132 replies to this topic

[ICEFANG13]

Its too effective against all tactics (I guess not long range sniping, woopeee) and that's why almost everyone wants a least a nerf to it.

[Rayah]

I don't know if it's only because I pilot Medium and Heavy mechs at the moment, but I have no grief with the seismic sensor.

I do not have it either.

[Lindonius]

I must say I'm feeling really rather shat on myself when I'm in my Death's Knell. I used to love playing ring around the rosey with assaults and a convenient building. Hit - Run round building - either loop all the way round or stop and double back - rinse and repeat. Stupid dumb Atlases and Stalkers could never predict where I was going and I had the run of their bright red rumps.

Not anymore. Now Mr Atlas looks at his seismic, sees EXACTLY where I am and when I'm gonna pop out from behind the building and in 3.....2.......1........POP GOES THE COMMANDO!

Piloting a light is riding on the edge. In the world of 4 PPC Stalkers and AC40 Jaegers ONE HIT means insta-death, so you can't afford to make even ONE mistake. I would have thought that this would be punishment enough for those that choose to pilot lights but oh no it seems that's not enough for PGI and so now we have the insta-light swat-O-meter as well.

[Hyperlynx]

Void Angel, on 10 July 2013 - 05:17 PM, said:

Seismic sensors are a fun module which was present in canon and asked for by people in the player base. It's not a totally gamebreaking system either. Also, while I do think of myself as being a good pilot "superior piloting skill" isn't something we can claim as a characteristic of the weight class. Mobility, yes; "I'm a better pilot than those other guys," not so much. Consider that one of my other favorite chassis is an Atlas. =)

So, all that being said, I think that Seismic Sensor is a good module that adds a really fun toy to the game - it's just too effective against a single weight class in its current implementation, and I'd like to see it changed.

It absolutely IS game breaking, and I'm a Cataphract/Hunchback pilot. Flanking is now suicide, even for heavies. All seismic does is reinforce sniper wars as the only valid tactic.

[redlance]

Void Angel, on 10 July 2013 - 05:17 PM, said:

Seismic sensors are a fun module which was present in canon and asked for by people in the player base. It's not a totally gamebreaking system either. Also, while I do think of myself as being a good pilot "superior piloting skill" isn't something we can claim as a characteristic of the weight class. Mobility, yes; "I'm a better pilot than those other guys," not so much. Consider that one of my other favorite chassis is an Atlas. =)

So, all that being said, I think that Seismic Sensor is a good module that adds a really fun toy to the game - it's just too effective against a single weight class in its current implementation, and I'd like to see it changed.

i agree with you here. what i meant by "superior skill" is the many hours of training i put in with my scout wingman on tag teaming an assault, or harassing a heavy weight long enough to keep their guns off of the front line. for two lights to take down an assault it takes planning, skill, and thoughtful maneuvering. it took considerably more specialized training to accomplish that level of tactical presence than any other "class" I've ever played.

[Jman5]

It's even worse in mediums like the hunchback which are too slow to escape easily and too weak to take many hits.

My suggestion for Seismic is to base detection on Chassis Type and Throttle:

• Lights: Detected above 90% throttle
  
• Medium: Detected above 80% throttle
  
• Heavy: Detected above 70% throttle
  
• Assault: Detected above 60% throttle

You can set throttle by percentage using the num-keys so it's pretty easy to gauge whether you're detectable or not. With this set up, it allows player to sneak past defenses at a slower but undetectable pace giving your counterplay some downside. This also prevents mechs from triggering seismic every time they shuffle their feet slightly.

[Training Instructor]

It should be less effective when there are tons of mechs making noise, and that's about it.

Sorry guys, 30 ton war machines are easily felt and heard. They're not ninjas. I say this having mastered the spider and still frequently playing it.

I've been on light infantry field exercises that featured a few M1A2 Abrams tanks, and any time they were in the area, you could feel it and hear it.

[FupDup]

Training Instructor, on 10 July 2013 - 08:36 PM, said:

It should be less effective when there are tons of mechs making noise, and that's about it.

