519 replies to this topic

[Bilbo]

Kunae, on 26 July 2013 - 08:30 AM, said:

The spider desperately needs a hitbox revamp, similar to what the Raven got in the beginning of this year.

Spiders have only recently become super-mechs. I would guess that has more to do with the hit registration issues than the hit boxes.

[Mason Grimm]

WarHippy, on 26 July 2013 - 08:30 AM, said:

You call the snarky attitude you display "playing nice"? Don't get me wrong I think the mods should get some form of compensation for what they do, but sometimes they make it hard to justify.

Believe me, that is playing nice. If I was King for a Day........

Also, since we aren't actual employees of the company, we don't have to run PR; we are players with opinions of players. Moderators are not in place to be liked, pals, drinking buddies or Best Forum Person Evah, we exist solely to ensure that the Code of Conduct is enforced (read: clean-up on isle 6 or "Mason, move that thread to its proper location dimwit"), and maybe to answer questions if we can help; oh also to stand still if MiSs or Niko or Paul need a whipping boy (or girl).

EDIT: Daumantas Galland if you could change FOOD to MC that would be great! Also, he has more hair than I do and those Mach 3 razors are expensive so maybe add that to the list too plz. KTHX

Edited by Mason Grimm, 26 July 2013 - 08:43 AM.

[hammerreborn]

WarHippy, on 26 July 2013 - 08:30 AM, said:

You call the snarky attitude you display "playing nice"? Don't get me wrong I think the mods should get some form of compensation for what they do, but sometimes they make it hard to justify.

They do play nice. If it was up to me every single user with those PGI "we know what we're doing" image sigs would get the hammer for breaking:

Harassing or Defamatory

This category includes both clear and masked language and/or links to websites containing such language or images which:

• Insultingly refer to other characters, players, Piranha Games Inc. employees, or groups of people
  
• Result in ongoing harassment to other characters, players, Piranha Games Inc. employees, or groups of people

If a player is found to have participated in such actions, he/she will:

• Be given a temporary ban from the forums, depending upon severity

Harassment takes many forms, and is not necessarily limited to the type of language used, but the intent. Repeatedly targeting a specific player with harassment can lead to more severe action. The idea behind this is to prevent any one player from consistently being uncomfortable in the forums.

Edited by hammerreborn, 26 July 2013 - 08:43 AM.

[FupDup]

Belorion, on 26 July 2013 - 08:35 AM, said:

I have seen the backward logic explanations of how people thing restricting choice creates bigger diversity in game. Quite simply, they are wrong. The logic is flawed, and restricting choice would be a nail in the coffin which would be hard to undo the damage once put in place.

It depends on whether you're talking about diversity of the entire mech pool or only about a single mech. If you isolate a single mech in a vacuum, then yes you do indeed reduce the number of total possible loadouts on that one individual mech because it would no longer be a gunbag that can become anything.


HOWEVER, if you compare the entire set of mechs in the game (the big picture), then it does in fact encourage the usage of more overall mechs (even though each individual mech has fewer loadout options). For instance, the Stalker and Highlander are currently 100% superior to the Awesome for PPC carrying. With some hardpoint adjustments, the Awesome could have the role of being a better PPC boat (or other large energy weapons in the future), while still leaving the Stalker and Highlander with valid roles of their own. Right now, it's about mostly about finding the robot with the best hitboxes because most of them can mimic the same loadouts.

Edited by FupDup, 26 July 2013 - 08:52 AM.

[Deathlike]

Gallowglas, on 26 July 2013 - 08:38 AM, said:

I know it's not exactly what you're talking about, but the two are related.

They are related, but nowhere in the same context. One is in reference to the netcode/HSR... the other is in reference to where you damage the other mech based on the location of the connecting shot.

People have wanted the Awesome's hitboxes changed, so it isn't the literal broadside of the barn that people keep referring to it as. I personally like the idea that the Awesome's arms are more like the Centurion, so that torso twisting (at least in terms of relative speed) gives it the opportunity to survive the same way the Cent does.

That's just reworking hitboxes... the models themselves... that's a whole different beast to tackle.

Edited by Deathlike, 26 July 2013 - 08:58 AM.

