592 replies to this topic

[Viper69]

I honestly hate to be a Debby downer but I am going to. I have given up on this game ever getting to a point where it is anything more than what it is now. I admire you folks who do hold out hope and still financially support the game but myself I have shut off the money hose because for me the game has not changed for the better since closed beta. I have few gaming hours in a week and I choose to not spend it on this game any more. I do wish you luck trying to rehabilitate this game but the developers dont listen to what a majority of at least forum goers do not want 3pv and yet they wont tell us where they get numbers saying a greater amount want 3pv. Bryan and Paul have lost all sense of integrity in my eyes and short of leaving PGI would get me to respect them.

You probably ask "If you care so little for a game why post?" because of the investment I have in it and my want to voice my displeasure. That is why. I wish the game good fortune hopefully without the two aforementioned people.

Edited by Viper69, 23 July 2013 - 09:26 AM.

[Gwaihir]

^^ A great many of us, that have spent, really, far too much on the game, have stopped buying any MC and held off or gotten refunds on Phoenix purchases.
We're not under any great illusion about the immediate impact we can have, but I think many of us still fundamentally like the game and the potential it has in order to give it a shot.
I mean, this gets buried beneath the sea of negativity a lot, but really, the fundamental combat and feel of piloting mechs in this game is ******* amazing. The look, feel, sound, and solidity of how the weapons fire and impact are all really damned good, which is quite a feat to get right. That's why it's so frustrating to so many people, to have what is fundamentally a really solid game get ruined by being shackled to awful TT numbers (Which never should have been used as a basis for a real time FPS/sim game) and stale haphazard balancing.

Edited by Gwaihir, 23 July 2013 - 09:37 AM.

[starkk]

Gwaihir, on 23 July 2013 - 09:36 AM, said:

I mean, this gets buried beneath the sea of negativity a lot, but really, the fundamental combat and feel of piloting mechs in this game is ******* amazing. The look, feel, sound, and solidity of how the weapons fire and impact are all really damned good, which is quite a feat to get right.

Indeed.

[Ritterzero]

Just throwing my support in for this. Hopefully there is a chance that PGI will wake up.

[Viper69]

Ritterzero, on 23 July 2013 - 09:48 AM, said:

Just throwing my support in for this. Hopefully there is a chance that PGI will wake up.

The alarm has been beeping for 6+months and they keep snoozing it. Soon the battery is going to run dead and they wont wake up till its too late.

[Chronojam]

TheDeckardCain, on 22 July 2013 - 11:41 PM, said:

The Goons have never *saved* anything. They are nothing more than a manipulative bunch who further their own interests over all.

Try punching "SomethingAwful charity" into google before you make a fool of yourself.

Viper69, on 23 July 2013 - 09:26 AM, said:

I honestly hate to be a Debby downer but I am going to. I have given up on this game ever getting to a point where it is anything more than what it is now. I admire you folks who do hold out hope and still financially support the game but myself I have shut off the money hose because for me the game has not changed for the better since closed beta. I have few gaming hours in a week and I choose to not spend it on this game any more. I do wish you luck trying to rehabilitate this game but the developers dont listen to what a majority of at least forum goers do not want 3pv and yet they wont tell us where they get numbers saying a greater amount want 3pv. Bryan and Paul have lost all sense of integrity in my eyes and short of leaving PGI would get me to respect them.

You probably ask "If you care so little for a game why post?" because of the investment I have in it and my want to voice my displeasure. That is why. I wish the game good fortune hopefully without the two aforementioned people.

Nobody here will judge you for disliking something and seeking to make it better, especially given investment. A lot of us are in the same boat and are disillusioned. Like you, a lot of us who have been playing since the closed beta have enjoyed a much better MWO experience that newer players never got to see -- so we know MWO wasn't always so dull in its play, and we know just how much it has slid away from where it ought to be. I'm sure, like you, many posting in this thread no longer set aside as much time as they once did, and no longer play straight through a Saturday night. If you can find the time, show up on Thursday.

[Stalkerr]

If anyone's wondering why I haven't responded to your PMs, it's not because I don't love you. I'm settling some work obligations today and will be going through the PMs tonight to organize things. Some groups have multiple reps signed up, so I'm going to email each "unit" of people to try to narrow it down to 1 rep per group, to keep things running smoothly at the Town Hall. Look for PMs this evening.

Thanks for the great response!

[Orzorn]

Made a thread on our internal forums inviting the rest of the Remnant, ChronoJam.

