158 replies to this topic

[sev922]

Take it from a nuclear engineer: once you lose magnetic containment and your pressure, your fusion stops occurring. Anything that WOULD happen would be more along the lines of a standard hydrogen explosion. Sure, you've got a mass of star in your reactor but it'd be quenched by the outside air that's, relative to it, freezing. Maybe some heat level increase in nearby 'Mechs, but I wouldn't think too much damage at all.

[Thoman Coston]

Friendly Fire on and splash damage are both part of the game, it would be silly without them. I would go further by saying that splash damage should not be limited to armor damage only but needs to depend on the receiving mech's condition, thus it could mean internal damage or even destruction of another mech nearby.

[Freyar]

Doesn't matter. Screw science, give core breach explosions. [/irrational]

[Lightfoot]

That is true, there is no danger of a radioactive release in a fusion reactor explosion, but as to the severity of the explosion, that would depend on the containment structure and the amount of hydrogen in the magnetic bottle and it's state at the time of the breach. This reminds me of the 'mech salesmen. "oh no, this baby is perfectly safe, just strap this fusion reactor to you back and off you go."

[Reported for Inappropriate Name]

Friendly Fire will be on because it not only opens up tactical choices for enemy mechs (using enemies for cover and manipulating his support's movement through it, or otherwise making him hit his teammate)

not to mention it will reward you for good positioning and aim

yes it opens the game to griefing but griefers, griefers always find a way; and to fear them enough to take away enjoyable features of your game is a fool's choice. You react to them by punishing yourself and they're only going to laugh harder. I should know, my early days on the internet were not crescent fresh.

Edited by Battlecruiser, 09 June 2012 - 06:11 PM.

[Kazzamo]

Friendly fire and splash damage are fine. But cores do /not/ breach. Explosions make things exciting so they put them in the books and past games but in the table top those were non-canon optional rules. To say it again NON-CANON. I rather they give something closer to the traditional rules not Mechwarrior by Micheal Bay.

[Randalf Yorgen]

the official rules don't have anything like the video in the city where the Warhammer goes up but when we used to play TT we had a few optional rules that we used. Here is one of them, although I found this on line and it is not created by us it is for all intents the exact same rules we used;

Effects of Exploding 'Mechs

If ever a BattleMech suffers enough damage that it explodes, the resultant
force of the explosion is sufficient to damage other 'Mechs nearby. There are
two cases in which this would occur: ammunition explosion within a given 'Mech
which destroys the 'Mech (by destroying all the internal structure within the
'Mech) or from other damage in which the fusion reactor engine ignites and
explodes (this could also be done on purpose, but that is risky and foolhardy,
and would only be done in a moment of desperation).

Case #1: Ammunition Explosion.
If a 'Mech suffers a critical hit (or heat induced ignition) of the
ammunition carried within, the 'Mech in question will suffer damage just as
in the regular BattleTech rules. However, any excess damage from the ignited
ammunition could well harm a 'Mech nearby. If two 'Mechs are grappling (in
hand-to-hand combat), and one of them suffers an ammunition explosion that
devestates its internal structure, the other 'Mech will suffer damage points
equal to half of the damage points left after marking off the internal hit
boxes of the first 'Mech. The damage is divided into groups of 5 and applied
randomly as per the hit location rules. This assumes the two 'Mechs are in
extremely close proximity (hand-to-hand combat will do this).
For situations where the 'Mech whose ammo has exploded is adjacent to
another 'Mech, the remaining damage points are divided by 6, and that number
of damage points is applied (in groups of five) to EACH 'Mech in an adjacent
hex. 'Mechs further out than 1 hex from the exploding 'Mech are unaffected.
Beyond this, an ammo explosion does not affect anything else (terrain,
'Mechs more than 1 hex away, etc), unlike a fusion explosion...

