519 replies to this topic

[FupDup]

Belorion, on 26 July 2013 - 09:18 AM, said:

I heard the term zombie hunchback way before people ever talked about the zombie cent.

The point is, that when they could go fast... the fastback was the thing everyone cried about, but you didn't see it anymore than any of the other "cheese builds" they nerfed the hunch engine speed, and one cheese build dissapeared, while the others (a lesser subset) remained.

The Fastback 4P owed its temporary dominance to borked netcode where its hitscan lasers could hit stuff more reliably than projectile weapons, and I also think SHS-only (no DHS at that time?) meant that it could boat a whole lot of Small Lasers that were heat efficient as hell (1 heat each back then) while everyone else was overheating.

Belorion, on 26 July 2013 - 09:18 AM, said:

ETA: Restricting builds isn't the way to attain balance.

Alright, find a way to make the Awesome not suck then. And don't say "fix hitboxes" because then it will end up superior to other mechs of similar weight or it'll still not be good enough.

Take your time.

Edited by FupDup, 26 July 2013 - 09:23 AM.

[PropagandaWar]

FupDup, on 26 July 2013 - 08:55 AM, said:

The solution to that issue is to just buff the weapons that are currently bad, meaning that each individual weapon would actually have a valid place. Hardpoints wouldn't be able to screw you over if all weapons were useful--because then your robot could just carry whatever useful weapons that it's allowed to.

only weapon I really see as somewhat suckish is the LBX and pulses mainly lbx's though. I hear the rant on MG's but pfft they're mg's, which you can fire nont stop and get a butt-ton of ammo. Now when I say this Im talking the weapon itself, not convergence or heat etc etc. I think adding heat to the ppcs a good thing. I cant argue about streaks because we know streak 6's will be brutal. The heat thing I'm 50/50 on. Its one of the few iterations from tt that I think would be cool, but they would need to rework the heatscale to speed up and only have things like movement/convergence/effective if they stayed at said amount of heat for a x-amount of time.

[East Indy]

FupDup, on 26 July 2013 - 09:04 AM, said:

Why would I ever drive an Awesome with the MW3 mechlab if a Stalker can do the same stuff but is harder to hit and can tank more damage due to hitboxes?

You wouldn't; you're correct. The Awesome's plain vulnerabilities would make sense if it were the only 'Mech that could carry three PPCs.

Even though hardpoint restrictions would shift some trend behavior toward 'Mech models instead of loadouts, it's a strong argument in favor. Seeing a lot of Awesomes would always carry a "but . . . " caveat that players could accept.

Even though I'd prefer limited hardpoints, I respect the game designer's natural reluctance to completely prevent customization, and recognize that it's Piranha's call to make.

Edited by East Indy, 26 July 2013 - 09:27 AM.

[hammerreborn]

WarHippy, on 26 July 2013 - 08:54 AM, said:

You may not be an employee but you still have an association with them, and you should still behave in a way that does not harm the view of the company. Just because you have a moderator tag to hide behind does not mean you should get to skirt the forum rules.

As for your post Hammerreborn I find it kind of ironic seeing as you also often exhibit Harassing or Defamatory
behavior so in the case of getting the axe remember it swings both ways.

And it has swung my way plenty of times, and I would be more than happy to take another hit if it meant never seeing these stupid sigs again by the try hard rage harder squads.

Edited by hammerreborn, 26 July 2013 - 09:52 AM.

[Henchman 24]

Zakerystrife, on 25 July 2013 - 02:21 PM, said:

I really like seeing these updates, and excited for the new map! The ER/PPC heat nerf is needed for sure, and generally I like where this is going for lights and mediums. Keep up the good work guys! To whomever seems to think capping is a bad thing, why don't you just defend your cap points?

NOW FOR THE RANT - I'm getting sick of people only complaining that stuff isn't getting out fast enough. You guys really think its as simple as "1+1 = 2" YAY!!!!!...? NO, it doesn't work that way. They need to change game code constantly with each and every single update, and its not like it just magically works. You put in new code that can conflict with existing code which then causes a bug, THEN they need to try to fix before it hits our client. People really need to understand how a development process WORKS, before just nagging and complaining about it. I think we all just need to calm down and enjoy the game!

-The Ginger Overlord, Zakerystrife

How cute...get this now, a large chunk of us have been listening to this sort of 'dodge the issue' postings for well over a year now.

You're getting sick? Mister 9 posts?

Sit down, and pay attention to those with vested interests and good ideas to help...and watch them be ignored in large part. Deal with that for like 6 months, and THEN come back with your angst. We all know how this works...and in case you didn't notice....there ARE some developers who play this, and even they are at times flabbergasted as to the excuses and moves PGI takes.