I can't guarantee any of them will show up, although I can probably guarantee I won't be able to (vehicular troubles have plagued my life for the last two weeks. Ripping my hair out).

Still, I'll try to spread the thread for ya'll.

[Zany]

Thanks for setting this up goons. I wholeheartedly approve of this effort. I'm looking forward to the transcript on friday.

Hopefully, PGI will take this seriously.

Edited by Zany, 23 July 2013 - 10:39 AM.

[JadeRaven]

Thanks for all the support mechbros. If you are the head of a player run organization and haven't already pmed Stalkerr please do so at your earliest convenience.

[Stormwolf]

They would need to rebalance the entire game from scratch again if you want to get something that remotely resembles balance.

The biggest problem here is that they kept the parts of the TT that obviously are not going to work in a real-time game. I'm talking about the fact that cooling is calculated for 10 secons like a TT turn while the weapons recharge in a fraction of that time.

I could drone on about double heatsinks, ECM, BAP, targeting mechanics, etc, but it probably won't do any good.


Anyway, I applaud SA for this effort, but PGI's track record here isn't exactly something to write home about.

Edited by Stormwolf, 23 July 2013 - 11:52 AM.

[BFett]

Here are the results of what the community wanted in MWO way back in November of 2011. Maybe it's time to make a similar poll with the information we have now and see if the stats stay the same (I'm betting they are).

[Gwaihir]

Stormwolf, on 23 July 2013 - 11:51 AM, said:

They would need to rebalance the entire game from scratch again if you want to get something that remotely resembles balance. The biggest problem here is that they kept the parts of the TT that obviously are not going to work in a real-time game. I'm talking about the fact that cooling is calculated for 10 secons like a TT turn while the weapons recharge in a fraction of that time. I could drone on about double heatsinks, ECM, BAP, targeting mechanics, etc, but it probably won't do any good. Anyway, I applaud SA for this effort, but PGI's track record here isn't exactly something to write home about.

The TT stuff is a real double whammy of awful. Not only is it poorly balanced and translated by default, but the trial mechs, the mechs that a brand new player is going to be using first thing, are unmitigated disasters of mishmashed battletech bracket build uselessness. Even in the kiddie pool elo range that a new player starts off in, giving them hillariously under-armored, sinked, and/or ammo'ed mechs is just a recipe for frustration and quitting.

Sure, cadet bonuses help get away from these deathtraps, but some stock mechs are so bad that a new player picking up the game likely won't even get that far. I mean, look at any stock Jagermech. At best, it has a mere 1 ton more armor than a Jenner-F, while still being loaded with really bad things like CT ammo stores.

I just want to personally keep trying to hammer it home that fundamentally, the game has really god damned great potential, it's just being hamstrung by an absurd adherence to tabletop/cannon battletech things.

[Chronojam]

BFett, on 23 July 2013 - 12:12 PM, said:

Here are the results of what the community wanted in MWO way back in November of 2011. Maybe it's time to make a similar poll with the information we have now and see if the stats stay the same (I'm betting they are).

That's an excellent idea. Here's the list of player priorities at the time of the survey:
#1 Tactics (welp, this is right out)
#2 The ability to team up with or against friends (the matchmaker and queue shenanigans make this difficult)
#3 Realism/immersion (PGI's art team has done a damn fine job)
#4 Salvage and the need to shop for 'Mech parts (salvage is barely in as a minor c-bill bonus, repair & re-arm are gone)
#5 Complex damage models (broken splash damage, CT-seeker Streaks, underwhelming damaged-suffering-criticals implementation, poor heat penalty implementation)
#6 Highly detailed control schemes (A lright)
#7 Special effects (PGI's art team has done a damn fine job)
#8 Ranked play (we can't even link our stats to other players)
#9 Ease of access for new players (ouch, guys, really? ) (a big problem, gotten worse)
#10 The ability to command AI 'Mechs or vehicles (ruled out, and 'airstrikes' are pathetic)

[PropagandaWar]

Chronojam, on 23 July 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

That's an excellent idea. Here's the list of player priorities at the time of the survey:

#10 The ability to command AI 'Mechs or vehicles (ruled out, and 'airstrikes' are pathetic)

LIES! Airstrikes are awesome! Arty is AwsomeR! Now where's my Diaper...

[TheMagician]

UI 2.0 is supposed to streamline the new user experience. Or so they say. But they haven't mentioned how it will do so. They've said that 3rd person is a part of this, and that perhaps new users will only be paired up with other new players for their first X amount of games. But, I agree with others, and have asked for it in the past, that they need to trash all of the 'stock mechs' and PGI needs to make their own set of 'trial mechs'. I was told, 'but then a player will go from a good trial mech, to buying one of the stock mechs.' This doesn't have to be the case. They should streamline the game, and make it so that a player buys quality mechs. One option is to replace all the trial mechs with the champion mechs (and make more champion mechs, at least 1 for each chassi).

