167 replies to this topic

[3rdworld]

Roughneck45, on 19 July 2013 - 06:40 AM, said:

But that's when you form the team from a predetermined tonnage limit for a competitive drop.

If the the MM would attempt to balance weight at all we would still see a greater variety of mechs, instead of having so many assaults on the field that they pretty much invalidate everything else.

how exactly would it do that?

Without some limit why would someone for no apparent reason start running mediums? Assaults & lights are the best mechs in the game. Just trying to match equal tonnage doesn't change that, the tonnage will just be in the 550 ton range.

A limit is the only way to get people to play non assault mechs, but it still does change that you want as many as you can fit in the given tonnage range.

[Lugh]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 July 2013 - 10:45 PM, said:

but I am having tons of fun with my non-optimal feeble fall over when Atlases look at me pseudo-assault mech.

Fun is not allowed here! Mwo is seriuz biznez!

3rdworld, on 19 July 2013 - 07:32 AM, said:

how exactly would it do that?

Without some limit why would someone for no apparent reason start running mediums? Assaults & lights are the best mechs in the game. Just trying to match equal tonnage doesn't change that, the tonnage will just be in the 550 ton range.

A limit is the only way to get people to play non assault mechs, but it still does change that you want as many as you can fit in the given tonnage range.

Hmm You better tell that to the teams I've been a part of even before the changes that were all heavies and mediums tearing it up.

In one case it was two Cents An Ilya and a Jagermech, we killed 6 Assaults on our own..our team won handily as a result.

[MeiSooHaityu]

ArmandTulsen, on 18 July 2013 - 04:28 PM, said:

They're a poor man's assault that act more like a beefier heavy. The assault portion of the Victor the Highlander can do better. It feels more like a Dragon with better armor, seeing as how its weaponry is gimped for its class relative to how the Dragon has less firepower for a heavy. It has a very niche role (assault skirmisher) that doesn't even need filling most of the time. I've never been in a fight where I thought to myself, "damn, I wish I was using a Victor," or, "man, we really need a Victor on our team right about now."
I can't believe I wasted close to 16M CB buying and upgrading one.
Just buy Highlanders. Seriously.

Sounds like my type of Assault. I don't pilot assault mechs because I dislike how slow and clumsy they feel to me. Because of this I pilot Heavies and Mediums. This mech might be more of my kind of Assault.

DoktorVivi, on 19 July 2013 - 07:00 AM, said:

Comparing it to a Dragon just made me want to get one because I <3 my Dragons.

I never had I dragon. I'd imagine they would be bad to pilot because...

I'd Imagine Dragons are Radioactive. See....see what I did there

[Roughneck45]

3rdworld, on 19 July 2013 - 07:32 AM, said:

how exactly would it do that?

Without some limit why would someone for no apparent reason start running mediums? Assaults & lights are the best mechs in the game. Just trying to match equal tonnage doesn't change that, the tonnage will just be in the 550 ton range.

A limit is the only way to get people to play non assault mechs, but it still does change that you want as many as you can fit in the given tonnage range.

It would have to not exceed a certain limit for a mech class, so put no more than 2-3 assaults in any given match. Assault pilots would just have to wait in the que longer than the other weight classes if everyone wants to drop in an assault.

Mediums are fun, but with the threat of fighting against an almost all heavy and assault team makes picking a medium a serious determent to your team. If the MM could actually make teams that consisted of a spread of weight classes, bringing a medium wouldn't be so bad.

At the very least, they could implement 1-1 weight class matching again, so if there is an all assault team, they are guaranteed to be fighting against another all assault team.

The randomness of the matchmaker really screws anyone bringing something smaller than a heavy, just because you are so likely to fight against a team that massively out tons your own.

Edited by Roughneck45, 19 July 2013 - 07:52 AM.

[3rdworld]

Roughneck45, on 19 July 2013 - 07:51 AM, said:

At the very least, they could implement 1-1 weight class matching again, so if there is an all assault team, they are guaranteed to be fighting against another all assault team.

AFAIK it is supposed to work that way. I guess it gets tired every now and again and decides 5 assaults need to face a team made of mostly mediums.

[Alex Warden]

it´s a "light" assault mech...what else do you expect it to be than a "slightly heavier" heavy mech? the victor finally gives us an 80 ton mech that is more useful as an assault flanking supporter than the awesome is. so the awesome can do what it´s best at: stay back and range support...

[Roughneck45]

3rdworld, on 19 July 2013 - 08:48 AM, said:

AFAIK it is supposed to work that way. I guess it gets tired every now and again and decides 5 assaults need to face a team made of mostly mediums.

It used to work that way.

Then they put in ELO and removed the 1-1 ratio.

