184 replies to this topic

[Thoren Wolf]

Just my pov, but since I came back a couple weeks ago after a two month break, teams are more into fighting and dying than in capping. I've been running my X-5 almost exclusively. With the speed tweak and the stock engine I run at 147 kph. Conquest is pretty much the only mode I play because of the cap rushes in assault. If I want to cap, which I have been doing a lot since my return, I hall *** to the caps. More than a few maps I've gotten the entire map capped out. I hit tab and I'm the only person left on the team while the other team has six players.

Now instead of QQing about me capping, they spread out and hit every cap with one hunting me down. All caps covered, only player left on team, guess how that ends. Then it's a huge rage from my now dead teammates about how me capping caused the team to lose. Sorry, but I wasn't the one in a Raven 4x facing an AC20 cat and trying to go shot for shot with him. Conquest is designed with capping in mind, assault with a more combat brawl style. Seems people have them backwards in their heads to me.

[Plonky]

Detrick Frost, on 25 July 2013 - 10:45 AM, said:

Just my pov, but since I came back a couple weeks ago after a two month break, teams are more into fighting and dying than in capping. I've been running my X-5 almost exclusively. With the speed tweak and the stock engine I run at 147 kph. Conquest is pretty much the only mode I play because of the cap rushes in assault. If I want to cap, which I have been doing a lot since my return, I hall *** to the caps. More than a few maps I've gotten the entire map capped out. I hit tab and I'm the only person left on the team while the other team has six players.

Now instead of QQing about me capping, they spread out and hit every cap with one hunting me down. All caps covered, only player left on team, guess how that ends. Then it's a huge rage from my now dead teammates about how me capping caused the team to lose. Sorry, but I wasn't the one in a Raven 4x facing an AC20 cat and trying to go shot for shot with him. Conquest is designed with capping in mind, assault with a more combat brawl style. Seems people have them backwards in their heads to me.

You sound like you'd be a lot of fun to play with. I wish everyone was like you.

[Psikez]

Alright so you guys defend your base, we'll defend ours and after 15 minutes of nothing we can all agree to just go home

[Plonky]

Psikez, on 26 July 2013 - 04:09 PM, said:

Alright so you guys defend your base, we'll defend ours and after 15 minutes of nothing we can all agree to just go home

Funny thing is, you can't do that because "lights won't have a role".

[Magicbullet141]

If most people didn't roll around in ppc boat assaults maybe they would have the mobility to cover base?
Capping is not the problem, its a symptom of another issue, high alpha boating. The best high alpha boats are assaults, who are slow. Personally in this meta, I would much rather cap out than die in a ball of ppc plasma.
4 man douche-capping lights for the win!

[Jestun]

People that don't understand the game is not team deathmatch are ruining the game.

[Sporklift]

I say the game is ruining the cap!

[Plonky]

Jestun, on 27 July 2013 - 07:54 AM, said:

People that don't understand the game is not team deathmatch are ruining the game.

Yeah, it's much more fun when there's no fighting. I just played a game in which no-one fired their weapons. Best game ever. All those sexy 0s in the summary at the end. I wish every game was like that.

More seriously, I think people confuse different issues to form a point of view that is flawed. From what I'm seeing on the forum, people seem to want game modes that aren't just a battle, and people have fun playing the cap game or brawling game, or whatever. But this doesn't mean that the current game modes and maps are good game modes and maps.

I agree that there should be more game modes than team death match. The problem is that the game modes we have right now aren't really good for team death match OR anything else. Yes, you can have fun games in either game mode, and yes, you can be successful with any tactic on any map, some of the time. The problem is that overall, things aren't in a good place, as is evidenced by more combat oriented people complaining about capping, and more cap oriented people complaining about combat.

The fact is that if all you want to do is fight, there isn't a game mode you can play where you don't have to worry about some annoying people running around capping. If you want to play a non TDM game, you have to put up with the teams blobbing together and killing each other and ignoring objectives. It's frustrating. It feels like in order for things to work well, the teams need to agree beforehand what type of game it's going to be. And even if that happened, you'd still have problems such as assaults being somewhat useless at taking capture points, and lights/mediums being at a disadvantage in blob style combat (although I think lights and mediums do have a role in combat).

