84 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

Quote

This game is based on battletech, and it is a game based on limits

Again. light mechs will still be terrible even if you force them into games. Tonnage limits dont fix the problem. The problem is that light mechs are BAAAAD and no one WANTS to play them. Fixing light mechs and giving them a strong non-combat role in the game would be enough to get people to play them.

Edited by Khobai, 12 July 2013 - 02:45 PM.

[Braggart]

Joseph Mallan, on 12 July 2013 - 02:37 PM, said:

On the contrary. You wanna play a futuristic war game but don't want to abide by the rules of combat. Rule #1 Combat Isn't Fair! I have never heard so much whining in my life. I choose to drop with with 7 or 11 other players who do not coordinate before a drop and I expect the game to make the drop even. Its random. I have been hearing this tripe for a year and I still don't get it. If I get my butt kicked cause my opponent was better equipped, or just plain better, I dust myself off, pick myself up and hit drop again. I know who the better team was, Maybe this time I will be on the stomping side!, 60% of the time I am on the winning team either As a Lawman or as a PUG. That is good enough for me.

HHAHAHAHAHAHAHA you have absolutely nothing as a rebuttal. You cut the entire bottom of the message that complete negates anything you have to say.

Keep living in your bubble. I accept your defeat, even though it lacked any sort of dignity.

Khobai, on 12 July 2013 - 02:41 PM, said:

Again. light mechs will still be terrible even if you force them into games. Tonnage limits dont fix the problem.

actually, it does go a long way to fixing things. The reason lights and mediums quite often are terrible is because the amount of firepower on the field is so much greater than those mechs can provide. Now if you cut the amount of firepower currently on the field total, but you didnt touch the amount of firepower that a light or medium carry. Well you just made those mechs better, perhaps not entirely balanced and up to par, but they are better than previously without tonnage limits.

That is a simple fact.

[Murzao]

Braggart, on 12 July 2013 - 02:20 PM, said:

So in TT I could take 2 centurions, to fight 1 Highlander, because BVs were basically equal. Now that we are in MWO, PGI did nothing to make a centurion equal to a highlander. Since no balancing was done to make mediums or lights equal to the others, then obviously the only answer is a tonnage limit or battle value limit.

Now, some people might say a centurion shouldnt be equal to a Highlander, I would agree if it werent for the matchmaking causing someone in a centurion to fight a highlander.

umm 1 Centurion easily owns 1 Highlander......the 'problem' is when you have 3+ Highlanders cowering in a corner together.. Quite literally my Cent 9-A 3XASRM6/2Flamer/1MG can kill a poptart without taking any damage if I get in close to said poptart it is his buddies free to tee off that are the problem....and for sure he's on the mic saying save me save me!

If PGI actually coded artillery/airstrike properly so that they would hammer the super slow turret warriors and get some speed back into this game which is sorely needed. I should be able to drop an artillery on that poptarts head and have it hit him hard before he hits the ground. I should be able to airstrike a zergball and make them disperse.

[Joseph Mallan]

Braggart, on 12 July 2013 - 02:44 PM, said:

HHAHAHAHAHAHAHA you have absolutely nothing as a rebuttal. You cut the entire bottom of the message that complete negates anything you have to say.

Keep living in your bubble. I accept your defeat, even though it lacked any sort of dignity.

I cut off the second half of your useless drivel because Khobai is quite capable of squashing your lame attempts at bravado himself...

Khobai, on 12 July 2013 - 02:41 PM, said:

Again. light mechs will still be terrible even if you force them into games. Tonnage limits dont fix the problem. The problem is that light mechs are BAAAAD and no one WANTS to play them. Fixing light mechs and giving them a strong non-combat role in the game would be enough to get people to play them.

Oh look, he did just that here!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 12 July 2013 - 03:46 PM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Braggart, on 12 July 2013 - 02:44 PM, said:

actually, it does go a long way to fixing things. The reason lights and mediums quite often are terrible is because the amount of firepower on the field is so much greater than those mechs can provide. Now if you cut the amount of firepower currently on the field total, but you didnt touch the amount of firepower that a light or medium carry. Well you just made those mechs better, perhaps not entirely balanced and up to par, but they are better than previously without tonnage limits.

That is a simple fact.

Oh and the reason Lights die on the field uselessly is the pilot's fault not the Mech's. I know several Light Pilots who eat up Heavies and Assaults on a regular basis.

[CeeKay Boques]

Joseph Mallan, on 12 July 2013 - 03:49 PM, said:

Oh and the reason Lights die on the field uselessly is the pilot's fault not the Mech's. I know several Light Pilots who eat up Heavies and Assaults on a regular basis.

Yes, there are tons of people who relish fast mechs, and perform excellently in them. Lights are way more then speed and alpha value, just as LRMs have a lot to do with controlling where your enemy will venture, you can control mechs with LRMs, if people can avoid damage, they will, and that's part of their draw. If you give a mech 3 seconds to retreat and not take damage, they will, and that's part of what LRMs do. Same with lights. Their ability to identify enemy locations, distract them at point blank range, all make up for the fact that they don't carry 70 pt alphas.

