67 replies to this topic

[Bushrat]

I would like to know what everyone really thinks. Some say they are fine, some say they are broken and too powerful. Your vote please

Edited by Bushrat, 06 July 2013 - 09:21 AM.

[WolvesX]

Voted for both, because I could.

[Ngamok]

Bushrat, on 06 July 2013 - 09:07 AM, said:

I would like to know what everyone really thinks. Some say they are fine, some say they are broken and too powerful. Your vote please

They are not too powerful in terms of damage. They are too powerful because of the heat and speed buffs they received. They need to get more heat back, even going from 8 to 9 would be good and maybe slow the speed down to AC/10 speed.

[Donnie Silveray]

Ngamok, on 06 July 2013 - 10:06 AM, said:

They are not too powerful in terms of damage. They are too powerful because of the heat and speed buffs they received. They need to get more heat back, even going from 8 to 9 would be good and maybe slow the speed down to AC/10 speed.

Pretty much ^^.

PPCs themselves aren't the problem rather it's their sub attributes and the heat buff they got. In my opinion, the PPCs are what are generally holding back the proper balanced meta. If PPCs were put back into their place, and some other weapons adjusted, we'd see proper role warfare again. Or at least more of it compared to right now.

[JudgeDeathCZ]

They are OP...or maybe other weapons mainly for brawling just sux?Like SRMs and LPLs you know?

[Unbound Inferno]

The balancing factor of PPC has always been heat - and PGI removed that. As a result they can be boated and be threatening.

Since HSR had its last major workout and PPC hits well, its made this unlimited direct-fire weapon the best available.


Simple solution:

PPC heat 10
ERPPC heat 15

[Karazyr]

No just slow them down

[ReissTC]

Main complaint is boating. I think they should have more heat. Bumped back to 10 heat should reduce the practicality of a boat somewhat by reducing the effective rate of fire, while not particularly impacting PPCs negatively when used alone or in pairs.

I do have complaints about them being superior to a large laser, large pulse laser, or AC/10, though. IMO PPC heat adjustment would be a good start, since those other weapons should be more capable of sustained damage due to heat (especially the AC/10, which to be practical would weight about twice as much as a PPC)

[EvilCow]

PPCs are fine, convergence/slots/heatscale are "broken".

Fix the root causes of boating and balancing weapons will be much easier.

[General Taskeen]

An attempt to make the heat less frustrating and for them to be easier to hit with for PPC's is what happened, and now the 'boat heat nerf' is an attempt to make it more frustrating instead of just overhauling heat and heatsinks altogether. I predict the 'heat boat nerf' won't actually change anything. Its also been suggested that the PPC return as a fast beam like MW4. Its not just PPC's though, although they are prevalent and easier to use than they used to be. There are many things that need fixing, especially the least used weapons.

Top Issues:

- High Alpha Pin-Point
- Heat Thresholds/Heat Sink Design
- Lack of 'thinking mans' heat penalties (slowing your Mech down at high heat, sluggish movement, ammo explosions between 90-120% heat, etc.)
- Certain weapons remain useless and possibly need overhauls (cuts down on what is 'best' to use, need more variety)
- Long-standing ECM concerns with a string of 'hard counters' cuts down on usability of classic builds/designs

Edited by General Taskeen, 06 July 2013 - 10:44 AM.

[Zyllos]

The only thing I see wrong with PPCs is that they need to be upped to 9/12 heat, PPC/ERPPC respectively.

The main underlying issues is:

• Pin Point Convergence/Missile Patterns
  
• Relaxed Hardpoint Restrictions
  
• Poor Heat Scale/Penalties
  
• No Tonnage Limits

[Jaguar Prime]

ERPPC's are definitely fine. (the people who complain about these are usually anti-long range play/anti-sniper)

Regular PPC's are okay but become a problem when boated.

I said this in another post. I suggest people get in a mech equipped with no more than 2 PPC's then play 10 matches. You will then see they are no more op than a medium laser in it's roll.

It's killing me to see people wanting something nerfed when it's not in and of itself the problem. A single ppc is no more powerful than a single AC20 or single LRM 20. The ability to boat them is more the problem.

Maybe I should start a thread to get the AC20 and LRM20 nerfed. They are both too good for their rolls. Maybe I should go after AC2's, they are crazy good when you have 4 or more of them. How about UAC5's 3 of them put out crazy dps even when they jam. See what I'm doing here?

[PhoenixFire55]

No they are not. Because I still see mechs in game that DO NOT have PPCs. Can you imagine that?!?!

[Appogee]

PPCs aren't too powerful.

Boating of PPCs is powerful.

Fix convergence, and fix heat penalties, and PPCs will be fine.

[Unbound Inferno]

Zyllos, on 06 July 2013 - 10:43 AM, said:

The only thing I see wrong with PPCs is that they need to be upped to 9/12 heat, PPC/ERPPC respectively.

The main underlying issues is:

• Pin Point Convergence/Missile Patterns
  
• Relaxed Hardpoint Restrictions
  
• Poor Heat Scale/Penalties
  
• No Tonnage Limits

PPC 10 and ERPPC 15. Only upping it slightly will not affect the most common 4x PPC build.

Jaguar Prime, on 06 July 2013 - 11:05 AM, said:

ERPPC's are definitely fine. (the people who complain about these are usually anti-long range play/anti-sniper)

Regular PPC's are okay but become a problem when boated.

I said this in another post. I suggest people get in a mech equipped with no more than 2 PPC's then play 10 matches. You will then see they are no more op than a medium laser in it's roll.

