67 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

Splitpin, on 11 July 2013 - 03:43 PM, said:

So a Hunchi can have 30 point 6xML alpha, yet a Awesome can't handle a 3xPPC alpha, huh ? And the Awesome being a mech specifically built to be an energy platform. It's just not logical captain. But it is the sort of nonsense you end up with sticking arbitrary patches on top of a dubious system. Surely we can do better than that.

IIRC the cut off for Safe PP Alpha is 3.
Edit: Just reread the 2 PPC limit.

(You are right though, Canon Builds should be the deciding factor. 3 PPCs not 2.)

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 11 July 2013 - 04:09 PM.

[Kahoumono]

While I agree the best solution would be to fix convergence this does stop the worst offenders 4+ weapons boats. I fear we'll be seeing a lot of lrm boats using staggered firing pattern but this is a change for the better until they get a bigger bandaid. I feel like a bad parent rewarding my kid for a half-assed room cleaning cause I am seriously thinking about purchasing the project phoenix package.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

Splitpin, on 11 July 2013 - 03:43 PM, said:

So a Hunchi can have 30 point 6xML alpha, yet a Awesome can't handle a 3xPPC alpha, huh ? And the Awesome being a mech specifically built to be an energy platform. It's just not logical captain. But it is the sort of nonsense you end up with sticking arbitrary patches on top of a dubious system. Surely we can do better than that.

So the Awesome can't handle a big 6 Md Laser alpha?
we are comparing apples and apples right?

On a side note the Aweseome can completely handle a 3 PPC alpha, repeatedly. The fact that there is a slight heat penalty on 1 PPC is going to be completely unnoticable. This will primarily affect 4-6 PPC mechs, and only when fired simultaniously. Of course that limitation wont affect a good pilot who can aim and reliabily hit the same location. I mean it is teh skilled pilots who are complaining, right?

[Donnie Silveray]

A good deal of these changes are fairly good. Still doesn't totally address my annoyance that firing 4 PPCs at once doesn't just outright throw you into overheat instantly. Either way, this is a decent subsystem to make running hot riskier and not punishing balanced builds. If anything I hope that it reduces the proliferation of the PPC and as some say the return of LRMs. With LRMs becoming more prominent, light mechs now have a better role as spotters to suppress said 2PPC Gauss snipers.

[Khobai]

firing 4 ppcs at once should not overheat you instantly. it doesnt in battletech either.

the difference is in battletech they dont all hit the same location. again its a convergence problem. a heat penalty isnt necessary nor even wanted by most players. we just want a convergence fix.

Edited by Khobai, 11 July 2013 - 04:30 PM.

[Donnie Silveray]

Convergence isn't going away or is there a logical, sensible, and doable approach I've heard yet. I want what I shoot to hit where I point with a decent degree of predictability. That's not going away.

As for not in the lore, take this into consideration:

Quote

In its primary configuration, the Warhawk had an impressive arsenal of long range weapons which were centered around four ER PPCs that took advantage of the 'Mech’s Targetting Computer. While unable to fire all of the ER PPCs at once it could use a volley fire strategy to manage its heat.

So not even a Clan mech with their superior heat sinks can withstand a 4 ER PPC blast? There should be a punishment for fielding so many PPCs.

Edited by Donnie Silveray, 11 July 2013 - 04:50 PM.

[XX Sulla XX]

I really do not mind an AC20 and PPC or PPC gause. I think around 30 - 35 pinpoint alpha is fine. Its the 55 alpha like on my 4 ppc and gause atlas that were the problem to me.

[Trauglodyte]

NRP, on 11 July 2013 - 02:43 PM, said:

I couldn't care less about PPCs. What I don't get is why 6 MLs (30 dmg) incur no heat penalty but 3 LLs (27 dmg) will.

Because the second they add the heat nerf to PPCs, people are going to jump on the Lrg Laser train. It is a pre-emptive nerf to prevent the meta change that was surely going to happen and existed before the PPC heat buff.

[Donnie Silveray]

35 still hurts but as you said, it is vastly preferable to the absolutely insane levels of alpha we've had in the past. I'm not going to speculate, but if what some say that LRMs might become prominent again they will cause lights to become viable as they can help spot for launchers and suppress PPC/Gauss build mechs while brawlers move in. Being optimistic, yes, but I do hope the PPC proliferation is at least stemmed next patch.

[Splitpin]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 11 July 2013 - 04:21 PM, said:

This will primarily affect 4-6 PPC mechs, and only when fired simultaniously. Of course that limitation wont affect a good pilot who can aim and reliabily hit the same location. I mean it is teh skilled pilots who are complaining, right?

LOL yes I get and agree with your point, and it's also the point those arguing for a convergence nerf are missing too, it won't be the good pilots who will suffer

Poor old 2xLRM20 Catapult, that really needed a nerf, hmm?

[Trauglodyte]

The LRM nerf is the one that really has me scratching my head. I get the PPC, Lrg Laser, and even the Md Lasers. The AC20 shouldn't really be on there because you can't boat them and, more importantly, they're doing 1 point less heat then the TT value (should be 7 heat per fire instead of 6). But the missiles, as a whole, has me perplexed because I don't get why you just don't say "3+ SRMs incur +x heat", "20+ LRMs incur +heat". Then again, I don't know how they're coding this so what do I really know?

