161 replies to this topic

[FactorlanP]

Villz, on 04 July 2013 - 10:33 AM, said:

the new battle master is the exact same thing as the highlander with an emphasis on the other side of the mech exact same thing balistic arm 3 energy chest same side. your souution doesn't fix anything tbh just add's more complexity to an already complex game with no real gain.

Tell me again what the solution that you are advocating is?

[Rippthrough]

Olivia Maybach, on 04 July 2013 - 10:28 AM, said:

I don't think you're really any different than anyone else, on that front, which is good. We all want to see game balance lead to "many ways to win".


I didn't get that from them (us?) at all. I believe what they were saying is that "high level competitive" players run the same cheese as the rank and file, because it works. And if that is the case, it doesn't demonstrate a real desire to "fix" the game in any way, unless bumping the number of PPC-boats will somehow communicate that to PGI. And since they are running the same builds as everyone else and focusing on kills (to be competitive) instead of the other facets of the game, they aren't any more qualified to "help" PGI.

I think that's it, anyway. That's what I got out of it.

Right, so to come at it another way, you have the players who are the most skilled with the mechs that 90% of the playerbase is using, being the ones who help show why it's unbalanced. That's not a bad thing is it? People keep saying it won't be relevant to the rest of the userbase, whereas (I'm paraphrasing here so correct me if not) you are indicating that's not true.

And as already stated, they're the also the ones who tend to notice the most the HSR issues, hitbox problems, etc, because the nature of the games tends to mean one shot missing makes a huge difference.
They also tend to be the guys who are very adapative in playstyle to the ruleset - although there are many others - it helps point out issues with suggested fixes very quickly.


edit: And yes, to whoever is suggesting the top players are wanting JJ shake removed so they can go back to poptarting - the good players have no issues at all with jumpsniping at the moment, they don't give a damn about the current shake, all it is doing is making it a nightmare to learn for the new guys.

Edited by Rippthrough, 04 July 2013 - 10:42 AM.

[Chavette]

FactorlanP, on 04 July 2013 - 10:37 AM, said:

Tell me again what the solution that you are advocating is?

That many crosshair situation isn't good because it would destroy arm mounted mechs in favour of single sided hardpoint heavy mechs, like the 733.

I think the PGI idea of many fired in certain time > penatly is a good way, but it doesn't address heatless weapons(other than it should be calculated by an algorithm, over some made up numbers). For this reason, I'd say weapon convergence getting worse depending on the number-, power of and time since the last few weapons fired would be one way to do it.

Edited by Chavette, 04 July 2013 - 10:44 AM.

[Villz]

FactorlanP, on 04 July 2013 - 10:37 AM, said:

Tell me again what the solution that you are advocating is?

I spoke to the topic before on balancing weapons to slow damage so brawls can occur.

Your not going to run a 6 pcc staker if u can only fire twice before the entire team is ontop of u and u get brawled to death.

Slowing damage to allow range to be closed and brawling to occur.

[Mongoose Trueborn]

Chavette, on 04 July 2013 - 08:32 AM, said:

Prime example of the Dunning–Kruger effect.

I bet you beat em all, thats why you know that?

Enjoyed reading about that. I usually just say "ignorance is bliss". It is close enough.

[MaddMaxx]

FactorlanP, on 04 July 2013 - 10:14 AM, said:

What if there was NO convergence of weapons not mounted in the same section of the mech?

What if there was actually a HUD with 5 crosshairs? One for each arm, each side torso, and center torso.

If a pilot alphas, weapons in each location would hit different areas. It might be impossible to get all 5 cross hairs on target at the same time, so some elements of an alpha would miss.

A truly skilled pilot would chain fire and shift his aim point between trigger pulls.

The instant, perfect, pinpoint convergence is the problem.

I believe that it can be solved WITHOUT introducing ANY randomness.

Sadly many new players show up and have issues with the Torso and Legs working independently and have to Lock the Arm reticule to the CT based one. Now you think that having 5 reticules would be a benefit?

It is highly unlikely that yourself and the 400 (random value but keep it small) other players who could deal with that can keep PGI afloat by yourselves.

That idea would be akin to taking a civilian up in an F-14 to 25000 feet, disabling their auto ejection system, telling them "see you on the ground" and then ejecting yourself.

Odds of a good outcome? Same as a 5 reticule system in MWO...

Edited by MaddMaxx, 04 July 2013 - 10:46 AM.

[Whompity]

Rippthrough, on 04 July 2013 - 10:37 AM, said:

Right, so to come at it another way, you have the players who are the most skilled with the mechs that 90% of the playerbase is using, being the ones who help show why it's unbalanced. That's not a bad thing is it? People keep saying it won't be relevant to the rest of the userbase, whereas (I'm paraphrasing here so correct me if not) you are indicating that's not true.

I'm not saying it's NOT relevant. I'm saying it's no MORE relevant. How many threads have we seen started on the subject of "I missed when I was sure I hit" and the like?

The message is being SENT loud and clear by pilots at all skill levels. It isn't just the "competitive" ones that notice these issues or even post about them.

I understand what OP is asking... but that can easily be accomplished by recording video, narrating and sending it to PGI. You don't even have to rack up a high ELO or join a "competitive" outfit to do that. This isn't rocket surgery. I personally don't think it's a matter of PGI not knowing... I think it's just a matter of resources and priorities at this point, as that makes the most sense, to me at least.

[Villz]

Olivia Maybach, on 04 July 2013 - 10:52 AM, said:

I'm not saying it's NOT relevant. I'm saying it's no MORE relevant. How many threads have we seen started on the subject of "I missed when I was sure I hit" and the like?

