with English.

When I solo, sometimes I'm on the team with the stack. And my team will win virtually guaranteed.

Unless you go up against a team with a group on the OTHER side.
Given that you believe there is a huge liklihood of teams dominating all the time, then this would suggest that it's actually most likely that the other team will also have a group.

Or do you believe that there is somehow a bias built into the matchmaker, which is intentionally trying to only put a single group into a game, and filling the other side with pure pug players?

HansBlix WMD, on 28 June 2013 - 08:31 PM, said:

And by the way the "combined fire" part is the main reason stacks win: calling out of position targets and focusing them down. It's a better way to play and solo puggers cannot do that.

Actually, solo players can do exactly that. I do that when I am pugging (which is daily, by the way).
I don't need to have someone tell me what to target, because I can tell by the position of my teammates what they are going to be shooting.

Most good players are very effective when pugging, because they don't really need to communicate that much (especially when going up against disorganized players). There are most likely times when you get crushed, and it's actually just a random group of players on the other side. They just happen to have a few players who are better than you, and are able to pay attention to what each other are doing.

[New Breed]

MechGorilla, on 28 June 2013 - 06:42 PM, said:

Here's a crazy idea: Install TeamSpeak (or Vent, Mumble, whatever) and get on one of the many, completely free, servers and start teaming up with people. This game was designed to be a team game, people who cooperate and work together will always "stomp" a bunch of "random mouthbreathers".

Even if you seperate out the queues, there will be people who naturally work together, learn to use the command interface, or [gasp!] use the chat to work together. Then you'll be complaining that you want those tools disabled because it's not fair that these people have figured out how to play the game the way it was designed to be played.

or they could.. you know.. let pugs vs pugs only. OH MY GOD WHAT A CONCEPT.