TBH having both sounds like the best compromise to me. I'd assume their reluctance to do so has something to do with groups.

Edited by Roughneck45, 19 July 2013 - 09:02 AM.

[armyof1]

DoktorVivi, on 19 July 2013 - 07:00 AM, said:

Comparing it to a Dragon just made me want to get one because I <3 my Dragons.

As a Dragon enthusiast I can fully recommend it, especially if you're already used to Gauss+lasers in the arms with Dragons. I started up struggling at first with the Victor because the high shoulder energy on Dragons makes it possible to shoot over a lot of things and was something I used quite often, while the arm weaponry of Victor are quite low like the Dragon arms. But the JJ can compensate for that well enough as you gain a lot more mobility to get on top of and over a lot of hills and buildings, great for flanking and escaping a bad situation. I know most like the AC20 builds with Victor, but personally I'm so used to Gauss/PPC range it feels like a waste to not use what I already know pretty well from using my Dragon, so the 9K with more horisontal arm movement is clearly my favorite Victor, with Gauss, ERPPC, 2xML and SRM4+SRM6.

[Amsro]

Victor 9K is one amazing mech. Lots of armor, great mobility, fantastic firepower.

No reason to not be able to do well with ANY Victor chassis. Just like any mech they all play a little differently.

[Elyam]

The VTR has quickly become my flagship mech, taking over from the CTF-2X. While I've been concentrating on completing mastery of the 9S, I'm still considering bringing the B and K up all the way as well.

Other than the 15% of missions where wonton experimentation (a compulsion, unfortunately) brings me an early demise or limited involvement, the VTR always lets me be a major factor in the battle outcome, as any assault should be. Is it so similar to the HGN? in many ways, yes. But the ability to configure it for 5/8 speed matters. It's quick enough to let me get where the fight is, or back to save home base or reach an objective. And agility in furballs is superb.

I haven't had more than a dozen direct duels with AS7, STK, and HGN yet, but so far have won all but one against the AS7 and STK and lost twice to the HGN.

The VTR feels very tough - nearly as adamantine as an AS7. I absorb ridiculous amounts of punishment. Only 3 fights out of several dozen have resulted in arm or side torso loss.

The Victor is intended (militarily and in lore) as the mech of a patient pilot who uses higher maneuverability to avoid damage and line up strikes. This is embodied in one of BT's finest stories when Ardan Sortek in his VTR-9B took on an AWS-8Q during one of the early tales of The Kell Hounds in 3027. To understand the nature of the fight, assaults are supposed to be rare in BT and rare in use, and certainly in that era, and the AWS was unique for mounting 3 PPCs and truly considered a terrifying arrival on the field. in TT play, the Awesome really is that powerful especially due to having enough heat sinks (in the days of single sinks only) to fire those triple cannons and the armor to make up for low movement. We get tainted in MWO on the AWS due to its infamous broadside-of-a-barn torso vulnerability - but this isn't the case in original BT. Here is the text of the moment:

"Then Dan looked up as another 'Mech marched from the DropShip's titanium womb. The ground trembled beneath its massive feet. His scanners instantly studied it and provided a data readout. Humanoid in configuration, the 'Mech's hunched shoulders hid its small head. Huge winglike counterbalances for the arms projected up past the shoulders. The left arm ended in a crude club, while the scanners reported that the right arm and the twin chestmuzzles contained PPCs.
Oh, my God! Dan's mouth went dry as the Awesome filled his monitors. He shuddered as his confidence wavered like a candle in a tornado. Suddenly, he remembered what they always said at the New Avalon academy, joking to hide the terror in the thought. "It's not over until the Assault 'Mechs have finished playing."*

Then Ardan Sortek, a famed personality and pilot, steps up in his VTR-9B to take the Kurita Awesome pilot's challenge and overcomes the threat with agility and precision.

I have been glad to find that the VTR in MWO allows me to feel the traditional advantages of the Victor.

*Warrior: En Garde by Michael Stackpole

Edited by Elyam, 19 July 2013 - 02:29 PM.

[One Medic Army]

Roughneck45, on 19 July 2013 - 09:01 AM, said:

It used to work that way.

Then they put in ELO and removed the 1-1 ratio.

TBH having both sounds like the best compromise to me. I'd assume their reluctance to do so has something to do with groups.

They don't do 1 for 1, but they do try to match overall tonnage on one side vs the other.
Unfortunately this leads to assaults+lights vs mediums+heavies, and we all know how that ends.

[WVAnonymous]

Carrioncrows, on 19 July 2013 - 04:40 AM, said:

Lol, Look there is only 4 undisputed worthless mechs in the game.

