158 replies to this topic

[Thomas Hogarth]

Iwaslost, on 09 June 2012 - 07:12 PM, said:

Also why should they follow canon? If canon limits the game and makes it less fun then it should be ignored. The first goal should always be to make an enjoyable game for the majority of people playing it.

Lets get this out of the way first: Canon is my main consideration for saying that there should be no damage. MW4s engine explosions always broke me right out of immersion. That being said...

There's a very good gameplay reason for engine explosions to be out of the game: Mechanics that punish closing to close range and brawling encourage sit-and-shoot tactics, which isn't a whole barrel of fun for people trying to advance into that. Close range brawls are fun for just about everyone, and are more visually interesting to boot.

Some people have cited MW4-ish problems where large 'Mechs couldn't target small 'Mechs at knife range. I would hope that the smaller disparity in model size in MWO would compensate for that.

We don't know if stackpoles are in the game or not. Personally, I hope not. The optional TT rules that deal with stackpoles pretty much come right out and tell you that the concept is silly, and should only be used for players that like random explosions. But we'll have to see exactly how they handle before starting grudge match forum threads over it.

[QuantumStorm]

Personally I like the idea that if you crawl up on my *** to shoot me in the face because you can't aim farther than 5 meters out. I hope I blow up and take you out also.

[Frostiken]

LordDeathStrike, on 09 June 2012 - 10:15 PM, said:

Fusion reactors implode, causing a micro singularity that briefly exists severly dmging or destroying anything near it, when it collapses theres a vacuum near it that air rushes to fill making the mushroom cloud similar to nuclear detonations. theres no fallout from a fusion implosion but its massively destructive in a small area, compared to a nuclear weapon causing mech dmg in a wide area and massive poisenous fallout that fouls the ground for eons.

ps add a poll option for massive point blank dmg on core break fusion implosions. if youre dumb enough not to run away in a light or med, you deserve to die, heavy or assault kiss your armor good bye.

You would be correct, if fusion reactors in Battletech had so much reactant in them that they contained themselves under their own gravity.

When a star can no longer provide enough fusion output to hold up its own weight, it implodes and collapses in on itself. When the implosion hits the center, all of its mass and momentum from the collapse can indeed crush to a singularity, at which point the implosion rebounds, and the tremendous energy of the collapse causes an explosion of unimaginable proportions.

Seeing as how the fusion in a mech's rector is not supported by gravity, and thus does not obliterate the entire landmass it's currently in, none of this would happen.

Edited by Frostiken, 09 June 2012 - 10:56 PM.

[Teralitha]

QuantumStorm, on 09 June 2012 - 10:49 PM, said:

Personally I like the idea that if you crawl up on my *** to shoot me in the face because you can't aim farther than 5 meters out. I hope I blow up and take you out also.

Yes, splash damage would be the deterant for such ... tactics.

[Frostiken]

Logic fail - aiming with long range weapons is easier than close range weapons.

Knife-fighting is where the skill in Mechwarrior is. Anyone who says otherwise is bad at mechs.

[Teralitha]

I prefer to call it brawling, but brawling isnt in your face less that 10 meters kind of fighting.. you can brawl from the 150-400 meter range effectively without getting in range of splash damage, if your a decently skilled pilot.

Edited by Teralitha, 09 June 2012 - 11:10 PM.

[Draxern]

Frostiken, on 09 June 2012 - 11:00 PM, said:

Logic fail - aiming with long range weapons is easier than close range weapons.

Knife-fighting is where the skill in Mechwarrior is. Anyone who says otherwise is bad at mechs.

Considering not everyone has played beta i fail to see how you can make a generalised comment on what takes skill in merchwarrior onlinel. You might be able to say in merchwarrior 4 close range fighting took skill or such.

Anyway i think should be able to damage your engine from overheating.

[Frostiken]

Draxern, on 09 June 2012 - 11:27 PM, said:

Considering not everyone has played beta i fail to see how you can make a generalised comment on what takes skill in merchwarrior onlinel. You might be able to say in merchwarrior 4 close range fighting took skill or such.

Anyway i think should be able to damage your engine from overheating.

I'm gonna go on a limb and say that how it's worked in the last three games isn't going to be much different from how it'll work here, given that they're all still roughly the same weapons with the same properties, not to mention the intrinsic properties that say moving your aim to track a block of flats at long range requires much less effort and is much safer than being close enough for enemies to constantly be moving around you thus requiring rapid aim adjustment, split-second decisionmaking, situational awareness, and is much more dangerous.

Edited by Frostiken, 10 June 2012 - 01:29 AM.

[Lightfoot]

Kazzamo, on 09 June 2012 - 07:36 PM, said:

Even a light mech in some of those games in the past where (sadly) mechs do go critical they could do some decent damage to the legs of even assault mechs. And people suicide all the time in games... I can see people that join games with the cheapest light mech, get it to go boom, join another match with another cheap mech, repeat.

Just make it random with a less than 20% chance and no one would try to exploit it.

I also have to say if they leave Core Breach explosions out of MWO completely the game's RP will be diminished. It wouldn't be in previous MechWarrior games if it didn't exist in MechWarrior lore, even by an optional rulesset. Having 'mechs occasionally go up in a little mushroom cloud reinforces the roleplay of being on a battlefield of the far future and piloting a futuristic giant robot walking tank, the battlemech.

By the way MW3 did have great Core Breaches, they even left craters in the ground, but they were left out of multiplayer. I suppose because players could cause one by alpha-striking when already at high temperature. However, you just make a Core breach a random chance event and no one will try to exploit it.