Case #2: Engine destruction, fusion explosion
In this case a 'Mech has suffered sufficient damage such that the
fusion power plant of his 'Mech explodes. This has the effect of a small
nuclear explosion (well, it IS a fusion engine!). The damage that is yielded
in this explosion is EQUAL TO the engine rating of the 'Mech whose engine was
destroyed. The further away other 'Mechs are to this explosion, the less damage
they will take. The distance/damage ratio is as follows:

Distance from exploding 'Mech Damage suffered
Same hex (grappling) or adjacent hex--> 100% engine rating
2 hexes away --> 75% engine rating
3 hexes away --> 50% engine rating
4 hexes away --> 25% engine rating
5 hexes away --> 10% engine rating
6 hexes away --> 05% engine rating
7 or more hexes away --> no significant damage

The damage to each 'Mech is randomly distributed in groups of five, just as
above. Note that other 'Mechs in the immediate vicinity could very easily be
destroyed by a 'Mech whose fusion exgine blows (example: a WASP is next to an
RIFELMAN. The RIFLEMAN's engine shielding is somehow breached and the engine
explodes. This would do 240 points to the WASP. The WASP dies.). I don't
believe it is necessary to say much about what would happen to flying 'Mechs
(or AeroSpace fighters) should they be within the blast radius (suffice it to
say they take a level 4 fall, in addition to any other damage suffered in the
explosion). Also a chain-reaction could insue if 'Mechs who are damaged/
destroyed by the fusion blast take sufficient critical hits to eliminate the
shielding around THEIR engines....

There are several more paragraphs, including terrain, heat and even self destruct options. if you want you can look it up here : http://indy-adventur...h/destruct.html

I especially like the Chain Reaction part of the rules. We were messing around one night with these rules and we let them fly, well after about 5 rounds someones engine took four crits at the same time (from two weapons) and the roll was made that said engine explosion. The mechs that were close to this one were damaged already from the fighting and they ended up eating a face load of damage, it was like popcorn. I think in the end 4 Mechs went up one after another.

when it was done we just sat there for about 5 minutes, then we laughed, drank a few beers then reset the board and went at it again.

[Horizon]

Freyar, on 09 June 2012 - 04:29 PM, said:

I considered moderate to minor based on proximity with sensor disruption. As long as any destruction is attributed to the guy that caused the breach, I'll be happy with it.

That ruins the point of friendly fire.

[Tincan Nightmare]

Its amazing the number of posters on the forums that want to needlessly complicate the game. From increasing costs to the players to restrict certain equipment or chassis, to people who want to see mechs go nuclear (despite that being the opposite to how mech fusion engines work as expalined in pretty much every single sourcebook that writes about it, outside OPTIONAL rules.) What ever happened to a game just being fun to play. If your on a map that favors up close, short range fights, do you want to die or be heavily damaged for winning an exchange only to have the mech you've been fighting suddenly turn into a mini nuke? I'd rather see it collapse to the ground like a smoking wreck and be able to get back into the fight. This would just incite players that are about to die with a heavily damaged mech to try and run in close to its opponents in the hope that they will stop firing for fear of an engine breach. Its a totally unneccessary mechanic, save for those that want a big pretty explosion when they destroy a mech.

[eZZip]

I'd much rather have no explosions from dead mechs; short range weapons don't need that disadvantage.

Blu C, on 09 June 2012 - 04:41 PM, said:

My only problem with this is that the canon is very mixed about what exactly happens when the core is breached. For instance the tech manuel seems to imply that it really shouldn't cause much damage at all, if any, because the reaction gets quashed by the flood of cold air before it can run out of control. By contrast it is quite common in the books to read about some 'Mech exploding with horrible results.

Books go for entertainment. The books are to Battletech as movies are to real life as they both realistically depict some parts and overstate others.

[Rufus Ingram]

Sorry, I thought the thread was about a recipe for a good time I can live without core breaches. A smoking Atlas falling to the ground is sufficiently satisfying for my taste.

[Iwaslost]

It's a game who really cares about physics? Like honestly there's a ton of **** that makes no sense what so ever in the Universe and you're arguing about how made up tech that none of you know jack about doesn't fit with your limited knowledge?

Also why should they follow canon? If canon limits the game and makes it less fun then it should be ignored. The first goal should always be to make an enjoyable game for the majority of people playing it.

[IceTitan]

To be honest all that should happen is the plasma super heating the outside air, making it look like the mech blows up. But in end the mech just stops dead cold and falls over in a very anti climactic death.

Just games and books etc do it for wow and well people have more tendency to stay interested when **** goes boom. Rather than, oh its on fire then splat on the ground like a lifeless corpse. But canon wise, mechs don't go into meltdown, overheat too much and your mech's engine just eats itself up to the point it doesn't work anymore. And core it and it gets too cold in the engine for it to generate plasma needed, so splat on the ground.