I think the objectives for each team need to be closer together, otherwise slow mechs can't pressure or defend more than one or two of them over the course of a match. You can't have non TDM map modes with heavy mechs unless holding ground is important. At the moment, you're rolling the dice as a slow mech. In assault, if you defend, you might not do anything all game. If you move to the cap, you'll spend the entire game walking. At least if you fight the enemy you'll be useful.

In conquest, holding any particular point is irrelevant, because there are always 4 other points. So as a slow mech, you move to one point, perhaps then move to another, but are completely reliant on other people to take at least one of the other 3 points. If your team's slow mechs split up, you risk being outnumbered and losing the battle, which will lose you the game anyway.

When it comes down to it, if you're playing a slow mech, it doesn't make sense to do anything other than attack the enemy team with your team. That's not the fault of the player, it's a problem with the way the game has been designed. The team with the most mechs will win the battle more often than not, so doing anything that splits up your team puts you at a disadvantage.

Edited by PeenyPoke, 27 July 2013 - 07:42 PM.

[Durkan]

Listen,

Its very clear what the rules are.

Victory by killing all the enemy or capturing the base.

I don't set out to win a match by capping but if your entire team is slow-arsed assaults and you've all wandered off and left the back door open. I will try and win by cap.

I do this for a number of reasons.

1. I'm trying to make you panic, split your force, turn around and generally ruffle your feathers. Timed right with an aggressive assault this is really effective tactic.

2. It's not an enormous amount of fun or very profitable to win this way but I'm willing to sacrifice one match. If I don't you and your buddies are going to continue to (further) turn this game into an all assault conga-line. Where the only tactic is to bring the biggest heaviest mech, trudge to the middle of the map, shove ppcs up each others noses and pull the trigger. And you accuse me of spoiling the fun?

Stop the bitchy-arsed whining and play the rules.
If you don't like being capped out all the time - try a new tactic.
If you don't like the rules - go bug pgi for a pure death match mode where you and your ppc lrm assault whoring buddies can have whatever fun you think you can find.

[Ozric]

12vs12. Hang in there.

[Plonky]

Durkan, on 28 July 2013 - 02:15 AM, said:

Its very clear what the rules are.

Yes. We all understand the rules. The problem is not a lack of understanding of the rules. I don't understand why you think not understanding the rules is the cause of this problem.

But just in case you are confused, the complaint is that the rules are bad (or badly implemented). Some people are complaining that the game has too much combat. Some people are complaining that the combat is being undermined by people exploiting the rules to avoid combat.

But it's ok. Just relax. We are already taking your advice. We are bugging PGI.

Edited by PeenyPoke, 28 July 2013 - 02:46 AM.

[Durkan]

I'm not confused.
I'm in total agreement that the issue here is not the game mode itself but the lack of game modes.

Crying, bitching, threatening to TK ppl following the ruleset. = not helpful, not relevant, really bored with.

Also just to clarify in case you're confused:

An exploit would be manipulating a mechanic of the game to get an outcome unintended by the designers.

Riding an Atlas on the back of a Jenner at 80 kmh = exploit
Winning a game where it says "win by cap" as a victory condition = playing the game.


PS I'm totally relaxed and feeling much better ty

[Nutlink]

VoidByte, on 27 July 2013 - 11:34 PM, said:

Ah, just Act like me,
if someone of your team starts capping (and knows: "Ok we win the game, but i rob the fun out of all players AND their C-Bills/XP of our team.") i go and kill em.
Its better to be a teamkiller instead of an Capwarrior.

We have an extra mode for pacifist, the conquer mode, there they can capture all over the map, the whole day. But i dont spend money, configure my mech, think about the loadout just for staying in a sqare to win at all cost.

And after this, noone have had fun, and noone earn money/xp, BUT WE WIN. Victory without rewards.

