359 replies to this topic

[Wintersdark]

Modo44, on 05 July 2013 - 02:33 AM, said:

No. The idea is for heavy mechs to not be able to get through some routes, period. 10% would still allow any "pro sniper" to go up the biggest mountain, just getting a few moments later.

You do understand that all mechs stop at 45 degrees right? Heavier mechs get slowed more, but mech size has no impact on the slope they can scale.

[Xenok]

Current System sucks, its that simple.

* Dont have mechs behave like a tank. Things with legs can climb much better.
* Dont have Jump jets have only versicle thrust, they can have hydraulics and/or angle brackets to have some forward, or adjustable thrust.

The basic concept of slowing down when climbing/decending is a good one to add but do it in a way that works, not universal 45 degree angle every is nurfed.

Suggestions
All numbers in these suggestion are purely hypathetical and could be changed to whatever data says is more appropriate.

1. Make Climb a feature of each mech. Create break points every 10 degrees of slope, each breakpoints reduces movement by 8%. Add in a pilot skill that can reduce this reduction to 2%, then have every mech have +2 to -2% variance at each grade step. This would mean that at 40 degrees one mech may be 16% faster than another relative to climbing speed. This would add more variation to mechs and make the game more interesting.

2. Give each mech a maximum grade it can climb, this could also be increased with pilot skills.

3. Give jump jets the ability to provide different angles of thrust. The exact angles available would very by mech, and again be able to be increased by pilot skills.

This would be much better than the all or nothing aproach at 45 degrees and would add flavor and fun to the game. It would also allow for additional mechanics to use when balancing new mechs.

[Modo44]

Wintersdark, on 05 July 2013 - 10:42 AM, said:

You do understand that all mechs stop at 45 degrees right? Heavier mechs get slowed more, but mech size has no impact on the slope they can scale.

Yes. I also understand that lighter mechs have 1) speed/momentum to run up short but steep slopes and 2) high enough partial speed to wiggle up steep slopes heavier mechs can't.

Edited by Modo44, 05 July 2013 - 12:05 PM.

[Nasinil]

New Movement HEY great stuff another step in the wrong direction. canyons suxx big time and having no jump jets is getting useless on some maps great job. I think they really try hard to ruin this game.

[Neokenfu]

Question: Why would you make a game stopping "feature" like this that causes you to lose 66% of your speed when traversing a "pebble." To say that I'm pissed would be vastly understating how freaking pissed I am. Go into the cave on forest colony and see what happens!

Collision detection and clipping have NEVER been this game's strong point! To base mech life or death(you lose 66% of your speed you die) off of easily the weakest parts of the code/engine is a huge mistake.

It might not have been ideal or perfect before but its horrible now. I remember going under an arch on Canyons and watching myself trip over a tiny rock that my human self could easily walk over.

Is you desire to someday have Ewok's attack the mechs with huge logs? Cause right now they could use toothpicks to trip up mechs.

Change that back or severely tweak it. Such a complete example of how the devs "stuff" doesn't stink. Get your freaking clothes back on emporers of MWO!

[Tyr4nt]

Here are some of my observations. I'm fine with slowing a mechs speed while climbing a steep incline. However, this does not stop the faster mechs with jump jets from being able to sprint towards a slope and then propelling them selves upward with JJ's and sliding up the slope. Where my problem lies with the patch is outright stalling a mech at 45°.

The biggest problems I have with it are that several routes/strategies are no longer an option and some that previously were are now only accessible by mechs equipped with JJ's.

There's the overall effect on maneuverability as well. Such as no longer being able to return to cover behind terrain. Or, being in the middle of a brawl with a mech that's circling you and getting stuck simply because a very small hump in the geometry that exceeds 45°.

My general feeling is that it not just negatively effects my mechs not equipped with JJ's, but it's also somewhat silly. It makes the whole idea of having a "tank with legs" just a worthless novelty; there is no advantage to having "mech" over a traditional tank/APC.

At this stage, I almost feel obligated to only pilot mechs with JJ's just so I'm not as vulnerable or a liability to my team. It honestly feels like this is encouraging poptarts and play styles to exploit high ground especially on Canyon Network and Alpine. I also noticed that on river city there are some structures with 90° walls that we can still climb over because of transparency textures.

