161 replies to this topic

[Villz]

A letter in regard to PGI involvement with the competitive community on topic of gameplay, design, and balance.

To any relevant PGI, IGP employee's.

Its obvious that PGI wishes to have community involvement as demonstrated by regular twitter interaction and community streams and events mainly with the NGNG team. However I strongly believe that due to the small size of the active competitive community there is a rather unique opportunity for PGI to grasp onto, In that the small community is for the most part very passionate about the battletech IP and the community seems to be rather more mature and older by average than the usual online game.

I would have total minimal effort to organize a few of the articulate most active and top players from every competitive unit from Steel Jag , KaoS , DV8 , Snow Ravens, Paragon etc etc. To demonstrate in game and over voice com's either skype, TS, Ventrillo, etc. All the issues that seem to be negatively effecting game play from the more casual level right up unto the top teir of competitive gameplay.

I really think this type of interaction as public or private (most likely) would be of 100x the benefit to PGI , IGP , and all relevant investors than the current systems in place.

Many of the competitive units have stopped paying on the back of balance changes being in their opinion too slow for a game in BETA. I believe with such a passionate community would rally behind any and all efforts made by the development team to even hear our idea's and feedback could at least inspire an idea for the betterment of the experience for all players. Which in turn leads to a more active community. And bottom line more profit and turn over for the PGI, IGP team.

Despite some of us displaying frustration on the forum towards whatever at the time is killing us. And going ad hominem out of the anger generated from such a feeling of dissonance with the situation. The community has a lot to offer PGI, IGP if they are prepared to engage the individuals who understand the experience on the deeper levels of the meta and game functionality.

Please do not hesitate to contact me on the comstar NA server (Idling in the AFK subchannel at all times in the DV8 channel if not playing) We could schedule any of this at anytime that was suited to the schedule of the development team. Drop in groups while we chat sometime thank you.



DV8 loves dropping with PGI , IGP

EDIT:
Alternate contact through this forum or via registered game mail is also fine.

Edited by Villz, 04 July 2013 - 05:43 AM.

[Mongoose Trueborn]

This thread has totally blown up. NJ Villz.

The biggest argument that came up is that the best players are not the majority of the game and will not have an opinion that is better than what the majority think.

To that I say, if you want to learn how to play basketball, do you want to learn from average Joe that probably has no idea about proper technique let alone enough game time to fully understand the game or, do you go to Michael Jordan.

Anyone that thinks that the better players don't know more about the game are clearly suffering from the Dunning-Kruger effect. http://en.wikipedia....93Kruger_effect

Edited by Mongoose Trueborn, 04 July 2013 - 10:57 AM.

[RG Notch]

I for one welcome the rule of our "competitive" overlords!

[Chavette]

I see Ryan led the charge, shielding shots with his own body.

I made a rant on this myself today about tournaments that would help this effort getting hidden, we have a whole forum section for the simplest possible scoreboard based "official tournaments", but they cant be assed to house better made, player ran ones, in a visible place or make a subsection under the official ones.

http://mwomercs.com/...ur-own-players/

Edited by Chavette, 04 July 2013 - 06:16 AM.

[Nubsternator]

This is indeed something that would benefit as the heart of these issues would be addressed without all the hate you see in the forums. People have good ideas and good points to make, you just need to see past the emotion.

[MaddMaxx]

Just a couple issues with the OP.

Quote

"In that the small community is for the most part very passionate about the battletech IP"

Then this.

Quote

"Many of the competitive units have stopped paying on the back of balance changes being in their opinion too slow for a game in BETA."

So the passionate are also a very impatient bunch as well? I think that sends a very poor and mixed message to the Dev team.

Louis Pasture was also passionate. Thank God he was not also as impatient as the TOP tier MechWarriors of today.

[Villz]

MaddMaxx, on 04 July 2013 - 06:15 AM, said:

Just a couple issues with the OP.



Then this.




So the passionate are also a very impatient bunch as well? I think that sends a very poor and mixed message to the Dev team.

Louis Pasture was also passionate. Thank God he was not also as impatient as the TOP tier MechWarriors of today.

No those most passionate however tend to be the most frustrated. Its like watching a best friend or wife do something you know is wrong. You want to help but can't.