[Senior Knight Steele]

hammerreborn, on 26 July 2013 - 08:42 AM, said:

They do play nice. If it was up to me every single user with those PGI "we know what we're doing" image sigs would get the hammer for breaking:

Harassing or Defamatory

This category includes both clear and masked language and/or links to websites containing such language or images which:

• Insultingly refer to other characters, players, Piranha Games Inc. employees, or groups of people
  
• Result in ongoing harassment to other characters, players, Piranha Games Inc. employees, or groups of people

If a player is found to have participated in such actions, he/she will:

• Be given a temporary ban from the forums, depending upon severity

Harassment takes many forms, and is not necessarily limited to the type of language used, but the intent. Repeatedly targeting a specific player with harassment can lead to more severe action. The idea behind this is to prevent any one player from consistently being uncomfortable in the forums.

This.

[Belorion]

FupDup, on 26 July 2013 - 08:46 AM, said:

It depends on whether you're talking about diversity of the entire mech pool or only about a single mech. If you isolate a single mech in a vacuum, then yes you do indeed reduce the number of total possible loadouts on that one individual mech because it would no longer be a gunbag that can become anything.


HOWEVER, if you compare the entire set of mechs in the game (the big picture), then it does in fact encourage the usage of more overall mechs. For instance, the Stalker and Highlander are currently 100% superior to the Awesome for PPC carrying. With some hardpoint adjustments, the Awesome could have the role of being a better PPC boat, while still leaving the Stalker and Highlander with valid roles of their own. Right now, it's about mostly about finding the robot with the best hitboxes because most of them can mimic the same loadouts.

Lets say there are 15 (random number) builds that are op/cheese/fotm builds that everyone is running. They implement restrictions that cause 7 (again another random number) of those builds to no longer be viable. There are now only 8 builds that people are running instead of 15.

[WarHippy]

Mason Grimm, on 26 July 2013 - 08:40 AM, said:

Believe me, that is playing nice. If I was King for a Day........

Also, since we aren't actual employees of the company, we don't have to run PR; we are players with opinions of players. Moderators are not in place to be liked, pals, drinking buddies or Best Forum Person Evah, we exist solely to ensure that the Code of Conduct is enforced (read: clean-up on isle 6 or "Mason, move that thread to its proper location dimwit"), and maybe to answer questions if we can help; oh also to stand still if MiSs or Niko or Paul need a whipping boy (or girl).

EDIT: Daumantas Galland if you could change FOOD to MC that would be great! Also, he has more hair than I do and those Mach 3 razors are expensive so maybe add that to the list too plz. KTHX

You may not be an employee but you still have an association with them, and you should still behave in a way that does not harm the view of the company. Just because you have a moderator tag to hide behind does not mean you should get to skirt the forum rules.

As for your post Hammerreborn I find it kind of ironic seeing as you also often exhibit Harassing or Defamatory
behavior so in the case of getting the axe remember it swings both ways.

[FupDup]

Belorion, on 26 July 2013 - 08:53 AM, said:

Lets say there are 15 (random number) builds that are op/cheese/fotm builds that everyone is running. They implement restrictions that cause 7 (again another random number) of those builds to no longer be viable. There are now only 8 builds that people are running instead of 15.

The solution to that issue is to just buff the weapons that are currently bad, meaning that each individual weapon would actually have a valid place. Hardpoints wouldn't be able to screw you over if all weapons were useful--because then your robot could just carry whatever useful weapons that it's allowed to.

Edited by FupDup, 26 July 2013 - 08:58 AM.

[Belorion]

FupDup, on 26 July 2013 - 08:55 AM, said:

The solution to that issue is to just buff weapons that are currently bad, meaning that each individual weapon has a valid place. Hardpoints wouldn't be able to screw you over if all weapons were useful--because then your robot could just carry whatever useful weapons that it's allowed to.

Then the same argument would hold true regardless of hard point restrictions. The 2ML, 3SRM6 CN9-A is still one of the best builds there is, and neither hard point changes, nor buffing small weapons would effect that.

[FupDup]

Belorion, on 26 July 2013 - 08:59 AM, said:

Then the same argument would hold true regardless of hard point restrictions. The 2ML, 3SRM6 CN9-A is still one of the best builds there is, and neither hard point changes, nor buffing small weapons would effect that.

If mechs are gunbags, it's still a hunt to find the best hitboxes. Making every weapon viable doesn't change the fact that the Awesome is just plain worse than the Stalker or Highlander.


PS: It's not just small weapons that need buffs (although they need it the most of course). Stuff like the AC/10 and LB 10-X...

Edited by FupDup, 26 July 2013 - 09:01 AM.

