76 replies to this topic

[zazz0000]

Ok... 3 PPC's get a heat penalty. Cool.

2 PPC's, 2 LL's, AC-20, LRM-20, SRM-6 alpha strike (silly, but possible) results in regular weapon heat production.

Second scenario. 2 PPC's fired. 2 more PPC's fired in .475 seconds. Full heat penalty.
2 PPC's fired. 2 more PPC's fired in .525 second. No problem.

I'm sure there are more scenarios that make even less sense than those above.
The current heat thing is easily circumvented by even a small amount of skill. One instant shot or two shots half a second apart? Still cores enemies quite well.

This is the king of bandaid fixes if I've seen one. One man's purchase of the overlord phoenix package paid handsomely for the time involved in implementing this debauch.

Keep it for now, but scrap it when underlying issues are solved! (Just as you claim that SRM damage should be lowered when hit detection is fixed)

[NTDFMaverick]

I thought the same thing, it's very arbitrary at best. 24 heat added for two AC 20s? Who thought of that one? You, know, there are a lot of ways to balance weapons other than heat, like refire rate and projectile speed. In fact, heat is one of the worst ways to go about it. I'm really worried about the future of this game, with ideas like this heatscale. It's bandaid on top of bandaid. Other mechwarrior games managed to figure this all out...... I dare say.

[warner2]

There is no logic to it. At all. It's pathetic.

[LTGear]

zazz0000, on 16 July 2013 - 11:28 PM, said:

Ok... 3 PPC's get a heat penalty. Cool.

2 PPC's, 2 LL's, AC-20, LRM-20, SRM-6 alpha strike (silly, but possible) results in regular weapon heat production.

Second scenario. 2 PPC's fired. 2 more PPC's fired in .475 seconds. Full heat penalty.
2 PPC's fired. 2 more PPC's fired in .525 second. No problem.

I'm sure there are more scenarios that make even less sense than those above.
The current heat thing is easily circumvented by even a small amount of skill. One instant shot or two shots half a second apart? Still cores enemies quite well.

This is the king of bandaid fixes if I've seen one. One man's purchase of the overlord phoenix package paid handsomely for the time involved in implementing this debauch.

Keep it for now, but scrap it when underlying issues are solved! (Just as you claim that SRM damage should be lowered when hit detection is fixed)

so you're one of those whiners that's why they change the heat system again? yes or no well !*^$##*$(*#(@#*^@ if yes

[Malsumis]

It seems most of those who are upset with this heat penalty I'm willing to bet drive AC40 setups. I'd rather drop a heat penalty for AC40's and just have the mech topple over from the amount of recoil of firing off two AC20's. Sure you'll get the shot off, but then you're a sitting duck.

The heat penalty doesn't bother me as I don't have any setups that are effected by the change. I've tried many of the cheese builds but never liked them much.

[AndyHill]

I believe PGI have the absolutely correct idea in trying to take out pinpoint alpha hitting power. In fact, I believe that the only truly effective way to do that is by removing the possibility to fire many weapons at once altogether (if you're really interested in my views, check out http://mwomercs.com/...__fromsearch__1).

Looking at the PGI's effort so far, all I can say is that my Gausspult says thanks. However, it is entirely possible to stop pinpoint alphas with heat changes entirely and terribly sorry for the insult, but I can actually see PGI adding a +50 heat penalty to firing the second Gauss rifle (Clarification to those who might not get it, this was actually an insult, since doing so would be quite daft). In the end, by removing pinpoint alpha ability with arbitrary heat penalties instead of simply removing the ability to group fire, PGI will have succeeded in:

1) Making all the newbs in the world (this includes the vast majority of the player population, since only the most active forum goers have any idea of what's going on)
- Explode the moment they first fire their guns in a trial 'mech, before even knowing what chain fire is
- Buy bad 'mechs since they have no idea about the secret and complex building rules
- uninstall the game never looking back

2) Making all players
- Explode whenever they accidentally fire two weapons from different groups at 0.49 second intervals
- Uninstall the game and look back with sorrow

3) Mangling the weapon balance in the process

...all for the reason of saving the pinpoint alpha strike as a useful gameplay addition to

1) Suicide farmers
2-) ?

Definitely worth it.

Edited by AndyHill, 17 July 2013 - 03:37 AM.

[zazz0000]

LTGear, on 17 July 2013 - 03:24 AM, said:

so you're one of those whiners that's why they change the heat system again? yes or no well !*^$##*$(*#(@#*^@ if yes

No, to be honest I'm one of those who instantly found a way to manage with the new system and now quietly chuckle cuz I can run a quad-PPC stalker guilt-free, a build I didn't use before as a matter of principle.

I actually LIKE the idea of big heat alpha strikes causing more heat than sum of the weapons, I just hate the way it's implemented in this case. I find it an ugly approach, that's all.

[Nexus Omega]

The Heat Penalty System is a silly idea, a Bandaid fix to a problem which could be solved easily,

When an area takes above X Damage over say 1 seconds (Say 30, based on the 4P 6xML hunch) any extra damage is transferred to adjacent areas, (not including the head) Boom! pin point Alpha Fixed.

[Grand Ayatollah Kerensky]

To be honest, it comes down to groupthink; the people in charge have no clue how to design a Mechwarrior game, they've surrounded themselves with yes-men and they're shutting out any dissenting opinions. Add a smack of favoritism towards certain player groups and you get MWO.