[HRR Mary]

Pretty much spot on.

Teams that have been playing competitively for the past decade (or more) have a real insight. I've played with and against Snow Raven (for exemple), and they are a tremendous bunch of skilled pilots, who can point out the merits and flaws on the actual game, and avoid repeating MW3-MW4-Mektek mistakes.

I'm sure my team (HRR Insanity, Roland, Zorak Ramone...) would also participate, even if most of us have stopped playing for the past 6 months, because they love the franchise.

[Kunae]

MaddMaxx, on 04 July 2013 - 06:15 AM, said:

So the passionate are also a very impatient bunch as well?

Pretty much, yep.

It goes hand in hand. When you see the lethargy with which PGI is "fixing" things, it becomes very frustrating.

The more passionate you are about something, the more impatient you become when glaring issues remain unresolved.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

So does this involve you guys trying to keep the current boating PPC meta, or fixing it?

Just because it's not very clear, and all the high end teams use it so much (I'm not sure whether it's because they enjoy it or feel it's necessary).

[Kunae]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 04 July 2013 - 06:22 AM, said:

So does this involve you guys trying to keep the current boating PPC meta, or fixing it?

Just because it's not very clear, and all the high end teams use it so much (I'm not sure whether it's because they enjoy it or feel it's necessary).

Pft. Snark much?

Competitive players use whatever the current meta is. To do anything less would be consciously gimping yourself.

They know that 6 PPC-stalker, 2 raven-3L matches aren't fun, but you do what you need to do. They've had the most experience with that meta, and thus have a better grasp on it than those, who solo pug for 45 minutes every 3 days.

Edit: Man, can tell I still need to wake up. Had to correct a bunch of grammar crap.

Edited by Kunae, 04 July 2013 - 06:27 AM.

[Villz]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 04 July 2013 - 06:22 AM, said:

So does this involve you guys trying to keep the current boating PPC meta, or fixing it?

Just because it's not very clear, and all the high end teams use it so much (I'm not sure whether it's because they enjoy it or feel it's necessary).

the reason many of the units quit was due to 1 sided meta Brawling OP vs Sniping OP vs LRMs OP etc etc. Balance is all viable aspects of the game. I may find myself often in PPC Gauss boats ala HGN-732 / STK-3F / STK-M these days. However most of my XP was on laser mechs and brawling mechs like atlas's pre-poptart era. If you think that the competitive scene wants 1 dimensional gameplay your clearly very disconnected from the scene

Heres a game from 2 nights ago with me running a 6 Large Laser Stalker.
http://i.imgur.com/y8tSeQW.jpg

Thnx to Writhen and Deforce from KaoS for the games.

Edited by Villz, 04 July 2013 - 06:38 AM.

[Homeless Bill]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 04 July 2013 - 06:22 AM, said:

So does this involve you guys trying to keep the current boating PPC meta, or fixing it?

Just because it's not very clear, and all the high end teams use it so much (I'm not sure whether it's because they enjoy it or feel it's necessary).

This exactly why talking to competitive and high-Elo players matters: they know what's broken because they run it. They know the things that will and will not affect the cheese they run.

While I don't think high-level players are the final authority, games should be balanced around a competitive level of play. If there's not a lot of cheese at the top tiers, there won't be elsewhere either.

[MaddMaxx]

First don't get me wrong. I to know some players are better at games than others. No doubt. But...

If, as the OP states, "many" of the Comp teams have left, then who exactly is left to hold that "Torch of Knowledge" they seem to have dedicated to themselves? Those who used to part of the whole, that has "many" missing now?

How do we determine, without any wiggle room, exactly who these High ELO players really are? No one know their ELO right?

Edited by MaddMaxx, 04 July 2013 - 06:36 AM.

[Villz]

MaddMaxx, on 04 July 2013 - 06:36 AM, said:

First don't get me wrong. I to know some players are better at games than others. No doubt. But...

If, as the OP states, "many" of the Comp teams have left, then who exactly is left to hold that "Torch of Knowledge" they seem to have dedicated to themselves? Those who used to part of the whole, that has "many" missing now?

How do we determine, without any wiggle room, exactly who these High ELO players really are? No one know their ELO right?

Ok i'll make it easy for you.

