139 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

HanaYuriko, on 17 August 2013 - 01:45 PM, said:

Here's a profile view of the wireframe. I'm open to suggestions.

well, I ain't a modeler. But can the shock towers be mildly shortened, and the upper drive hubs and wheel lowered some?

Like I said, rookie question, just speaking from the "artist" stand point, and not the modeler, it just feels...too tall still. Sorry to catch that at this late point (r at least bring it up) just didn't really have good reference til the turret was done. The turret is amazing, btw, and I like the details of the drive chassis. ..... just feels...tall.

[HanaYuriko]

Bishop Steiner, on 17 August 2013 - 01:50 PM, said:

well, I ain't a modeler. But can the shock towers be mildly shortened, and the upper drive hubs and wheel lowered some?

Like I said, rookie question, just speaking from the "artist" stand point, and not the modeler, it just feels...too tall still. Sorry to catch that at this late point (r at least bring it up) just didn't really have good reference til the turret was done. The turret is amazing, btw, and I like the details of the drive chassis. ..... just feels...tall.

I don't have all of the parts assembled to give the proper dimensions just yet but I've been trying to make it comparable to the M1A2 Abrams. I built the suspension in an extended state since all of the image references I used are from model kits. When weight is put on an actual real world build, the springs compress and torsion bars twist to support the weight of the tank.

That compression didn't come to mind as I constructed the model. If someone were to rig it for animation and give it weight, it might look right. I tried to flatten the hull some just before posting the wireframe, but it distorted the shape of the rest of the details.

Right now the only thing I can think to do is to shrink the size of the entire drive assembly and stick in more track links to fill it out and keep the overall length. That should reduce the height and I'll be able to keep the wheels (also reduced in size) in their current location.

[Bishop Steiner]

HanaYuriko, on 17 August 2013 - 02:05 PM, said:

I don't have all of the parts assembled to give the proper dimensions just yet but I've been trying to make it comparable to the M1A2 Abrams. I built the suspension in an extended state since all of the image references I used are from model kits. When weight is put on an actual real world build, the springs compress and torsion bars twist to support the weight of the tank.

That compression didn't come to mind as I constructed the model. If someone were to rig it for animation and give it weight, it might look right. I tried to flatten the hull some just before posting the wireframe, but it distorted the shape of the rest of the details.

Right now the only thing I can think to do is to shrink the size of the entire drive assembly and stick in more track links to fill it out and keep the overall length. That should reduce the height and I'll be able to keep the wheels (also reduced in size) in their current location.

yeah... concept art editing is a little (ok, a LOT)simpler, hence my hesitation in making recommendations, cuz I know once you go *** rolling, it's hard to change.

[HanaYuriko]

Here's a model of the Abrams in wireframe placed over my orthographic renders of the Patton/Rommel. You can see it is nearly the same height and width. Somehow the Patton ended up with a shorter hull length as I was building it.

That is if this model of the Abrams is scaled and constructed properly (It isn't mine and I forgot where I got it).

[Sentinel373]

I love this design and the model. very nice work.

[Bishop Steiner]

HanaYuriko, on 17 August 2013 - 02:24 PM, said:

Here's a model of the Abrams in wireframe placed over my orthographic renders of the Patton/Rommel. You can see it is nearly the same height and width. Somehow the Patton ended up with a shorter hull length as I was building it.

That is if this model of the Abrams is scaled and constructed properly (It isn't mine and I forgot where I got it).

longer hull might actually be the better fix for the "feel" than shrinking height, though a short wheelbase and lower actual height would be more combat effective.

[LONGINUS]

Well done, HanaYuriko! That looks awesome!

Would love to see this tank as NPC unit in MWO.

[CarnageINC]

Very well done! I'm wish these kind of vehicles could be included in MWO. Looking forward to your final creation!

[9erRed]

Greetings all,

Your Patton is indeed very tall and you may want to look at bringing the road wheels up some.[adding weight] Currently you have the center hubs below the lower hull height and may need to change this distance, without a scale reference to just how large are the road wheels the "under belly" clearance could be 2 feet or more. Lower the hull body to either the hubs or midway between the hubs and bottom of the road wheels, shorten the shocks by half. (I know, no one would see them anyways, but their compression distance should only be about 6-8 inch's, so set the length with that factor.)

I still see (in my opinion) way too much height on the idler and drive sprocket wheels which causes the entire track system to be very tall. The image that you posted showing a bare suspension layout was from a M60 body, one of the tallest tanks ever. And that proved to be a problem for that tank. Your initial drawing concept only has 6 road wheel, the original line work has 8 wheels and may be a factor, reason for the tank appearing short. (I know, artist discretion but may be a factor?)

For an additional idea on indicating vehicle weigh and setting scale may I refer to this: [Staging Area by Spooky777]
The tank styled vehicles are set very low to the ground with armoured covers extending nearly to the tracks which provides protection for the vehicle carrying components. I don't want to highjack the thread but I'd like to reference another artist showing tanks, armoured vehicles and Mech's for his scale comparison. This image is available at another site. The large scale tanks are in the top left corner of the image and appear to be at least 15 feet or more in height. (it's a very large image, so you can really zoom in, 3Gb size.) I had to copy and past the image from a saved source as the original is not allowed in this forum.



This is just for another impression and view on how other artists capture the size and scale of these battle vehicles.

Great work on your rendition of the Patton.
9erRed

Edited by 9erRed, 18 August 2013 - 02:32 AM.

[HanaYuriko]

Alright! Lets play, "Spot the Difference!"

[HIemfire]

More wheels on the tracks, tracks have more teeth, the spacing between the large slot screws (what the hell are those for, engine torque adjusments ) on the side is wider, turret is still center of the tank but effectivly farther forwards of the engine bay.