My impression is that maybe this feature should stay but the 45° cap should maybe be increased to between 60° and 67°. If it isn't just flat out removed, it should* definitely be adjusted.

Edited by Tyr4nt, 05 July 2013 - 04:24 PM.

[LackofCertainty]

VagGR, on 04 July 2013 - 07:39 AM, said:

i really dont want to doubt anyone here...but honestly i have never stuck on a car or a rock or a pebble or a crater or anything so far...at least not to a full stop...i actually like the new movement system..yes if i run straight on a cliff side it will stop me but thats what its supposed to be..

a tuning pass is needed obviously as so many people keep reporting issues, paths need to more obvious and maybe the 45 angle needs to to go up a bit like 50 or 60... but its overall a good change...

Pretty much this. The maps need to be smoothed out a bit, but on maps with less garbage, I enjoy how the game plays now much more.

I really like how forest colony plays with the changes, specifically. It's already pretty smooth, and the places you aren't going to be able to climb (the ridges) are obvious to the player. It makes the big open areas a lot scarier to charge out into, but at the same time the inaccessible ridges funnels people into the open areas more. Kinda feels like a Trench warfare map now, with no man's land in the middle and the ridges for cover.

[ManusDei]

With the new sloping system the game has changed from MWO to TWO ...Terrain Warrior Online. We can no longer concentrate on the battle. Rather we are forced to concentrate on looking at our feet to make sure we don't run into pebbles, rocks, and slopes over 45 degrees. What a game changer it certainly is. More realistic? ..depends on who you talk to. More fun? Certainly not.

The maps have certainly gotten a lot smaller with the new sloping system. I wonder just how small they are going to be when 12 man drops start. Imagine 12 mechs in the same small flat areas of the map....shooting ducks in a barrel. No more use of terrain for cover, just camp the flat spots on the map and set a trap. Not very well thought out.

Edited by ManusDei, 05 July 2013 - 04:45 PM.

[LastPaladin]

Modo44, on 05 July 2013 - 02:33 AM, said:

10% would still allow any "pro sniper" to go up the biggest mountain, just getting a few moments later.

"Pro snipers" just adapt and use jumpjets to get up those slopes, and now even fewer mechs can follow them up there to chase them off. It's pretty funny sniping from a hill on forest colony, having a full view of the enemy team trying to approach, with a nice tower to step behind to block missiles, and the best the enemy can do is send a jenner up to try and dislodge you

[Dolomite]

I like the concept but hate the implementation.

[Dolomite]

/sarcasm on

How about making mechs slow down when they run into trees? They should also slow down in water that is more than 10% of their height. Oooo ooo ooo....direct sunlight should add to cumulative heat. Also the missile boats should run faster the more the fire since the ammo weight load has decreased. Or any non energy based mech for that matter. And why don't mechs speed up when going down more than a 45 degree incline? Shouldn't they fall down if their forward velocity exceeded the maximum speed of the engine for that particular configuration? One legged mechs shouldnt be able to traverse anything but level ground.

things to ponder....

/sarcasm off

[Seddrik]

The current movement system is aweful.

Not just stumbling bumbling stopping over everything, but the incline full stop business makes the game tedious and boringly shoves us into a rat maze, trench warrior mode.

Combine this with collision issues... and you have stupid situations. Run into a mech (friend or foe) and u warp thru, behind, somewhere... can't tell where. Then die from being shot... ok?

Also I have seen several times where people get shot by the enemy and yet they die form killing themselves. Evidently terrain issues are so bad now that if u bump the ground from the shake of being hit you take more damage.......

And how many times do we have to touch a wall and come to a complete stop? A faster mech in the maps we have constantly is touching something. River city night for example... and about 20 times I full stopped. half of them in front of enemy. I mean... really? This just cannot work. This must change. It is just infuriating. No longer is the game about skill, speed, flannking, aiming... its now... where can I even walk so as not to get stupidly stopped standing stock still in front of the enemy.


PGI in "fixing" terrain ruined it.

Edited by Seddrik, 05 July 2013 - 07:00 PM.

[FREDtheDEAD]

Dolomite, on 05 July 2013 - 06:18 PM, said:

/sarcasm on

How about making mechs slow down when they run into trees? They should also slow down in water that is more than 10% of their height. Oooo ooo ooo....direct sunlight should add to cumulative heat. Also the missile boats should run faster the more the fire since the ammo weight load has decreased. Or any non energy based mech for that matter. And why don't mechs speed up when going down more than a 45 degree incline? Shouldn't they fall down if their forward velocity exceeded the maximum speed of the engine for that particular configuration? One legged mechs shouldnt be able to traverse anything but level ground.

things to ponder....