[Joseph Mallan]

Nexus Omega, on 17 July 2013 - 03:51 PM, said:

The Heat Penalty System is a silly idea, ...

An Awesome cannot fire 3 PPCs(30 point Alpha) without a heat penalty

an Atlas-D-DC CAN fire, a Gauss, 2 Large lasers, and 3 SRM6 (69 point Alpha) with no heat penalty...

Yeah... That makes sense

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 17 July 2013 - 04:01 PM.

[Homeless Bill]

zazz0000, on 16 July 2013 - 11:28 PM, said:

The New Heat System?

[scJazz]

Short Answer: No!

Long Answer: Paul has no idea what he is doing. No one is capable of overriding him.

Side Note: My only regret is I can not like Homeless Bill's post more than once and it is too big for a sig.

[Unbound Inferno]

Any number of solutions (that PGi hasn't done) but I am partial to my own; http://mwomercs.com/...warrior-online/

Translate the Turn time to say 10 or 5 seconds and have the heat dissipation that fast. Then balance weapons and viola... but that's so simple it can't be done, right?

[Joseph Mallan]

Unbound Inferno, on 17 July 2013 - 04:24 PM, said:

Any number of solutions (that PGi hasn't done) but I am partial to my own; http://mwomercs.com/...warrior-online/

Translate the Turn time to say 10 or 5 seconds and have the heat dissipation that fast. Then balance weapons and viola... but that's so simple it can't be done, right?

You are correct sir.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Honestly the game will never be balanced until physics based recoil, energy generation and transfer limitations, and movement sway is added to the game.

[MisterFiveSeven]

Nexus Omega, on 17 July 2013 - 03:51 PM, said:

The Heat Penalty System is a silly idea, a Bandaid fix to a problem which could be solved easily,

When an area takes above X Damage over say 1 seconds (Say 30, based on the 4P 6xML hunch) any extra damage is transferred to adjacent areas, (not including the head) Boom! pin point Alpha Fixed.

Doing damage to a location other than where you hit is the worst idea ever.

OH ****, what if Paul reads this!?

Edited by MisterFiveSeven, 17 July 2013 - 05:02 PM.

[Gallowglas]

I'd really like for people to describe what system PGI could implement that wouldn't have a similar cry from the segment of the player base that they were clueless for adopting. Because, honestly, I think some of you are smoking something if you think there's really a consensus opinion on ANYTHING here, much less on a contentious issue like this. You may not like the system they've adopted, and that's fine. However, are you seriously more upset that they're trying out a solution rather than just letting things go?

Seriously, sometimes I just think some of you actively are looking for things to rage about.

[Angel of Annihilation]

zazz0000, on 16 July 2013 - 11:28 PM, said:

Ok... 3 PPC's get a heat penalty. Cool.

2 PPC's, 2 LL's, AC-20, LRM-20, SRM-6 alpha strike (silly, but possible) results in regular weapon heat production.

Second scenario. 2 PPC's fired. 2 more PPC's fired in .475 seconds. Full heat penalty.
2 PPC's fired. 2 more PPC's fired in .525 second. No problem.

I'm sure there are more scenarios that make even less sense than those above.
The current heat thing is easily circumvented by even a small amount of skill. One instant shot or two shots half a second apart? Still cores enemies quite well.

This is the king of bandaid fixes if I've seen one. One man's purchase of the overlord phoenix package paid handsomely for the time involved in implementing this debauch.

Keep it for now, but scrap it when underlying issues are solved! (Just as you claim that SRM damage should be lowered when hit detection is fixed)

Your missing the point. The whole reason for these changes is to discourage boating while encouraging mixed builds. This is why the 2 PPC's, 2 LL's, AC-20, LRM-20, SRM-6 alpha strike build is not penalized, simply because it is a mixed build.

Also the underlying issue your talking about is the average players tendency to min/max to the extreme and there is very little PGI can do to counter human psychology aside from illogical solutions that discourage the behavior.

[Joseph Mallan]

Gallowglas, on 17 July 2013 - 05:26 PM, said:

I'd really like for people to describe what system PGI could implement that wouldn't have a similar cry from the segment of the player base that they were clueless for adopting. Because, honestly, I think some of you are smoking something if you think there's really a consensus opinion on ANYTHING here, much less on a contentious issue like this. You may not like the system they've adopted, and that's fine. However, are you seriously more upset that they're trying out a solution rather than just letting things go?

Seriously, sometimes I just think some of you actively are looking for things to rage about.

Consensus...no. solid majority... maybe. Almost a year as a member, I have not raged against but maybe 3 issues, an none Like I am here.

And my main ride is not affected by the Heat Nerf.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 17 July 2013 - 05:40 PM.

[mania3c]

Joseph Mallan, on 17 July 2013 - 05:39 PM, said:

Consensus...no. solid majority... maybe. Almost a year as a member, I have not raged against but maybe 3 issues, an none Like I am here.

And my main ride is not affected by the Heat Nerf.

Solid majority? even in this thread there is not even sign of similar thinking ..just crying current system bad..and just throwing random ideas around (pretty much all of them are horrible anyway).. I don't like current system much either..yet..it's working.. so maybe it's good base to build on? I don't know..but in my eyes.. situation improved..