Sorry guys, 30 ton war machines are easily felt and heard. They're not ninjas. I say this having mastered the spider and still frequently playing it.

I've been on light infantry field exercises that featured a few M1A2 Abrams tanks, and any time they were in the area, you could feel it and hear it.

[Void Angel]

Lindonius, on 10 July 2013 - 05:49 PM, said:

I must say I'm feeling really rather shat on myself when I'm in my Death's Knell. I used to love playing ring around the rosey with assaults and a convenient building. Hit - Run round building - either loop all the way round or stop and double back - rinse and repeat. Stupid dumb Atlases and Stalkers could never predict where I was going and I had the run of their bright red rumps.

Not anymore. Now Mr Atlas looks at his seismic, sees EXACTLY where I am and when I'm gonna pop out from behind the building and in 3.....2.......1........POP GOES THE COMMANDO!

Piloting a light is riding on the edge. In the world of 4 PPC Stalkers and AC40 Jaegers ONE HIT means insta-death, so you can't afford to make even ONE mistake. I would have thought that this would be punishment enough for those that choose to pilot lights but oh no it seems that's not enough for PGI and so now we have the insta-light swat-O-meter as well.

Which necessitates your not popping out from the building - you have to break contact and re-engage, which is a huge tactical disadvantage. But it's not a game-breaking thing, particularly since many players I see are obviously not using the module - it isn't ubiquitous. I've also been the guy shooting at lights in my Atlas and Cataphract; it's harder to hit you than you may realize, unless you're doing predictable things, like the Newbie Circle Strafe. Which of course brings us back to the tactical disadvantage of having your enemy know precisely where you are at close quarters.

All in all, I doubt this module is acting precisely as it should, and I'm confident that PGI will fix it. I also have found personally (solo dropping several matches with the module on my Spider) that while it is unnecessarily hard on Lights (to the point of frustration,) the Seismic Sensor as used today isn't powerful and/or common enough to make Lights unplayable - but the potential to do so is there if more people begin using them.

[Jman5]

Training Instructor, on 10 July 2013 - 08:36 PM, said:

It should be less effective when there are tons of mechs making noise, and that's about it.

Sorry guys, 30 ton war machines are easily felt and heard. They're not ninjas. I say this having mastered the spider and still frequently playing it.

I've been on light infantry field exercises that featured a few M1A2 Abrams tanks, and any time they were in the area, you could feel it and hear it.

There are only two driving factors in game design. Is the feature fun, and is the feature balanced? Seismic Fails both tests.

Real life can go hop on a unicorn and ride a rainbow out of here because it's the last thing that should drive a feature's design.

Void Angel, on 10 July 2013 - 08:42 PM, said:

But it's not a game-breaking thing, particularly since many players I see are obviously not using the module - it isn't ubiquitous.

Unfortunately this is a problem that will only get worse with time as more and more people unlock and equip it.

Edited by Jman5, 10 July 2013 - 08:54 PM.

[Stoicblitzer]

Jman5, on 10 July 2013 - 08:53 PM, said:

Real life can go hop on a unicorn

my first mental image was a guy sitting on the unicorn's horn. wtf

[Insidious Johnson]

Does ECM affect seismic sensors? If yes, to what extent, if not... why the hell not?

[Void Angel]

ECM affects sensor range and C³ links, not modules directly. Since the module is literally feeling the ground go "thump," ECM wouldn't reasonably be expected to affect that.

[Deathlike]

Stoicblitzer, on 10 July 2013 - 09:00 PM, said:

my first mental image was a guy sitting on the unicorn's horn. wtf

He made a pointed argument after all.

[Ken Fury]

Fit ER PPC (s) on your lights, and you never need to get into seismic range again. Problem solved

[Theronlas]

Personally I think that the effectiveness of the sensor should be tied to the weight of the mech it is mounted on and the speed you are moving. Makes sense, much harder to hear/feel the 25t light sneaking up behind you if you are trundling along at full speed in an atlas.