Spider-5V
Spider-5K
Cicada-3C
Pretty Baby

Every other mech is arguably decent at something and the victor is decent at a lot more than one something.

I dispute that the Pretty Baby is more useless than the other Awesomes. Is there a useless tie or something?

Wrenchfarm, on 19 July 2013 - 05:30 AM, said:

Seems like such an easy thing to implement. I have no idea why it's taking them so long.

The matchmaking time would go to an hour until they get, oh, I don't know, "a lot more" players on line at once.

YeOlWardog, on 19 July 2013 - 03:53 AM, said:

Sry only 5k dammage.

Thanks for the edit, I was going to be really sad.

And for those who complain about the cost, how can you not afford any 3 CBill mechs after mastering any other 3 mechs? It takes somewhere between 60-100 matches to master anything (guessing here, and premium time and XP averages vary) and it's hard not to buy whatever crosses your level of interest.

[Roughneck45]

One Medic Army, on 19 July 2013 - 11:19 AM, said:

They don't do 1 for 1, but they do try to match overall tonnage on one side vs the other.
Unfortunately this leads to assaults+lights vs mediums+heavies, and we all know how that ends.

Seems like a shot in the dark sometimes though, with a lot of trouble with consistency.

Worst match I had yet, our side had 1 assault, 2 heavies, 3 mediums, 2 lights, and the other side consisted entirely of assaults.

Id so much rather the MM take the extra 30 seconds to balance matches so that it doesn't hand me an almost guaranteed loss.

[ArmandTulsen]

armyof1, on 19 July 2013 - 09:08 AM, said:

As a Dragon enthusiast I can fully recommend it, especially if you're already used to Gauss+lasers in the arms with Dragons. I started up struggling at first with the Victor because the high shoulder energy on Dragons makes it possible to shoot over a lot of things and was something I used quite often, while the arm weaponry of Victor are quite low like the Dragon arms. But the JJ can compensate for that well enough as you gain a lot more mobility to get on top of and over a lot of hills and buildings, great for flanking and escaping a bad situation. I know most like the AC20 builds with Victor, but personally I'm so used to Gauss/PPC range it feels like a waste to not use what I already know pretty well from using my Dragon, so the 9K with more horisontal arm movement is clearly my favorite Victor, with Gauss, ERPPC, 2xML and SRM4+SRM6.

How did you fit all of that?

[Bishop Steiner]

ArmandTulsen, on 19 July 2013 - 02:34 PM, said:

How did you fit all of that?

probably something like this
VTR-9K

You can fit up to a 350 XL if you are willing to drop 3 DHS and run pretty hot. Or drop a coupla tons of ammo. Neither of which appeal to me.

or a version with a little more..... ME.
Striker Eureka

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 19 July 2013 - 02:51 PM.

[armyof1]

ArmandTulsen, on 19 July 2013 - 02:34 PM, said:

How did you fit all of that?

VTR-9K

It's slightly slower than what I like without speed tweak, but once fully Elited it feels quite nimble. It's right now the most successful mech I've ever run, actually by quite a margin.

[ArmandTulsen]

armyof1, on 19 July 2013 - 02:54 PM, said:

VTR-9K

It's slightly slower than what I like without speed tweak, but once fully Elited it feels quite nimble. It's right now the most successful mech I've ever run, actually by quite a margin.

Thanks.After much deliberation, I've decided to give this chassis another go. After all, it's Davion's flagship mech and I will be playing Davion all the way when CW rolls around.

[XX Sulla XX]

Let us know how it turns out.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Anjian, on 18 July 2013 - 09:26 PM, said:

Proof by epeening while teaming with premades and claiming it works for you, doesn't make it the best mech in the game. I have seen Spiders with 3 or 4 kills in the game, with damages as high as 600. Does it prove anything?

If PGI would release the big data they have on their servers, I believe the most damaging mech in the game with the highest KDRs would be Jagermechs.

Except that I have never run as anything other than a PUG and pull similar numbers to Bishop Steiner all the time.

Also don't think anyone is saying the Victor is the best mech ever. What we are saying is that it is a excellent mech that can be very competitive as long as you get the playstyle and use it according to that playstyle.

Simple as that.

[armyof1]

ArmandTulsen, on 19 July 2013 - 03:36 PM, said:

Thanks.After much deliberation, I've decided to give this chassis another go. After all, it's Davion's flagship mech and I will be playing Davion all the way when CW rolls around.

I hope you'll like it with some more playing time. My first two hours running a Victor (bought it on the testserver before it was released for CBills) I was quite unimpressed too. But after getting used to all long-range weapons are in the arms and work around it using JJ to get into good positions, it's quickly becoming one of my favorite mechs.