It's amusing or ironic that something as iconic to MechWarrior gaming lore and imagery as a 'Mech suffering a critical core breach and resultant mini mushroom cloud is excluded as impossible by TT fictional fusion engine readouts. I just think Core Breaches need to be included in some non-exploitable form for MechWarrior roleplay reasons. Roleplay is going to get people to play MWO. And, hey, TT has an optional rulesset to include core breaches, so it's not ruled out completely.

Edited by Lightfoot, 10 June 2012 - 03:03 AM.

[KageRyuu]

QuantumStorm, on 09 June 2012 - 10:49 PM, said:

Personally I like the idea that if you crawl up on my *** to shoot me in the face because you can't aim farther than 5 meters out. I hope I blow up and take you out also.

In the TT there's incentive to keep some range, especially if your enemy is bigger than you, it's called melee. On the TT most lights run the **** away from an approaching Atlas for a reason, because it can boot them across the fairway or smash in their cockpits with a lucky strike. That said however, the Devs have said there won't be melee to start with, however their wording does give hope that they may eventually bring melee to the MechWarrior franchise, along with my favorite two mechs of all time, Hatchetman and Axman.

That aside, there's no reason to break canon to repeat mistakes of the past, especially when Ramming and DFA have already been confirmed for release, features which have been poorly done in the past as well. So I very much doubt that lights will leg hump an Atlas when the act of him walking into you will be more damaging to you then him.

Edited by KageRyuu, 10 June 2012 - 02:40 AM.

[Frostiken]

I doubt melee will ever be in Mechwarrior.

It's just way too clumsy to handle.

[Tincan Nightmare]

Lightfoot, on 10 June 2012 - 02:00 AM, said:

Just make it random with a less than 20% chance and no one would try to exploit it.

I also have to say if they leave Core Breach explosions out of MWO completely the game's RP will be diminished. It wouldn't be in previous MechWarrior games if it didn't exist in MechWarrior lore, even by an optional rulesset. Having 'mechs occasionally go up in a little mushroom cloud reinforces the roleplay of being on a battlefield of the far future and piloting a futuristic giant robot walking tank, the battlemech.

By the way MW3 did have great Core Breaches, they even left craters in the ground, but they were left out of multiplayer. I suppose because players could cause one by alpha-striking when already at high temperature. However, you just make a Core breach a random chance event and no one will try to exploit it.

How is it roleplaying to have a mech go nuclear and explode? Most people would not want to pilot a machine that when destroyed would have a 20 percent chance of killing you even if you successfully ejected, as well as cratering the landscape and possible killing your teammates if they happen to be to close. Except for House Kurita, not to many mechwarriors would want to be the equivalent of walking potential nuclear bombs. And would any force commit mechs to a city if there was a 20 percent chance of wiping out city blocks for each unit destroyed, wether enemy or friendly? Considering how countless times it has been explained in the BT lore that mech engines don't go nuclear, how is it a roleplaying failure if they stay true to this in MWO?

[Frostiken]

Tincan Nightmare, on 10 June 2012 - 03:02 AM, said:

Except for House Kurita, not to many mechwarriors would want to be the equivalent of walking potential nuclear bombs.

Oh irony

[CCC Dober]

Tricky question. I'd prolly vote to make splash damage conditional.

If the Mech carries ammo (exception: small caliber guns) -> give it a chance to explode, cause splash damage and a heat spike in the vicinity.
If the Mech doesn't carry ammo -> make it burn and cause a heat spike in the vicinity.

[Lightfoot]

Tincan Nightmare, on 10 June 2012 - 03:02 AM, said:

How is it roleplaying to have a mech go nuclear and explode? Most people would not want to pilot a machine that when destroyed would have a 20 percent chance of killing you even if you successfully ejected, as well as cratering the landscape and possible killing your teammates if they happen to be to close. Except for House Kurita, not to many mechwarriors would want to be the equivalent of walking potential nuclear bombs. And would any force commit mechs to a city if there was a 20 percent chance of wiping out city blocks for each unit destroyed, wether enemy or friendly? Considering how countless times it has been explained in the BT lore that mech engines don't go nuclear, how is it a roleplaying failure if they stay true to this in MWO?

Core Breaches are a famous part of the MechWarrior gaming lore at this point having been utilized to promote the interactive game for many interations. So it has become part of the iconic roleplay now. It's one of the first things you expect when watching a MechWarrior intro. Roleplay is not confined to good things that happen to players or things under the players control. Quite often the most reinforcing elements of roleplay are those beyond the players control. And only a TT player would know Core Breaches were only canon by an alternate rulesset.

Also, I am not sure a Core Breach would level a city block. In the vids they don't, but then again wouldn't 'mechs fighting in a city cause high collateral damage? Stray SRMs and AC20 rounds, etc.

Edited by Lightfoot, 10 June 2012 - 03:31 AM.

[Krubarax]

Well from reading through this entire thread of massive lols, it is now obvious to me that some players demand big explosions to enjoy a game, while others lean more towards logic and some degree of realism.

It is also obvious that some people hold MW4 as the holy grail of all games, and should clearly stick to playing it, if its such an example of game perfection and balance.

[mercenarie]

And that's how I imagine the mech explosion

[Souske Sagara]

Engine explosions by canon are super rare, and usually done by intentional sabotage, so I would honestly like to see it skipped. Plus it also gets used as a last ditch or dirty trick tactic by ***** who think its worth paying the repair bills on a light mech to nuke a heavy.

[Shootanoob]

At least Ammo stored in an exploding Mech should affect bystanders - based on how loaded the Mech was as it went BOOM!

As for blue fire damage = on, yes of course it is needed!

[CCC Dober]

@merc
That intro was a perfect demonstration of Arrow IV ownage. But it definitely looked like the poor Shadow Cat got ammo racked.