Wow that turret base is a gnarly shot trap............ I actually think I could hide under the turret during a rain storm with out the gunner or commander turning it to accomadate me... I am definatly bigger than a 125 shell...

Edited by HIemfire, 18 August 2013 - 02:42 PM.

[HanaYuriko]

HIemfire, on 18 August 2013 - 02:41 PM, said:

More wheels on the tracks, tracks have more teeth, the spacing between the large slot screws (what the hell are those for, engine torque adjusments ) on the side is wider, turret is still center of the tank but effectivly farther forwards of the engine bay.

Wow that turret base is a gnarly shot trap............ I actually think I could hide under the turret during a rain storm with out the gunner or commander turning it to accomadate me... I am definatly bigger than a 125 shell...

That's about spot on, actually.

At this scale, I chopped the tank in half and added a 1 meter wide spacer. Then welded everything together to lengthen the hull and sides. Though on the left/right sides the spacer was added between the forward screw, (I don't know why they are there either.) and the trio of X-plates. The hull itself was cut between the engine deck and the turret ring. When that was done, I had to remove some of the surface details from the sides and adjust the skirts to fit. Then model the surface details back in (the inset for the joints between the side and the row of armor skirts on the bottom).

After that I shrunk down the entire suspension system by about 10-15%. That effectively lowered the return rollers further down on the hull. Then I shortened the shocks as per 9erRed's suggestion (hidden in these views). After all of that I lengthened tracks by adding in about a dozen more links and an extra road wheel. I still need to space the wheels out a bit to even things, but I'm pretty much done with the hull now. At least I think I am.

I make no comments about the shot trap. Not my initial design ::grins::

[Teliri]

I see you have left to finish only a gun and turret tower) HanaYuriko, I love what you do, your attention to detail and patience, and I'm glad that it was you took up this job . And now the bad news: Could you please send me the model (in the obj format) so I made ​​some corrections to the design of the hull and turret? you have done your job perfectly, I just do not like some parts of my own design and I want to fix them before we start painting the tank textures, if my changes will not be very successful, we'll be back to your version

[Tennex]

MWO NEEDS MOAR TANKS

[HanaYuriko]

Teliri, on 18 August 2013 - 10:10 PM, said:

I see you have left to finish only a gun and turret tower) HanaYuriko, I love what you do, your attention to detail and patience, and I'm glad that it was you took up this job . And now the bad news: Could you please send me the model (in the obj format) so I made ​​some corrections to the design of the hull and turret? you have done your job perfectly, I just do not like some parts of my own design and I want to fix them before we start painting the tank textures, if my changes will not be very successful, we'll be back to your version

The hull is pretty much done and glued together so I can send that to you. The turret is still in a lot of pieces and quite incomplete so I'm not sure what you'd like to do there.

-edit-
The hull is over 660,000 tris (mostly due to the tracks) and my PC doesn't want to save it as *.OBJ format.

Edited by HanaYuriko, 19 August 2013 - 05:48 AM.

[9erRed]

Greetings all,

You may want to rotate the model and check for barrel clearance over the rear deck. Not sure it will clear. As has been noticed there is a large area between the turret lower edges and the hull, this is a very dangerous location for anything hitting the tank. The lack of protection there would lead to a quick destruction of the vehicle when in a "hull down" position. (low shot to visible turret.)

Normally the armour and turret will have a very narrow gap over the hull, from all aspects. If it's found to be a "shot trap" problem with any areas around the turret/hull there are normally "field modifications" applied till an "Official Modification" is brought into the fleet. [see the Israeli Merkava tank for the turret rear chain and ball fix for Antitank rockets.] The tank turret design normally starts with "what will the typical roll be for this vehicle", if the vehicle is designed for defence situations mostly, then the shape will follow "hull down" designs. (low angles and sloped profile.) Assault profile designs normally use Mass or heavy armour (relative to protection level of armour) to provide "extended time in contact" and protection for crew.

(Note: Most current tank designs have an electric drive unit that auto elevates the barrel to clear the rear deck if the barrel is depressed too low during a rotate over the rear deck.)

Backstory:
In this time period, tanks only provide a supporting role for most operations and are not the battle fields largest threat. Ground vehicles against ground vehicle battles were quite common but if the area or target was of importance Mech's would be brought to the battle. [easer to transport, deploy and supply than a Company of tanks.]

Back on topic, check for reshaping the lower edges of the turret to mold it into the hull profile. Especially the back of the turret over the rear deck, as you have a rather large rise in the hull to contend with. Check for turret clearance on all lower edges when the turret is rotated through 360 Degrees. Your overlay of the M1 design line drawing shows how the turret and hull profiles match to provide protection for the connecting areas of both. Also you had mentioned you will be balancing the road wheels, keep in mind that the first wheel normally has more space as it's the wheel that contacts obstacles first and moves the most. (an aside; also needs the shocks replaced more often as a result.)

Image ideas just for reference:




Just an observation,
9erRed

Edited by 9erRed, 20 August 2013 - 06:18 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

9erRed, on 20 August 2013 - 06:02 AM, said:

Greetings all,





Just an observation,
9erRed

goodnight! Which is that sexy beast?

[9erRed]

Greetings all,

AMX 56 Leclerc (French)

Later,
9erRed

[Will9761]

Teliri, on 29 July 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

Your artwork is amazing. I gotta ask, how did you do it?

This MWO-ized version of the Valkyrie strengthens my faith that we will see the rest of the Unseens one day and Harmony Gold will crumble as a result.

[HanaYuriko]

I'm not really sure how to continue with this model. Teliri's post about making changes has me stumped on what I should do from here on out.