The message is being SENT loud and clear by pilots at all skill levels. It isn't just the "competitive" ones that notice these issues or even post about them.

I understand what OP is asking... but that can easily be accomplished by recording video, narrating and sending it to PGI. You don't even have to rack up a high ELO or join a "competitive" outfit to do that. This isn't rocket surgery. I personally don't think it's a matter of PGI not knowing... I think it's just a matter of resources and priorities at this point, as that makes the most sense, to me at least.

assuming your assumption is a better assumption because you assumed it?

[Felicitatem Parco]

Several posts were removed from this thread recently, and the paperwork is piling-up... once again, please try to keep the discussion about the Gameplay points in the OP, or feel free to participate in one of the myriad other threads in these fine forums

Edited by Prosperity Park, 04 July 2013 - 10:55 AM.

[Villz]

thank you for your fine work Mr Park

[MaddMaxx]

Mongoose Trueborn, on 04 July 2013 - 10:22 AM, said:

Where did he say that the most passionate people were the most competitive? You connected dots that didn't exist.

This thread doesn't pertain to you. It only affects the devs and skilled players. Troll somewhere else.

The fix isn't making PPC's not fun. The fix is making brawling more fun and effective so that it becomes a risk reward scenario.

The game needs more rock paper scissors.

This, and any, thread that I decide pertains to me, will be ones that do in fact pertain to me.
You don't like that fact, then you may disembark the thread whenever you want. Your as much a Troll as any just for saying that.

He didn't say that nor did I. Read the posts ffs. I stated that the self appointed Leet also seem rather impatient. I like that you are trying to help a buddy out though. Just try harder next time ok.

We will let the Dev decide who these Skilled players are, not you or other who think they know. Thanks.

[Villz]

MaddMaxx, on 04 July 2013 - 10:58 AM, said:

This, and any, thread that I decide pertains to me, will be ones that do in fact pertain to me.
You don't like that fact, then you may disembark the thread whenever you want. Your as much a Troll as any just for saying that.

He didn't say that nor did I. Read the posts ffs. I stated that the self appointed Leet also seem rather impatient. I like that you are trying to help a buddy out though. Just try harder next time ok.

We will let the Dev decide who these Skilled players are, not you or other who think they know. Thanks.

what are you even saying that your allowed to be heard to say nothing??

[MaddMaxx]

FactorlanP, on 04 July 2013 - 10:23 AM, said:

I hope you didn't intend to say that only the guys who compete in the leagues are "skilled".

There are quite a few of us not actively engaged in League play, who aren't total louts.

And yet somehow I am a Troll in all this mess? wtf!

[Whompity]

Villz, on 04 July 2013 - 10:54 AM, said:

assuming your assumption is a better assumption because you assumed it?

Which part? The part about there being tons of threads already on faulty HRS (for one example) or the part where EXPLICITLY stated "to me at least" which yes, would be an assumption, as I believe I clearly stated.

The thread is full of assumptions and opinions, yours included. I don't think that is being debated, here.

Edited by Olivia Maybach, 04 July 2013 - 11:02 AM.

[Mongoose Trueborn]

FactorlanP, on 04 July 2013 - 10:23 AM, said:

I hope you didn't intend to say that only the guys who compete in the leagues are "skilled".

There are quite a few of us not actively engaged in League play, who aren't total louts.

I didn't say anything about league play. You guys love to add stuff that doesn't exist. Are you related to my wife?

[Z0MBIE Y0SHI]

This thread is smashing.

[Villz]

Olivia Maybach, on 04 July 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:

Which part? The part about there being tons of threads already on faulty HRS (for one example) or the part where EXPLICITLY stated "to me at least" which yes, would be an assumption, as I believe I clearly stated.

Assuming its the HSR system causing faulty hit rego and perhaps not bugged code in relation to server load on their end?
Assuming you know what all pilots recognize.
Assuming you know the difference between all pilots.

[Whompity]

Villz, on 04 July 2013 - 11:04 AM, said:

Assuming its the HSR system causing faulty hit rego and perhaps not bugged code in relation to server load on their end?
Assuming you know what all pilots recognize.
Assuming you know the difference between all pilots.

All of that and more. If we're not privy to the code, that's all we're doing at this point. Assuming, guessing and offering opinions.

In the end, this particular argument boils down to:

"Do I trust Villz to properly represent what needs to be fixed in this game?"

The answer is...

"No. I don't know Villz. No more than I know anyone else here."

Edited by Olivia Maybach, 04 July 2013 - 11:09 AM.

[RG Notch]

Villz, on 04 July 2013 - 10:57 AM, said:

thank you for your fine work Mr Park

You see our "competitive" overlords will be gentle masters. They know what's best for the game and they are damn well going to tell us what it is. If one serves well,one will be praised and thanked. Just don't go around intimating that their opinion isn't worth more than yours. IF you don't have the proper Elo, you will invoke their mighty justified wrath. And woe unto you then. Woe indeed!
There are ways to offer to improve the game that don't make you sound like an elitist jerk. Perhaps one day these competitive folks might use some. If one is TRULY interested in a direct line with the devs, why not try a private avenue, what in reality does an open letter on the public forums do to help accomplish that? If the excuse is you've tried the private route and go no response, well isn't the message clear? And if so what would a public request accomplish?

[MaddMaxx]

Villz, on 04 July 2013 - 10:29 AM, said:

Hard point restrictions are an interesting way to balance mech's without limiting skill.

No real way to tell though without a detailed Chassis by Chassis layout of all the current Mechs, including the 12 Mechs to come.

Perhaps someone would be up to that challenge and let the Community have a look? I would bow out myself, as I have seen a system like that and it didn't work out so well that time.

Second time the charm perhaps though.