464 replies to this topic

[xZaOx]

Still dont get why LL are in the same "boat" as ppc's. They arent pint point, they have less distance, and they usually drag, especially if both mechs are moving.

They should be set to min 3, but I think it should be 4, so the RS isn't gimped.

[xengk]

Quote

Heat Scale Addition

Heat scale has been added to certain weapon systems. This is a heat penalty applied to weapons that are fired in an Alpha Strike manner. The following chart shows the MAXIMUM number of that weapon type that you can fire at the same time with no heat penalty.

This bit here.
The only way I can make sense of it is that the Multiplier is apply to each weapon when alpha beyond threshold.

4 PPCs = 4*7 = 28 extra heat + 32 normal heat = 60 heat total
4 ERPPC = 4*4.5 = 18 extra heat + 44 normal heat = 62 heat total
4 LL = 4*2.8 = 11.2 extra heat + 28 normal heat = 39.2 heat total
9ML = 9*1 = 9 extra heat + 36 normal heat = 45 heat total

[Shumabot]

Wales Grey, on 16 July 2013 - 09:59 AM, said:

So you honestly believe this insipid and arbitrary mechanic will inspire any meaningful change in the metagame?

No, but its certainly inspired me to uninstall the game. #GoodbyeMWO #YouAreDestinedForFailure

[FupDup]

hammerreborn, on 16 July 2013 - 10:00 AM, said:

Why would you macro a .5 cool down that is achieved just by hitting backspace?

The ac/2 is to fire faster than chain fire while making sure by the 6th the first is cooled down, but this isn't the case

Because backspace makes you fire one weapon at a time. A macro will make it easier to fire two groups of 2 PPCs each (chain fire makes it into 4 individual shots) and sidestep the penalty.

[Tennex]

hammerreborn, on 16 July 2013 - 10:00 AM, said:

Why would you macro a .5 cool down that is achieved just by hitting backspace?

The ac/2 is to fire faster than chain fire while making sure by the 6th the first is cooled down, but this isn't the case

i dunno maybe because you want to fire 2 weapons in 0.5 intervals. instead of just 1 weapon.

[Kunae]

Unbound Inferno, on 16 July 2013 - 09:55 AM, said:

With the Streak targeting change, this makes the SSRM one of the most useless pieces of hardware available. Thre rates of the Streak hitting a particular part - of which you can't determine anymore - will translate to an incredible increase in light's surviveability. Without a damage buff it's almost as useless as MGs on fully armored mechs.

If I got to point it out the comparable damage output of the SSRM is likely going to be too low.

At the very least SSRM should be the same as SRM damage to 2.0 with that streak pathing.

No more crutch, for joo!

[Ken Fury]

Thontor, on 16 July 2013 - 09:51 AM, said:

Keep in mind the heat scale doesn't mean to eliminate this builds, just to discourage alpha striking with them. You can still bring the AC/40 Jagermech and put out the same DPS. With no penalty as long as you wait half a second between shots.

So your on the internal test team ?

[Belorion]

Ragnar Darkmane, on 16 July 2013 - 09:46 AM, said:

The only mech that should be viable with AC 40 is the King Crab (with his own weaknesses like super low speed and giant hitboxes to balance for the firepower), nothing else.

It will have to be subjected to the same restrictions.

The King Crab isn't the only dual AC-20 mech from lore. Hunchback IIC comes to mind.

[Urdnot Mau]

InRev, on 16 July 2013 - 09:54 AM, said:

Can we just get the raw formula for the Heat Scale in the Command Chair post, or something? Patch hasn't even finished deploying and there are already a million theories on how it works.

it's a simple multiplication: Multiplier * Heat penalty
the multiplier is the number of extra weapons being fired (e.g with 3 PPCs you have 1 extra PPC, so multiplier = 1)
Heat penalty varies per weapon (e.g heat penalty for PPCs is 7)

firing 3 PPCs will generate 3 * 8 + (1 * 7 <- heat penalty) heat

Edited by Urdnot Mau, 16 July 2013 - 10:10 AM.

[MechFrog1]

xZaOx, on 16 July 2013 - 10:00 AM, said:

Still dont get why LL are in the same "boat" as ppc's. They arent pint point, they have less distance, and they usually drag, especially if both mechs are moving.

They should be set to min 3, but I think it should be 4, so the RS isn't gimped.

They had to finally bring down the hammer on my 3LL 3MG Marmaset. It was way OP

[Azzras]

Shumabot, on 16 July 2013 - 10:01 AM, said:

No, but its certainly inspired me to uninstall the game. #GoodbyeMWO #YouAreDestinedForFailure

Can I have your stuff?

[Wales Grey]

Ragnar Darkmane, on 16 July 2013 - 09:46 AM, said:

The only mech that should be viable with AC 40 is the King Crab (with his own weaknesses like super low speed and giant hitboxes to balance for the firepower), nothing else.

Why?

[Booran]

yes let's whine and dissect the new patch before we even played it.

[MechFrog1]

Azzras, on 16 July 2013 - 10:02 AM, said:

Can I have your stuff?