It's killing me to see people wanting something nerfed when it's not in and of itself the problem. A single ppc is no more powerful than a single AC20 or single LRM 20. The ability to boat them is more the problem.

Maybe I should start a thread to get the AC20 and LRM20 nerfed. They are both too good for their rolls. Maybe I should go after AC2's, they are crazy good when you have 4 or more of them. How about UAC5's 3 of them put out crazy dps even when they jam. See what I'm doing here?

Your example of 2 PPC is a massive flaw.

Then explain away why the problem of boating is specifically because both the PPC and ERPPC are being boated excessively and dominating both the fight and the options? Its either PPC or nothing out there. LRMs which are supposed to be high-damage longish-mid range weapons cannot compete with it.

On the other hand, UACs are fine on both the jamming and ammo usage. the AC20 style is perfectly acceptable as the wielder becomes a slow target or fast and fragile - both with pathetic long-range options and limited ammo. The other AC lines are burst-type and avoidable and solvable issues to handle with torso twisting and movement.

The PPC and ERPPC are an exclusive direct-fire unlimited ammo and minimal penalties to go with it.

Their heat needs to be returned to the original values to even begin to bring them in line.


The LRM20 is dirt useless on a Catapult, an Awesome makes it like an LRM15 and its a LRM10 on a stalker, and even then its a waste. Its the slowest recharge for the widest missile spread and the worst effective ammo usage available for missiles. If its nerfed further it might as well be removed from the game.

[CancR]

Need to follow BT more to have more of a mech sim game. Deviating away from this gives you another sequel to mechassault.

[Chavette]

Ppcs arent the problem.

All of the game mechanics playing in the favor of a meta where the ppc excels at are the problem.

[Ningyo]

PPCs ARE too powerful.

however as many stated this is not because of their damage or any other single factor, its because of how all of the game conspires to help them.

Pinpoint Alpha makes weapons that fire a single powerful instant shot more powerful compared to ones that do damage over time (Lasers), fire rapidly (Autocannons), or spread their damage (missiles, though these are a bit buggy right now)
Lack of Heat Penalties makes higher heat weapons better (which PPC's only barely are)
Boating the same weapon exaggerates any minor differences in power and further exasperates the pinpoint alpha problem since they all have the same projectile speed.
Damage falloff on PPCs at close range means that instead of not being able to fire them at all under 90m they will still do 5 damage at 45m which its rare for enemies to get closer than. And on the far end of range is far enough to snipe with on most maps.
Hardpoints for energy weapons are very common so almost any mech can manage many of these so they can be placed on an optimal mech instead of an "Awesome" mech

if some or all of these issues get addressed they likely will still be good, but no longer too powerful. Although raising heat by 1 or slowing projectile speed is not a bad idea. Raising minimum range to 120-180 might help too so they do less damage while in brawling ranges.

[Sephlock]

Awww you took away the ability to vote for both ?

I wanted to, and for legitimate reasons this time .

Too powerful? No.

Too effective? Yes.

Nerf their convergence...

[Jaguar Prime]

Unbound Inferno, on 06 July 2013 - 11:13 AM, said:

PPC 10 and ERPPC 15. Only upping it slightly will not affect the most common 4x PPC build.


Your example of 2 PPC is a massive flaw.

Then explain away why the problem of boating is specifically because both the PPC and ERPPC are being boated excessively and dominating both the fight and the options? Its either PPC or nothing out there. LRMs which are supposed to be high-damage longish-mid range weapons cannot compete with it.

On the other hand, UACs are fine on both the jamming and ammo usage. the AC20 style is perfectly acceptable as the wielder becomes a slow target or fast and fragile - both with pathetic long-range options and limited ammo. The other AC lines are burst-type and avoidable and solvable issues to handle with torso twisting and movement.

The PPC and ERPPC are an exclusive direct-fire unlimited ammo and minimal penalties to go with it.

Their heat needs to be returned to the original values to even begin to bring them in line.


The LRM20 is dirt useless on a Catapult, an Awesome makes it like an LRM15 and its a LRM10 on a stalker, and even then its a waste. Its the slowest recharge for the widest missile spread and the worst effective ammo usage available for missiles. If its nerfed further it might as well be removed from the game.

Did you read what I posted? Better question. Did you understand it?

Swap out a AC20 for a Single PPC. then tell me whats op. If it's so op, your ingame performance should instantly go up by equipping a single one in place of an AC20. Do the same for 2 of em. Instead of running dual Gauss or dual AC20's, Run dual PPC's. Did your performance go up?

A single ppc is no more dangerous than a single AC20 or single LRM20. Only when boated do they become a game changer.
By extension 2 ppc's are no more dangerous than 2 AC20's or 2 LRM20's. It's when you stack 4 or more together that they start to become the terror that you guys say they are.

I'm comparing weapon to weapon and not the weapon and platform. The platform can and will change as more mechs are added.
The reason people boat ppc's is because it can be boated. You also can note that Large lasers are boated on the same platform. So are other various energy weapons. Currently ppc is the dominate choice, because it has superior range and it's not damage over time like LL. If they made LL instant like PPC's , everyone would switch.

My point still stands. PPC's are fine as an individual weapon. maybe not so when boated.

As for ERPPC's. I see no reason to discuss that as there is nothing wrong with it, it is in line. You don't see anyone boat 4-6 erppc's seriously. Maybe 2 with regular ppc's in a competitive build.