[Braggart]

Joseph Mallan, on 12 July 2013 - 03:46 PM, said:

I cut off the second half of your useless drivel because Khobai is quite capable of squashing your lame attempts at bravado himself...
Oh look, he did just that here!

no you cut it off cause you have nothing...............nothing at all.


The fact that 2 cents is equal to 1 highlander in tabletop seems to elude most people.

They did nothing to buff mediums, in fact all changes have favored bigger mechs that can carry more weapons. So what you end up with is a team that has basically twice your firepower and value. because of broken matchmaking.

When hit detection issues are cleared up, you will see lights completely removed from the field also.

Edited by Braggart, 12 July 2013 - 04:25 PM.

[Joseph Mallan]

If that is what ou think I will let you live in our little delusional world. Everyone agrees with you there anyway.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 12 July 2013 - 04:24 PM.

[Braggart]

Joseph Mallan, on 12 July 2013 - 04:20 PM, said:

If that is what ou think I will let you live in our little delusional world. Everyone agrees with you there anyway.

good. Glad you give up when you have absolutely no valid argument in return. Good day.

[Joseph Mallan]

Braggart, on 12 July 2013 - 04:35 PM, said:

good. Glad you give up when you have absolutely no valid argument in return. Good day.

You gave up! Not me. My Argument is as, if not more valid than yours and It looks prettier in print than yours!

[Max Grayson]

Khobai, on 12 July 2013 - 02:41 PM, said:

Again. light mechs will still be terrible even if you force them into games. Tonnage limits dont fix the problem. The problem is that light mechs are BAAAAD and no one WANTS to play them. Fixing light mechs and giving them a strong non-combat role in the game would be enough to get people to play them.

I know many Assualt pilots that scream like little girls when they see a light mech, Light mechs definetly have a place in this game

[Joseph Mallan]

Max Grayson, on 12 July 2013 - 04:44 PM, said:

I know many Assualt pilots that scream like little girls when they see a light mech, Light mechs definetly have a place in this game

I have read those remarks as well. Back in the days of playing at 9 FpS If a Jenner got to circling me, I just powered down accepting my inevitable defeat. Now I don't need to cause I have a pretty good gaming rig. (Bless You, Doc an the rest of Murphy's Law!)

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 12 July 2013 - 04:51 PM.

[Max Grayson]

Joseph Mallan, on 12 July 2013 - 02:37 PM, said:

On the contrary. You wanna play a futuristic war game but don't want to abide by the rules of combat. Rule #1 Combat Isn't Fair! .........................

You sir are confused, which is understandable do to PGIs inability to properly translate the basic premise of the mechwarrior (battletech) TT games to a mechwarrior live action game.

While normally i would agree with many of your statements the Mechwarrior "universe" games are based on a somewhat different premise then your "rules of war"


I would be shocked if PGI didn't institute a BV or Tonnage Limit for drops at some juncture

Edited by Max Grayson, 12 July 2013 - 05:00 PM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Max Grayson, on 12 July 2013 - 04:52 PM, said:

You sir are confused, which is understandable do to PGIs inability to properly translate the basic premise of the mechwarrior (battletech) TT games to a mechwarrior live action game.

While normally i would agree with many of your statements the Mechwarrior "universe" games are based on a somewhat different premise then your "rules of war"


I would be shocked though if PGI didn't institute a BV or Tonnage Limit for drops at some juncture

Actually, I will disagree. I have been at this for almost a year, I started off with a pathetic 0.14 K/D. I have played v Every level of player and never did I complain. Not once while getting stomped by 8 man teams v 8 PUGs(sometimes you are the Dragoons sometimes you are their targets), Not once during the Reign of LRMs, enforced 4 man, Sync drops, SSRMs, 6xSRMs, 2xGauss, ECM, 6xPPC, 2xAC20 or any other Meta that has been railed against! I don't whine because I know combat isn't fair, and since this is a game that playes at combat, I accept someone will always be better than me or my group.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 12 July 2013 - 05:06 PM.

[Braggart]

Joseph Mallan, on 12 July 2013 - 05:05 PM, said:

Actually, I will disagree. I have been at this for almost a year, I started off with a pathetic 0.14 K/D. I have played v Every level of player and never did I complain. Not once while getting stomped by 8 man teams v 8 PUGs(sometimes you are the Dragoons sometimes you are their targets), Not once during the Reign of LRMs, enforced 4 man, Sync drops, SSRMs, 6xSRMs, 2xGauss, ECM, 6xPPC, 2xAC20 or any other Meta that has been railed against! I don't whine because I know combat isn't fair, and since this is a game that playes at combat, I accept someone will always be better than me or my group.

that is not valid at all.........................

the fact that you are stupid enough not to point of flaws and imbalances removes you from this forum. Now get out.