Also, something that is useful is to have some form of guides built in the game. One way to do this is to sell 'variant kits' for mechs. So a new player can say "okay I want to buy an Atlas-DDC, and I'll buy the Brawler Variant Kit, which has '2 LL, standard 325, AC20, and 3SRM6+Artemis' Its' giong to cost me 9 million cbills or 500 MC. Well I don't play enough to spend those cbills, so I'll buy it with MC."

Now when I see a new player, and they want to know what to get I can say 'Get the Jenner F, and search for the '6Gun Special kit' and they can go do that, and have a mech ready to go. Yes, players could submit kits too, which players can find by searching for them. This is similar to in DOTA2 with character guides, and some online-only action FPSs with kits. Hell, they could even go the route of having kits be cheaper to buy it for '7 days' so that people can try something out before fully committing to it. Lots of options.

Edited by TheMagician, 23 July 2013 - 01:41 PM.

[GaussDragon]

BFett, on 23 July 2013 - 12:12 PM, said:

Here are the results of what the community wanted in MWO way back in November of 2011. Maybe it's time to make a similar poll with the information we have now and see if the stats stay the same (I'm betting they are).

Or this one I started in January where the top concerns were:
1. Community warfare
2. Netcode
3. Close between more maps and balance

Since that time we've gotten HSR and more maps so I can only presume that that would therefore put balance higher up on the list had this poll been taken this week.

http://mwomercs.com/...__fromsearch__1

Edited by GaussDragon, 23 July 2013 - 01:52 PM.

[Stormwolf]

Gwaihir, on 23 July 2013 - 12:27 PM, said:

The TT stuff is a real double whammy of awful. Not only is it poorly balanced and translated by default, but the trial mechs, the mechs that a brand new player is going to be using first thing, are unmitigated disasters of mishmashed battletech bracket build uselessness. Even in the kiddie pool elo range that a new player starts off in, giving them hillariously under-armored, sinked, and/or ammo'ed mechs is just a recipe for frustration and quitting.

Sure, cadet bonuses help get away from these deathtraps, but some stock mechs are so bad that a new player picking up the game likely won't even get that far. I mean, look at any stock Jagermech. At best, it has a mere 1 ton more armor than a Jenner-F, while still being loaded with really bad things like CT ammo stores.

The majority of designs are based around 3025/3039 tech while level 2 TRO3050 gear is around. The entire point of level 2 tech was to give the IS side a fighting chance against the Clans, the older stock builds wouldn't stand a chance against them even with balanced stats.

At any rate, the Jagermech is primarily a anti-aircraft mech, the stockbuilds are useless in a game without aircraft.
Even more so, the Spider SDR-5D is a anti-infantry mech, those MG's are really poor weapons against mechs.

Quote

I just want to personally keep trying to hammer it home that fundamentally, the game has really god damned great potential, it's just being hamstrung by an absurd adherence to tabletop/cannon battletech things.

What game are you playing? The lack of canon drove me away from MWO.

[fil5000]

Stormwolf, on 23 July 2013 - 02:00 PM, said:

What game are you playing? The lack of canon drove me away from MWO.

Weapon tonnage and slots for one thing, and the damage levels on ballistics for another. Canon values weren't a bad place to start, but there's no reason we should still be as close to them as we are in a game that throws out the randomised nature of TT piloting and shooting.

[Stormwolf]

fil5000, on 23 July 2013 - 02:05 PM, said:

Weapon tonnage and slots for one thing, and the damage levels on ballistics for another. Canon values weren't a bad place to start, but there's no reason we should still be as close to them as we are in a game that throws out the randomised nature of TT piloting and shooting.

Those are the bare bones of what goes into a mech once again, the real difference here comes with level 2 tech. The standard AC was pretty much made obsolete with the coming of the LBX and Ultra variants, but it still has merit in era approriate games. Selecting a era you like is currently one of the strengths of the TT.

Anyway, there have been many suggestions for targeting at range that don't allow for pin point accuracy. But I guess that people just can't get the old fashioned shooters out of their heads.

Your mech is supposed to have a targeting system that allows you to lock on to a enemy and somewhat helps you with aiming. Here you can implement the long, medium and short range brackets that all weapons are statted with. It would also make the actual targeting computer viable.