Edited by IceTitan, 09 June 2012 - 07:15 PM.

[Chunkymonkey]

In mercanaries you would take damage when you killed him, not on explosion which made no sense.

[Kazzamo]

Iwaslost, on 09 June 2012 - 07:12 PM, said:

It's a game who really cares about physics? Like honestly there's a ton of **** that makes no sense what so ever in the Universe and you're arguing about how made up tech that none of you know jack about doesn't fit with your limited knowledge?

Also why should they follow canon? If canon limits the game and makes it less fun then it should be ignored. The first goal should always be to make an enjoyable game for the majority of people playing it.

Couple things, you say made up tech we don't know jack about... when the the canon tactical read outs and "fluff" text explain why cores don't go nuke, and If they ignore canon they might as well not call it MechWarrior, that's why.

But the lore reasons aside core nukes pretty much negate all reasons to use close range weapons.

Edited by Kazzamo, 09 June 2012 - 07:25 PM.

[Teralitha]

If they dont have mech explosions that do damage and heat to surrounding mechs in close proximity, I PROMISE you I will grief and abuse that aspect of the game maliciously with wild abandon til everyone I meet on the field cries to God to make it stop. You want griefing? I will give you griefing you stupid *** morons

[Kaboodle]

Tincan Nightmare, on 09 June 2012 - 07:05 PM, said:

This would just incite players that are about to die with a heavily damaged mech to try and run in close to its opponents in the hope that they will stop firing for fear of an engine breach. Its a totally unneccessary mechanic, save for those that want a big pretty explosion when they destroy a mech.

This this this. Suicidal rush tactics because your mech might/will explode is a horrible mechanic because it completely devalues close range weapons and fighting. It also encourages smaller mechs to instead of take advantage of their speed and agility, to just charge in directly and hug an enemy's legs, hoping his teamates will blow them both up together. Definitely a "fun killer"

[Teralitha]

Kaboodle, on 09 June 2012 - 07:23 PM, said:

This this this. Suicidal rush tactics because your mech might/will explode is a horrible mechanic because it completely devalues close range weapons and fighting. It also encourages smaller mechs to instead of take advantage of their speed and agility, to just charge in directly and hug an enemy's legs, hoping his teamates will blow them both up together. Definitely a "fun killer"

Did you ever play MW4? There was splashing. It was accepted as part of the game.

Do you really think everyone will be doing this on purpose in every game, every time? You know, I think everyone would rather try to survive and win the game. Suiciding is just a last ditch effort if you got nothing else left... and light mechs splash damage is pretty insignificant..

This in no way shape or form, ruins anyones fun. If anything... its funny.

I recall one game where I was duking it out with a madcat, in a couger, and he was critical, and I was nearly dead, his last alpha made him overheat and shut down. I had 1 weapon left, and I knew it wasnt enough to finish him off before he started up again, I ran up between his legs, fire one last shot to the crotch and suiciding, which killed him, game over, team won. it was worth it.

Edited by Teralitha, 09 June 2012 - 07:38 PM.

[Kazzamo]

Even a light mech in some of those games in the past where (sadly) mechs do go critical they could do some decent damage to the legs of even assault mechs. And people suicide all the time in games... I can see people that join games with the cheapest light mech, get it to go boom, join another match with another cheap mech, repeat.

[Iwaslost]

Kazzamo, on 09 June 2012 - 07:17 PM, said:

Couple things, you say made up tech we don't know jack about... when the the canon tactical read outs and "fluff" text explain why cores don't go nuke, and If they ignore canon they might as well not call it MechWarrior, that's why.

But the lore reasons aside core nukes pretty much negate all reasons to use close range weapons.

My problem with that is unless it's written by a physics major or someone else like that it's usually just someone making stuff up to make a good game or enjoyable read. I've seen a bunch of people copying random websites they've read that contradict each other on what's physically possible.


Not ignore it I wrote that incorrectly. But it's based off a tabletop game right? It's not going to translate perfectly into a F2P game. Like them having to get rid of salvage so that it wouldn't be unbalanced. They'd have to do some tweaking to make it work. And it also has to appeal to a wide variety of people not just the die hard fans or they won't be able to fund it. Wouldn't you rather have a game that's different than some canon than no game at all?

And yeah I agree if you explode every time it probably would negate close range weapons. But we have no control over what's in the game. The developers will make it how they want and think it works.