Not everyone who has had time with this title under their belt, finds it so easy to pull the optimistic hat on...and I swear some of you have it permanently fastened with rivets or something. I'm no big fan of pessimism either...I prefer to take a realistic view, and that view is built on a history of previous events that have reinforced it, something called experience. Build up some, and maybe you'd feel differently.

[Chronojam]

HIemfire, on 26 July 2013 - 05:00 AM, said:

You do realize a fairly large portion of us fall into the 25 and over "wage slave" category thus really don't get a "summer vacation"?

You do realize that Europeans actually get more than a week or two of time off for summer, many businesses employ "summer hours," and there's no inherent 18+ restrictions on this title. Stompy robots appeal to grad/undergrad students and highschool kids, or should. If it's not scooping that audience something's gone wrong.

[Rasako]

FupDup, on 26 July 2013 - 09:04 AM, said:

Doesn't seem to help the Awesome or the Hunchback 4SP (when compared to the famous Zombie Centurion).


Let's go hyperbole and pretend that we went full MW3 style and let people mount anything, anywhere so long as you had the slots and tonnage to handle it. Would such a change help the Awesome or Hunchie 4SP? Why would I ever drive an Awesome with the MW3 mechlab if a Stalker can do the same stuff but is harder to hit and can tank more damage due to hitboxes?

this is proof that the community will complain about anything even if said thing they're complaining about has already been proven to be utterly useless, considering thats what ALL medium mechs currently are. hell, they aren't even use LESS! they have no use whatsoever!

[PoLaR]

Can;t wait for Terra-Therma Tuesday! I'll be on vacation too, woo!!

[FupDup]

Rasako, on 26 July 2013 - 09:54 AM, said:

this is proof that the community will complain about anything even if said thing they're complaining about has already been proven to be utterly useless, considering thats what ALL medium mechs currently are. hell, they aren't even use LESS! they have no use whatsoever!

Well then, I guess I'm sorry for wanting underloved mechs to have a place. Silly me.
------
As for mediums, the Zombie Cent seems to be doing fine (most others not so much though...).

[hammerreborn]

FupDup, on 26 July 2013 - 09:58 AM, said:

Well then, I guess I'm sorry for wanting underloved mechs to have a place. Silly me.
------
As for mediums, the Zombie Cent seems to be doing fine (most others not so much though...).

Cicadas are about equal to jenners which are top dog in the light realm

[Kraven Kor]

Niko Snow, on 26 July 2013 - 09:54 AM, said:

Remember people: There's a difference between negative critique and non-constructive hollering.

If you want to be negative: Please point out what is bothering you and try to suggest an improvement.
Otherwise: Off-topic remarks, insults directed to staff, discussion of moderation, and any other violations of the Code of Conduct will not be tolerated.

If you cannot accept these conditions: Contact us at support@mwomercs.com with your feedback instead.

The problem is, we have been.

We have been making constructive posts and offering ideas.

We have asked, not for some overnight miracle cure, but for information that would... alleviate our concerns. Renew our faith.

Seriously - look through the posting histories of a few of the most vocal complainers.

You will see Founder after Founder go from "We love PGI! Yay! Great patch! Love the new mech! Give them time, this stuff is hard! They'll get it right!"

-to-

Well... what you see now.

I'm not saying the vitriol some have moved on to displaying is right or justified, but can one at least see how we got here?

Are we really going to blame the players, wholly, for the problems in regards to the customer relationship we see on display here?

Edited by Kraven Kor, 26 July 2013 - 10:06 AM.

[FupDup]

hammerreborn, on 26 July 2013 - 10:06 AM, said:

Cicadas are about equal to jenners which are top dog in the light realm

Well, 'Cadas are larger in size (easier to hit) and usually can't go as fast unless you sacrifice a whole of weight into a big engine (optimal engine for Cicadas is around 300-ish last time I heard), and of course it doesn't have JJ's so the Jenner still has some edges over it.


But hey, at least it gets 4 MACHINE GUNS OF DOOOOOOM! Oh wait...

Edited by FupDup, 26 July 2013 - 10:11 AM.

[Belorion]

Kraven Kor, on 26 July 2013 - 10:06 AM, said:

The problem is, we have been.
We have been making constructive posts and offering ideas.
We have asked, not for some overnight miracle cure, but for information that would... alleviate our concerns. Renew our faith.
Seriously - look through the posting histories of a few of the most vocal complainers.

You will see Founder after Founder go from "We love PGI! Yay! Great patch! Love the new mech! Give them time, this stuff is hard! They'll get it right!"

-to-

Well... what you see now.

I'm not saying the vitriol some have moved on to displaying is right or justified, but can one at least see how we got here?
Are we really going to blame the players, wholly, for the problems in regards to the customer relationship we see on display here?

Not so much. Many of the complaints from the crowd that complains the most is very non-specific. I saw the letter to PGI that the #saveMWO crowd came up with and I have to say, it doesn't really say anything. The only two things that weren't something PGI is already working that were specific enough to address were the problem with groups dropping in pug, and a demand for a road map detailing lobbies. The former being something that PGI to placate the demands of the people on the forum, and the later being completely tangential to the actual mechanics of the game.