[Max Grayson]

Joseph Mallan, on 12 July 2013 - 05:05 PM, said:

Actually, I will disagree. I have been at this for almost a year, I started off with a pathetic 0.14 K/D. I have played v Every level of player and never did I complain. Not once while getting stomped by 8 man teams v 8 PUGs(sometimes you are the Dragoons sometimes you are their targets), Not once during the Reign of LRMs, enforced 4 man, Sync drops, SSRMs, 6xSRMs, 2xGauss, ECM, 6xPPC, 2xAC20 or any other Meta that has been railed against! I don't whine because I know combat isn't fair, and since this is a game that playes at combat, I accept someone will always be better than me or my group.

No sir, Let me clarify, the battletech Universe where this games is supposedly derived from is over 30? years old, this game is supposedly based on past games that had STRICT limits to certain parts of the game that allowed it to be "balanced". Without Knowing about the BT universe I can see why you would be confused about limits

What people are complaining about in this thread is that PGI has not incorporated a main element of the history of BT to this game yet.

Now PGI can choose to ignore 30 years of history and not do BV or tonnage limits and upset at least 50% of the player base or PGI can institute limits and bring harmony to the game

Edited by Max Grayson, 12 July 2013 - 05:38 PM.

[Taemien]

Khobai, on 12 July 2013 - 02:20 PM, said:

forcing people to play a light mech is not the same thing as making people want to play one. Adding tonnage limits doesnt fix light mechs and it would just make the queue times way longer as everyone would have to wait on light mech pilots. Again, we need to fix the reason why light mechs arnt used.... not force people to use light mechs when they dont want to play them. When light mechs and assault mechs were roughly balanced with eachother last october, you saw a good mix of all weight classes in every match. Game needs to go back to last october because thats when it was actually fun.

You have to understand something. This community is utterly afraid and against lights and mediums going toe to toe with heavies and assaults. They want tonnage limits only because when they get in their bad *** machines, they have smaller things to shoot at.

They don't want those smaller things being a threat.

I've suggested changes that would make lights and mediums more attractive and competitive. I either get some saying that lighter mechs should never take on heavier mechs (some of the time) or the thread mysteriously stops and another one pops up (most of the time), indicating that they are avoiding such a subject.

Funny thing is my suggestions aren't drastic and just are common sense. Such as lowering the profiles of medium mechs so they are harder to snipe, and increasing their agility so they can compete in close range. Neither of which will make them OP to Heavies or Assaults. But this community refuses to get behind such changes as it makes their heavies and assaults a little more vulnerable.

Remember they want you to pilot lighter machines. They don't want to do it themselves. What they don't understand is if the restrictions are put in, they will be faced with longer queue times unless they get in something lighter. But maybe they do and they are fine with that as long as someone else is acting as fodder.

Lights and Mediums are utterly hated by the community. First it was complaints about how OP Jenners and Hunchbacks were in Closed Beta. Then Ravens and Centurions (in CB, even the Yen Lo Wang was called OP), and then Cicadas for a short while even before ECM received functionality.

Why do you think there is very little in the way of threads about seismic sensors? You see one or two. But no where near as much as you saw about ECM or even BAP when it became a counter to ECM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Max Grayson, on 12 July 2013 - 05:28 PM, said:

No sir, Let me clarify, the battletech Universe where this games is supposedly derived from is over 30? years old, this game is supposedly based on past games that had STRICT limits to certain parts of the game that allowed it to be "balanced". Without Knowing about the BT universe I can see why you would be confused about limits

What people are complaining about in this thread is that PGI has not incorporated a main element of the history of BT to this game yet.

Now PGI can choose to ignore 30 years of history and not do BV or tonnage limits and upset at least 50% of the player base or PGI can they can institute limits and bring harmony to the game

If you look in the front page of many of the Source books you will find my name, My daughter is even a Named Character in a Mercs Handbook. I know the history and make up of the Scenarios. I was even a Commando (read demo Rep), I know all about the way to make a scenario balanced. You do know there are scenarios that are set up to make one side the probable winner so the outcome matches the Canon history right?

[Roland]

Khobai, on 12 July 2013 - 02:41 PM, said:

Again. light mechs will still be terrible even if you force them into games. Tonnage limits dont fix the problem. The problem is that light mechs are BAAAAD and no one WANTS to play them. Fixing light mechs and giving them a strong non-combat role in the game would be enough to get people to play them.

Actually, by forcing folks to play lighter mechs due to tonnage restrictions, they actually automatically end up being better because they are being matched up against OTHER LIGHTER MECHS.

This is how it worked in the old MW4 planetary leagues. In addition to providing scouting info, we routinely brought lights and mediums, because we had to.. and they were fine, because we were fighting against other lights and mediums.

[hammerreborn]

Joseph Mallan, on 12 July 2013 - 04:51 PM, said:

I have read those remarks as well. Back in the days of playing at 9 FpS If a Jenner got to circling me, I just powered down accepting my inevitable defeat. Now I don't need to cause I have a pretty good gaming rig. (Bless You, Doc an the rest of Murphy's Law!)

I think you misread him. He didn't mean scream like a little girl in the sense like a masked murder just jumped through your window brandishing a machete. He meant when a little girl sees a squirrel and goes "SQUIRRRRREEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLLLL" and then merrily chases after it.


At least that's my experience

Edited by hammerreborn, 12 July 2013 - 05:58 PM.