When u start dropping into games against the same players who always seem to dominate.
Your probably starting to get there.
When it "fails to find match" 2 or 3 times in a row regularly your probably getting there.
When you start getting headshot your probably starting to get there.

All the "High ELO" players know who each other are, Its a small community up the top.

[FactorlanP]

RG Notch, on 04 July 2013 - 06:09 AM, said:

I for one welcome the rule of our "competitive" overlords!

I love how the "competitive" set always seems to think that their opinions are more valuable.

Sometimes, I wish that PGI would ignore the "competitive" know-it-alls enough that they all move on to other games, then PGI can focus on making the game fun for all of us dirty casual players.

[Jonny Taco]

FactorlanP, on 04 July 2013 - 07:10 AM, said:

I love how the "competitive" set always seems to think that their opinions are more valuable.

Sometimes, I wish that PGI would ignore the "competitive" know-it-alls enough that they all move on to other games, then PGI can focus on making the game fun for all of us dirty casual players.

Yeah, this post does not make any sense...

Just in, those "competitive" players that you seem to loath, know a whole **** load more about game play balance than those who pug a few times a week. Failure to understand this means that you're lacking some rather significant cognitive functions.

I'd rather take advice from people that actually know what they are talking about...

You also seem to be under the misguided opinion that a game balanced at the high end will not work for everyone else... I hate to say it, but I believe your opinion, again, is a result of lack luster mental fortitude.

Edited by lartfor, 04 July 2013 - 07:23 AM.

[DrunkDrivin]

FactorlanP, on 04 July 2013 - 07:10 AM, said:

I love how the "competitive" set always seems to think that their opinions are more valuable.

Sometimes, I wish that PGI would ignore the "competitive" know-it-alls enough that they all move on to other games, then PGI can focus on making the game fun for all of us dirty casual players.

I see your point, but I don't think the OP was trying to say we are the lesser. Simply put, more time spent against highly skilled players means knowing what is absolute necessity to win. The disparity between OP and crap weapons are even more apparent at their level. It would be much easier for that crowd to point out when weapons choices far outweigh tactical decisions. If taking PPC's and Gauss erase the fact that everyone is running around without focus firing and aimlessly winning matches, something is terribly wrong.
I, as a casual gamer, would worry if all the changes were dictated by the top tier players. Reason: I don't want to spend my free time researching the best ways to win constantly rather than playing the game. If someone wants a game at that level that is fine, just don't squeeze out the high % of players who are happy with mid-level play for fun with friends.
As for those leaving the game, PGI has more than just weapons balancing problems. Their game play mechanics changes just happening to correspond to a new hero mech or mc item is sickening.

Edit:

lartfor, on 04 July 2013 - 07:18 AM, said:

Yeah, this post does not make any sense...

Just in, those "competitive" players that you seem to loath, know a whole **** load more about game play balance than those who pug a few times a week. Failure to understand this means that you're lacking some rather significant cognitive functions.

I'd rather take advice from people that actually know what they are talking about...

You also seem to be under the misguided opinion that a game balanced at the high end will not work for everyone else... I hate to say it, but I believe your opinion, again, is a result of lack luster mental fortitude.

Wow, assumptions followed by insults. Did your mom not hug you enough?

Edited by DrunkDrivin, 04 July 2013 - 07:27 AM.

[Valore]

I think villz has a point when he says better players get more frustrated. A few reasons:

1. If you're perfectionist, anything going wrong is going to **** you off. So the game having bugs will annoy you.

2. You notice it more. Poor players spray weapons across enemy mechs so usually don't notice if they miss. Good players who are used to having a 90+% hit rate with something like PPCs will NOTICE when their damage drops from around 1K+ a game to 400-600.

3. More competitive players end up in situations where having that last PPC salvo noreg will screw you over royally in an important game. Less competitive players can shrug it off and launch their next drop.

Its not that people who want to compete go berzerk for no reason and come here to QQ. Really, we would rather be doing something more productive.

[Jonny Taco]

DrunkDrivin, on 04 July 2013 - 07:25 AM, said:

Wow, assumptions followed by insults. Did your mom not hug you enough?

I simply pointed out the obvious... If you consider that "insulting" then I feel sorry for you.