[Belorion]

Lostdragon, on 26 July 2013 - 08:58 AM, said:

Yeah, banning people for criticizing you is great PR... Maybe instead PGI should acknowledge that there is a large group of forumites who think PGI is making terrible decisions. In doing this they don't have to admit wrong doing or anything, they just need to open a dialogue with their passionate fans and address their concerns by explaining the reasoning behind the heat scale and how it integrates into the bigger picture (because surely it does, right?).

Criticizing =/= Insultingly refer to other characters, players, Piranha Games Inc. employees, or groups of people.

FupDup, on 26 July 2013 - 09:00 AM, said:

If mechs are gunbags, it's still a hunt to find the best hitboxes. Making every weapon viable doesn't change the fact that the Awesome is just plain worse than the Stalker or Highlander.

PS: It's not just small weapons that need buffs (although they need it the most of course). Stuff like the AC/10 and LB 10-X...

The more flexible the mech lab, the less likely a chassis is inherently worse than another.

[Enigmos]

My question is when will they debuff non-flight aiming? Aiming is completely OP!

[FupDup]

Belorion, on 26 July 2013 - 09:02 AM, said:

The more flexible the mech lab, the less likely a chassis is inherently worse than another.

Doesn't seem to help the Awesome or the Hunchback 4SP (when compared to the famous Zombie Centurion).


Let's go hyperbole and pretend that we went full MW3 style and let people mount anything, anywhere so long as you had the slots and tonnage to handle it. Would such a change help the Awesome or Hunchie 4SP? Why would I ever drive an Awesome with the MW3 mechlab if a Stalker can do the same stuff but is harder to hit and can tank more damage due to hitboxes?

Edited by FupDup, 26 July 2013 - 09:07 AM.

[Belorion]

FupDup, on 26 July 2013 - 09:04 AM, said:

Doesn't seem to help the Awesome or the Hunchback 4SP (when compared to the famous Zombie Centurion).

Let's go hyperbole and pretend that we went full MW3 style and let people mount anything, anywhere so long as you had the slots and tonnage to handle it. Would such a change help the Awesome or Hunchie 4SP?

The engine nerf had more to do with the Hunchbacks decline than anything else. The engine nerf was a restriction placed on the mechlab.

[MustrumRidcully]

Not much on specifics. I wonder what the changes about the energy weapons bring - are you testing some kind of benchmarking system so you iterate more rapidly and see how well your model holds up, Paul?

[FupDup]

Belorion, on 26 July 2013 - 09:06 AM, said:

The engine nerf had more to do with the Hunchbacks decline than anything else. The engine nerf was a restriction placed on the mechlab.

Letting the Hunchie go faster doesn't change the fact that it isn't as durable as a Centurion. It's because it has a normal sized center torso and tiny arms, whereas the Cent has a tiny CT and larger arms (for blocking).


And then we have the not-so Awesome.

Edited by FupDup, 26 July 2013 - 09:09 AM.

[Enigmos]

FupDup, on 26 July 2013 - 09:00 AM, said:

...PS: It's not just small weapons that need buffs (although they need it the most of course). Stuff like the AC/10 and LB 10-X...

AC/10 could use a buff. I wouldn't mind a buff for the LB 10 but honestly if you can fit two of them with an AC2 and keep the button mashed the RoF makes the combination pretty devastating under 200m and over ten seconds. It doesn't work like an alpha, you stay exposed and have to have some endurance. Try it with your Jaeger you might be surprised. Just remember it is high risk/high reward.

[Viper69]

FupDup, on 26 July 2013 - 09:08 AM, said:

Letting the Hunchie go faster doesn't change the fact that it isn't as durable as a Centurion. It's because it has a normal sized center torso and tiny arms, whereas the Cent has a tiny CT and larger arms (for blocking).


And then we have the not-so Awesome.

I know if I were a real life mechwarrior I would weep if my commander put me in an Awesome or a Hunchback.

[Belorion]

FupDup, on 26 July 2013 - 09:08 AM, said:

Letting the Hunchie go faster doesn't change the fact that it isn't as durable as a Centurion. It's because it has a normal sized center torso and tiny arms, whereas the Cent has a tiny CT and larger arms (for blocking).


And then we have the not-so Awesome.

I heard the term zombie hunchback way before people ever talked about the zombie cent.

The point is, that when they could go fast... the fastback was the thing everyone cried about, but you didn't see it anymore than any of the other "cheese builds" they nerfed the hunch engine speed, and one cheese build dissapeared, while the others (a lesser subset) remained.

ETA: Restricting builds isn't the way to attain balance.

Edited by Belorion, 26 July 2013 - 09:19 AM.