/sarcasm off

Yes, yes: I like the way you think!

Seriously, any attempt to bring real physics into this would be an improvement.

[RedwoodCoast]

hate that you are brining tank like warfare mechanics to a robot game. hate hate hate it.

[ravineh]

after playing some more i don't feel like praising it anymore
You walk up with some heavy and assault to a small or a little hill and BOOM u stop like on an invisible wall.
New player experiencing it will think just that, that the map is so ****** done that there are invisible walls everywhere.
Just slowing the heavier classes a lot while climbing will feel just so more natural.
If an atlas wants to climb 60% wall for 5min, let him do it with 5km/h

[MrMadguy]

You know. Prior to this patch Turmaline was for me something like 10 minutes of running some where and them being killed in 10 seconds, so I even started to just instant leave this map not to waste my time at some point. And now Canyon, which was very interesing map for me before, became such map too.

I understand, that some maps should have some quirks. I.e. Turmaline is for snipers and Canyon was intended to be for JJers. Ok. Snipers and JJer are happy now. But what other players are supposed to do? It's ok for map to have some unique features, but it should not be totally unplayable for some mech variants. For example, it should be easier to climb uphills with JJ in Canyon, but it's really should not be totally imposible to do it without JJs.

P.S. Is this forum really lags so much or it's CIA scanning my traffic?

Edited by MrMadguy, 06 July 2013 - 02:32 AM.

[egreSS]

Like it -

but the stopslope for assault needs some tweaking. Highlanders and Victors jump jetting straight up on canyon network is unintentionally funny.

[Sillen]

I just got stuck on a pebble and killed in a storm of LRM. Rather than say what I think and get banned, I will just say BAD BAD BAD!

Unfortunately I didn't just pay for founders long ago, i've just paid for Phoenix on the basis of long dimmed memory of MW1 (Shadow, Locust, BM).

BF4 is on the way and as I switched from BF to MWO in Sept last year, looks like I'm going back to BF this year 'cause latest developments are really 'challanging'.

[Kevin English Bab]

Having a limit to the steepness of a hill that a mech can climb is not such a silly idea as it sounds but having that limit at 45. IS.

Instead of a 45. incline just stoping you dead out right work on what would be a good decent limit as 45. is just stupid as ALL of the maps have these sasive huge hills and mountains in them, with now makes navigating the maps a nightmare.

say Light mechs can speed about the map and traverse most of the terrain (within reason of course) witch gives them a tactical advantage over other weight class mechs and that in its self can make battles interesting and it makes sense for a example.

You in a Commander running at 97kph and you got a Quickdraw barreling after you at around 89kph your getting pretty shot up and you need to escape but you cant break the distence fast enough, so you make a break for the mound in front of you that you with your Lighter weight can run streight over the top of the hill but the Quickdraw cant make it over and has to go around thus giving you the chance you need to escape and regroup with your Lance mates.

This mechanic is broken beyond sense at the moment to the point where a simple peebble or door step stops you dead and makes Jump Jets all the more prominent, but guess what not all mechs have JJs and perhaps if you going to implement a feature that makes it all more important, in this case Jump Jets then PERHAPS you should put all effort into making sure that said Jump Jets WORK as they are supposed too instead of being broken and not doing enough.

45. is no good it needs to be a steeper incline to STOP you, instead a better idea would be to give weight class mechs a speed reduction instead based on weight class, such as Assaults and Heavy have a 50% speed reduction Mediums a 25% and Lights a 15%

That way steep and rough terrain gives you a hazard and impeeds mobility and not outright deying you accses to 80% of the map for every map in the game and will give interesting tactical advantages/disadvantages in matches.

Edited by Kevin English Bab, 06 July 2013 - 05:48 AM.

[Hekalite]

I can see why people are upset, but overall I like the change. I like the fact that not every mech is well suited to every map/situation (even if it is frustrating some times). I do think smaller slopes like tiny craters on tourmaline should not have an impact on movement. Basically, if the obstacle can be stepped over it really isn't an obstacle.