So, just run and kill your capwarriors until this horrible game-phase ends. I really hope it will end soon and all the capwarriors go to conquer mode. So that the (Mech-)warriors can make war. And the rest can cap their oilpumps.

Or maybe some Math help:

Results for a normal game:			With Capholes	Without Capholes
Damage:			0	0 - 1200
Fun:			0%	100%
C-Bills:			30.000 - 50.000	120.000 - 250.000
Team:			Pissed	maybe Happy
Enemys:			Pissed	maybe Happy
Penalty for Killing 2 Capwarriors:			0	20.000
Time:			Wasted	Used to play the game
SUMMARY:			50k People and lots of hate	100k - 220k and happy people

Maybe that help to understand why a victory is NOT acceptable at all costs.

They just need to add TDM so people like you can stop trying to shoot people like me because I don't feel like wasting time running around the map to hunt down that last Spider that doesn't seem to want to die. I play for fun, not for grinding CBills and XP and making things go BOOM! for my ADD. Capping is part of the game, deal with it.

[Elistaire Drummond]

If you are outcapped you were doing something wrong in your team.

Nuff said.

[VoidByte]

BOTA49, on 28 July 2013 - 08:45 AM, said:

They just need to add TDM so people like you can stop trying to shoot people like me because I don't feel like wasting time running around the map to hunt down that last Spider that doesn't seem to want to die. I play for fun, not for grinding CBills and XP and making things go BOOM! for my ADD. Capping is part of the game, deal with it.

Yes thats exactly what i want. Im a programmer, and i know that it is easy to write an algorythm that checks, if a mech is being inflicted in combat or not. So you can create a TDM with simple new rules like: if there is only one mech in the enemy team, and is not thinking about to going in combat: remaining Time decrease to 1 min.

Other idea: Same like now with capturepoints. BUT with turret guns. So you cant just run inside.
The problem i have with capholes is, that they dont wait for a good match and turn the last seconds to victory.
Now, they Start the game, run around the enemy mechs and start capping before the first not-170kph-mech see the enemy.
Put turret guns at the capping points, everything solved. No light speedy mech will steal everyones fun anymore.

[Thoren Wolf]

VoidByte, on 28 July 2013 - 12:00 PM, said:

Yes thats exactly what i want. Im a programmer, and i know that it is easy to write an algorythm that checks, if a mech is being inflicted in combat or not. So you can create a TDM with simple new rules like: if there is only one mech in the enemy team, and is not thinking about to going in combat: remaining Time decrease to 1 min.

Other idea: Same like now with capturepoints. BUT with turret guns. So you cant just run inside.
The problem i have with capholes is, that they dont wait for a good match and turn the last seconds to victory.
Now, they Start the game, run around the enemy mechs and start capping before the first not-170kph-mech see the enemy.
Put turret guns at the capping points, everything solved. No light speedy mech will steal everyones fun anymore.

This sounds like a good idea and an extra challenge. Now with the added air/artillery strikes, lights and fast mediums would need to work together and take out these turrets, call in an air strike or bombardment. As I said earlier, I cap in conquest quite a bit, in assault I rarely go for a cap unless it is as a Hail Mary due to the team being decimated (down to three mechs). At that point I try, may try, to salvage the game if I'm in a light. If I'm in a heavy or assault, then more than likely I'm already dead and my troubles are over.

Edited by Detrick Frost, 28 July 2013 - 01:09 PM.

[DegeneratePervert]

If my buddy and I take our Spiders and cap you while all you big guys are stomping around shooting PPCs at each other, that's your own fault. Don't leave your back door open.

[Plonky]

Lol, they should just have a game mode where shooting is disabled.

[TheAtomiser]

Lrn2 defend. PGIs stats indicate capping is rare. / thread.

[hammerreborn]

VoidByte, on 28 July 2013 - 12:00 PM, said:

No light speedy mech will steal everyones fun anymore.

Oh go **** yourself. Assaults have been ruining everyones fun for months. God forbid everyone not run directly into your sights so you can "skill" kill them with your "skillPCs"

Edited by hammerreborn, 28 July 2013 - 05:16 PM.