Though it is really not a huge issue IMO, you need to break contact in a light (get more than 300m away and wait a sec, they usually assume you have run for it) but thats about it.

[One Medic Army]

Mt preferences on what mechs to run are Medium>Light>Heavy>Assault.
I tried running my Jenner-D tonight, to make some CBills.
I really tried running it, and I had to quit after 4 matches.

Having no weapons that really worked outside the range of Seismic, facing a bunch of high-alpha boats, repeatedly being half-killed in a single shot the second I actually engaged the enemy.
I won one match for my team, I ran around capping on Conquest on Alpine (because seriously, screw trying to fight assaults on alpine in a light). I got barely more CBills for that (last one on my team alive, close cap-win) than I got for dying with ~50dmg.

Lights are dead outside of organized teams (either 4 or 8).

[Johnny Reb]

Void Angel, on 10 July 2013 - 03:19 PM, said:

Much of what I'm about to say was pointed out in the initial feedback poll for the Seismic Sensor, but while it's not my intention to merely rehash old discussions, I do feel that a discussion of how Seismic Sensors affect the game now is useful. Now that the dust has settled, as it were, and I'm starting to see the module more often, I can give more comprehensive feedback - and collect other people's opinions as well.

My experience with the sensor boils down to this: With my Atlas, it's a powerful situational awareness tool which allows me to keep tabs on people trying to get into my rear arc. I can see if people are sneaking up on me, or trying to sneak past me for a base cap - or if I'm about to lumber around a corner and into their entire team. It's a fun, and very useful, module.

With my Spider, the Seismic Sensor is a pestilence from heaven, sent down to punish me for my wickedness in choosing a light Battlemech. In combat, being mobile and unpredictable is a large part of what the Spider does. I don't have as many hardpoints as other lights, but I'm very quick and agile. Against anyone with a Seismic sensor, however, I'm always visible - they can see me through walls, they can see me through solid rock... they don't have to play the "which way did the Spider go" game: they know exactly where I am. Sure, I could stand still and disappear from the sensor, but standing still like that is very dangerous for a light - and as soon as I move again, he's got me. Playing against an opponent using this module feels very punishing at times. It's like reverse-ECM, but there's no counter.

The Seismic Sensor is a fun and very useful module - probably the most useful module for any brawler or scout to have. But the range and utility of the module hits lights very hard - and at a time where I understand that many players feel light, fast 'mechs are going the way of the Dodo.

Does anyone else find it frustrating to fight opponents using the Seismic Sensor?

Well if you can see them, assume they can see you! However, I do do think seismic needs a reduction in range.

[Drehl]

everything that could be said has already been said..

seismic is by far the most powerfull module we have. no discussion needed. everybody not taking it is punishing himself.
it removes scouting (lol.. has there ever been real scouting except to see which of the 2 or 3 possible ways the enemy is taking?) almost entirely.
it's completeley killing the harraser gameplay for lights. no surprise effect... no harrasing.. no guerilla warefare.. no effective lights. thats it.

the impact of this thing is worst for lights, mediums and other fast mechs (quickdraw, dragon,...).

I haven't played my jenner for weeks. It's just no fun. Seismic + high alpah meta = instagib with wallhacks for lights.

I already wrote this in an other thread: I don't want to play a ****** and utterly useless pseudo-scout or a braindead capping machine to win matches for my slow high alpha assaults. I want to play a fast and agile harraser that can win every encounter when pilotet properly (clever use of cover and surprise effect). Both is gone now.

Till they fixed the seismic crap... light gameplay is dead for me.

[Lefteye Falconeer]

Seismic is dumbing down the tactical layer of the game.

- It is mandatory to use it. If you are not using it you are gimping yourself.
- It makes line of sight close to irrelevant. For all purposes it is a legalized cheat/wallhack.
- It completely reduces the importance of maneuvering and devise sneaky tactics not just as a light but as a team.

It needs a big huge nerf. It is really hurting the game that badly, no matter how much you don't think it is. Giant robots are still exploding and your PPCs are still pew pewing, but the quality of matches is going down.