In short the only thing concrete about the game the letter came up with was a complaint about something PGI did because the forums wanted it.

[hammerreborn]

FupDup, on 26 July 2013 - 10:09 AM, said:

Well, 'Cadas are larger in size (easier to hit) and usually can't go as fast unless you sacrifice a whole of weight into a big engine (optimal engine is around 300-ish I heard), and of course it doesn't have JJ's so the Jenner still has some edges over it.


But hey, at least it gets 4 MACHINE GUNS OF DOOOOOOM! Oh wait...

Both:
Pros: Speed, 6 lasers
Cons: Giant CTs of death

Cicada:
Pros: More armor, more weight (though taken up by larger engine), ECM
Cons: slightly larger, less manueverable

Jenner:
Pros: JJs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cons: No ECM, less armor, smaller profile


Honestly, at the end of the day you're choosing between ECM and JJs. They are fairly identical otherwise.

Edited by hammerreborn, 26 July 2013 - 10:13 AM.

[FupDup]

hammerreborn, on 26 July 2013 - 10:12 AM, said:

Jenner:
Pros: JJs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cons: No ECM, less armor, smaller profile

Smaller profile isn't a con.


Oh, and the total armor capacities aren't all that different. For instance, the Jenner can hold a maximum of 44 armor in its CT (split between rear and front) and the Cicada can hold 48 (although it also has slightly higher internal health).

Edited by FupDup, 26 July 2013 - 10:16 AM.

[hammerreborn]

FupDup, on 26 July 2013 - 10:13 AM, said:

Smaller profile isn't a con.

I didn't want to mess with my !!! for JJs

[Tolkien]

hammerreborn, on 26 July 2013 - 06:25 AM, said:

And this is where you cite numbers and not anecdotal bs?

And would you prefer they just put 3rd with everyone? I wouldn't mind, but I think it'd make the try hards rage

You make yourself very hard to get along with but I'll help you out. http://www.xfire.com/games/mwo

The average per day during december was around 120-140, so it's fallen by 1/3 in the last 6 months. It's currently the ~230th most popular game tracked by Xfire for PC.

(I know xfire is a small cross section of gamers but it's the best data we have on the actual number of players playing this game daily as compared to other titles, and as compared over time.)

[Chronojam]

Tolkien, on 26 July 2013 - 10:15 AM, said:

You make yourself very hard to get along with but I'll help you out. http://www.xfire.com/games/mwo

The average per day during december was around 120-140, so it's fallen by 1/3 in the last 6 months. It's currently the ~230th most popular game tracked by Xfire for PC.

(I know xfire is a small cross section of gamers but it's the best data we have on the actual number of players playing this game daily as compared to other titles, and as compared over time.)

You already provided this in the very post about which he claimed you provided no evidence. I expect he will dismiss the numbers offhand with a snarky comment, because it runs contrary to his own narrative and he's not legitimately interested in addressing any issues.

[Wieland]

Tolkien, on 26 July 2013 - 10:15 AM, said:

You make yourself very hard to get along with but I'll help you out. http://www.xfire.com/games/mwo

The average per day during december was around 120-140, so it's fallen by 1/3 in the last 6 months. It's currently the ~230th most popular game tracked by Xfire for PC.

(I know xfire is a small cross section of gamers but it's the best data we have on the actual number of players playing this game daily as compared to other titles, and as compared over time.)

Chronojam, on 26 July 2013 - 10:17 AM, said:

You already provided this in the very post about which he claimed you provided no evidence. I expect he will dismiss the numbers offhand with a snarky comment, because it runs contrary to his own narrative and he's not legitimately interested in addressing any issues.

Gamers on Xfire are not the target audience.

[Chronojam]

Niko Snow, on 26 July 2013 - 10:17 AM, said:

Yes. Each player agreed to the Terms of Use, each player must abide by the Code of Conduct.
Neither these rules nor the basic standards of respect and dignity change simply because they happen to be unhappy with the pace of development or are frustrated that their idea wasn't picked above others for a solution to gameplay balance concerns. As per my caution, you can vent those feelings publicly if you so desire, but do so with the Conduct in mind.

Niko Snow does the code of conduct actually have any passages that would prevent a user from expressing frustration that a community moderator is trying to run off players? Because I only see references to discussing communication with GMs, not quoting and replying to community moderators publicly making posts with the intent of running off players. Please clarify, the code of conduct explicitly deals with "disciplinary actions" but the interpretation in this thread appears to now apply to "anything community moderators say in any context."

[[A: Defamation would cover this. It applies to all players and not just Volunteer Moderators.]]

Edited by Niko Snow, 26 July 2013 - 11:10 AM.
Answered