Player trading won't be available until UI2.0. Ready in the Fall*


*of 2014

[hammerreborn]

FupDup, on 16 July 2013 - 09:58 AM, said:

A smaller alpha doesn't change the fact that alpha striking is still the most efficient and effective way to play the game--now you just can't have more than 2 PPCs. Big whup.

How do you write this when also writing?

Quote

The 6 PPC Stalker wass a horrible build that only noobs in the underhive used. 4 PPC or 2 PPC + 2 ERPPC was far superior because it could actually sustain its damage longer than a single alpha.

And guess what, after the 30th you can do that either!


How people say heat scale doesn't change the meta while saying people will switch to a 2 ppc guass vs 3 ppc guass or 4-6 ppcs boggles my mind.

[Azzras]

mint frog, on 16 July 2013 - 10:04 AM, said:

Player trading won't be available until UI2.0. Ready in the Fall*


*of 2014

He could just give me his account, then.
I could live with that.

[Felicitatem Parco]

I never Poptarted, but the JJ-Shake did give me motion sickness when I tested it for 30 minutes. The problem was the disconnect between environmental shaking, HUD motionlessness, and reticule dancing. They had 3 different mobility elements all going on their own, non-correlated harmonics and that causes motion sickness.

It was EXACTLY the same as when I played Turok: Dinosaur Hunter on the N64 with Disco Mode on - with moving lights in the background and a static HUD, your body gets very confused. The Motion sickness was not a lie (this, coming from a non-poptarter).

If the HUD shook like the environment and the reticule didn't dance independently, then there would be no motion sickness at all regardless of shake intensity, but as long as the background, HUD, and reticule have their own free motion schemes then it will continue to pose a risk of motion sickness.


Eh, at least Streaks are no longer CT-Seeking Missiles. That makes me happy. I really like the SRM temp-boost and the AC/5 chainfire fix (although I already learned how to manually adjust for the AC/5 chain delay on the 4th shot, now I don't have to worry about it ;-). And I like* the heat penalties, too. It will encourage a little more consideration before popping that last Alpha, especially if your CT is low on health. I do see how many of the penalties will be bypassed (even after the PPC/ERPPC lump on the 30th), but those bypasses will come at a cost which is a good start.


*Well, I will miss my 3PPC Swayback Alpha Sniper...

Edited by Prosperity Park, 16 July 2013 - 10:06 AM.

[FupDup]

hammerreborn, on 16 July 2013 - 10:05 AM, said:

How do you write this when also writing?

Magic.

hammerreborn, on 16 July 2013 - 10:05 AM, said:

And guess what, after the 30th you can do that either!


How people say heat scale doesn't change the meta while saying people will switch to a 2 ppc guass vs 3 ppc guass or 4-6 ppcs boggles my mind.

The meta is long-range alpha-striking. All this does is modify the builds used for long-range alpha striking.



Ham, you're not thinking in terms of problems. You're thinking in terms of symptoms. The underlying problem is that alpha-striking and long range are both too effective. The symptom of this is that PPCs were mass-boated because they took advantage of both imbalances more effectively than anything else. This patch has not solved the problem, it merely removes the symptom and replaces it with another.

Edited by FupDup, 16 July 2013 - 10:12 AM.

[scJazz]

Urdnot Mau, on 16 July 2013 - 09:48 AM, said:

oh god ! ...
the multiplier is the number of extra weapons being fired.... firing 3 PPCs you will have a multiplier of 1 and you will generate 1 * 7 extra heat

My point here is... WTF HELLO!!! WHERE IS IT BLOODY WELL EXPLAINED! YOU KNOW IN DETAIL BY PGI!

Paul said that firing lots of weapons would cause heat to grow exponentially, what you describe is linear. He also said firing one extra wouldn't be that bad a penalty. I know... PAUL SAID so we can assume instantly that he was wrong. Having said that I'd still like a clear frickin explanation!

How in the **** do you introduce the largest balance change in the game ever without having it explained in ******* detail!

Edited by scJazz, 16 July 2013 - 10:09 AM.

[Urdnot Mau]

Ragnar Darkmane, on 16 July 2013 - 09:57 AM, said:

AC 20 + single Gauss is more balanced than the AC 40 we had because
1. You'll have to spend another ton and have the huge risk of Gauss Rifle explosion
2. You'll need TWO different types of ammo
3. You'll deal 5 damage less per alpha
4. you have a mismatch of projectile speed which will make hitting harder.
5. You'll lack DHS with such a balistic heavy build to actually be able to use those MLs.

1. ditch the medium laser, everything's fine. No one aims the arm, so not such HUGEEEEEEEEEEE risk.
2. what's wrong with it ? they all weight 1 ton.
3. That really is a downside
4. This is also a problem with moving targets. Minor gameplay adjustment. Besides, 1 projectile will be faster than other, so it's half a plus PLUS the range bonus
5. 10 DHS is more than enough. 6 heat generated from the AC 20, 4 from the medium laser. about 4 seconds to cool down. Nothing compared to the 2 AC 20 + 2 Medium lasers.

Edited by Urdnot Mau, 16 July 2013 - 10:09 AM.