[Angel of Annihilation]

Lugh, on 11 July 2013 - 01:38 PM, said:

I already run this way because it's the maximum efficiency between firepower and sustainability for most of my mechs....

So...yeah...

Honestly mixed builds are typically better and I have been saying it for a while. Most of the time they offer a huge amount of tactical flexibility that boats can't replicate.

[Krivvan]

If you're specifically talking about this build then you don't have to change convergence (which would be an absolutely gigantic change to everything) to make it less effective. Just change the speeds of PPC and Gauss to be different enough.

[Corvus Antaka]

Splitpin, on 11 July 2013 - 03:43 PM, said:

So a Hunchi can have 30 point 6xML alpha, yet a Awesome can't handle a 3xPPC alpha, huh ? And the Awesome being a mech specifically built to be an energy platform. It's just not logical captain. But it is the sort of nonsense you end up with sticking arbitrary patches on top of a dubious system. Surely we can do better than that.

except the hunchies alpha only has a range of 270m before damage starts falling off vs 810 for the ERPPC.

[Jaguar Prime]

Viktor Drake, on 11 July 2013 - 06:15 PM, said:

Honestly mixed builds are typically better and I have been saying it for a while. Most of the time they offer a huge amount of tactical flexibility that boats can't replicate.

Roflmao

[The Strange]

Rashhaverak, on 11 July 2013 - 02:13 PM, said:

I don't see how the 2PPC/gauss build is that much of a problem.

Is the gauss rifle so OP that it should not be combined with any other weapon? Or is it that 2PPCs is so OP that it should not be able to be combined? Or is there some following that thinks that there should be no sniping what-so-ever? Snipers should only be able to fire a maximum of 20 points in any one shot?

I don't know about the rest of you, but it is the 60 point one-shots that I have a problem with. Two PPCs and a gauss rifle is hardly what I would call "boating".

Given that a standard Alpha strike on a jenner is 30 points, I don't really understand how a 35 point alpha on a heavy or assault mech is that overpowered.

It has more to do with the fact that a Jenner has to get in to around 400m to use his 30 point alpha, while the assaults can do it from over 1500m.

[Skyfaller]

Mister Blastman, on 11 July 2013 - 01:29 PM, said:

They just don't get it. Or maybe they do and they are lazy.

Convergence is and has been the problem ever since closed beta started an entire year ago.

Its convergence and the DHS bonus to the engine. Those 2 are what make the game fail as it is.

[scJazz]

I read the smoke signals early myself and my CTF-3D has been sporting that config for 2 weeks now. The silence, plus Russ's comments, plus moving Homeless Bill's thread, plus insight gleaned from scouring the web regarding PGI management made it perfectly clear that Paul was going to go ahead with his stunningly stupid plan.

[Arrogusss]

In real life.... If you had 3 rifles (two same caliber, bullet, rifle and one different etc.)- Hooked to one trigger- scoped in from different angles at target 250 yards away and Pulled Trigger.......Bang!
All three rounds should hit said target, 2 within milliseconds from eachother and one round hitting a bit later maybe a few hundreths of a second later. ALL THREE ROUNDS should have hit 3 inches maximum of one anther and caused TOTAL DEVASTATION to the target..asumming that Ammunition was quality, equipment was not junk, you calibrated targeting and scope for bullet drop and accounted for wind speed and how that wind affected bullets of different weight and type.. IT GOES ON AND ON AND ON.. Year is 2013.

Fasssssssssssst Forward>>>> YEAR IS 3050
So 1000 years into the future, or technology wise a world Star Wars like...
MY PPCS AND MY GAUSS SHOULD BE HITTING SAID TARGET IN THE SAME MANNER!!!!!!!!!!!!
Convergance to one area of a mech is essentially convergance to a "section" Example: SIDE TORSO. So what is the difference between 3 or 4 inches on a 100 ton Mech? Make a PPC hit a Side Torso and the other hit an upper leg is unbelievable in a world where a Particle projection cannon exists. They just don't seem like they should be that unaccurate, even over distances.
Slowing or increasing the speed of the two weapons to much different speeds would also be unordinary. In a sense it would only make a difference in convergance over long distances. 200m range would still be nearly the same impact.

I am babbling now...
My main point is that everyone Bi$#%$ing about damage and then convergance as their backup argument... it's just all BS really. Especially if you are talking about a whole whopping 35dmg.
These weapons are working as intended.

Edited by Arrogusss, 11 July 2013 - 08:04 PM.

[topgun505]

Victors? Yes. Highlanders? Yes. Misery? Not so much. No JJ means a pain in the arse to traverse terrain. Why hassle with that when there are other platforms that will do the same thing and not get stuck on a random rock? The Phract 3D will likely make a comeback as well.

Sybreed, on 11 July 2013 - 01:23 PM, said:

And instead of Stalkers plaguing the fields, it'll be Victors, Miseries and Highlanders. This shows that the real culprit, the real villain that is making balance impossible is convergence.

Also, the Awesome will remain a tier F mech as long as a hardpoint rework isn't implemented.

Let's hope they use the test servers to test these ideas, even if they're against it at first.