740 replies to this topic

[jozkhan]

The real problem here (or one Big one anyway) is that just from the ideas here alone theres a rough guess what? 10-12 very good points for the improving of the 'new player experience'. Many of which are considered 'standard' in other games. Most of which are relatively trivial to implement. Almost ALL of which have been called for by the community itself for almost an entire year-long development cycle. So PGi / IGP are most definitely 'aware'.

So... with all that AND the overly complex heat scaling and other new features new players have to grapple with (especially the poor silent majority - who dont have this lovely forum to get their info from) - with all that PGI / IGP refuse to make their own game more accessible. And by doing so refuse to make a better profit. It doesnt make any kind of business sense to make your new player experience as impenetrable and horrific as possible. If PGI wasnt IGP backwards and had a more orthodox developer / publisher relationship and maybe shareholders then this kind of business suicide would be considered negligent.

I mean I am sure the license holders themselves dont want new players run outta town like this. What possible 'reason' is there to deny improving the new player experience for so long, upto and including your one-and-only launch of the game? Do PGI / IGP actually want this game to die? (through inability to acquire and retain new players?) because seriously that's what it looks like.

To add: New Player Experience aside there are a whole raft of other features called for, for a long time such as Dx11, Lobby, CW, ingame comms, etc that all would also make the game more successful and PGI / IGP just dont implement them. What is up with that?

Edited by jozkhan, 06 August 2013 - 04:40 AM.

[Stormwolf]

fil5000, on 06 August 2013 - 03:55 AM, said:

In terms of free stuff, perhaps what people are thinking of is something like Warframe, where you are presented with a choice of three starter frames. They're not amazing, they're not fully upgraded, but importantly, they're not utter garbage as the current crop of trial mechs is. Giving the player one OK mech to start the game with isn't a bad idea, and you could restrict it to be only mediums (or whatever, I'm spitballing here) rather than everyone picking the atlas.

Assuming that the game would be balanced for a moment here I'd go for TRO3050 designs. All those "garbage" mechs are more at home in a custom match set in 3025 or 3039.

Here's some of the mechs I'd pick for starters:

Centurion CN9-D: It's pretty fast and has a good mix of weapons.
Blackjack BJ-3: Energy boat, nothing special, it atleast has DHS (assuming heat works properly)
Trebuchet TBT-7M: Missile platform with XL, Endo, CASE and jumpjets
Shadow Hawk SHD-5M: Mix of weapons kinda like the CN9-D, but trades in speed for jumpjets.

To better expand the selection:
Vindicator VND-3L: Simple setup, it mostly revolves around the ER PPC, it atleast has JJ's for extra mobility.
Enforcer ENF-5D: Another simple loadout for long to medium range combat, once againt it has both CASE and JJ's.

[MustrumRidcully]

Adridos, on 06 August 2013 - 02:50 AM, said:

If anything, this is too much of a Mechwarrior game.

Every Mechwarrior game before had these very flaws we're dealing with now, it's just that they're less acceptable in this day and age.

Bad introduction for newbies back then? Suck it up, go through the manual or tutorial again or find some good walkthrough in a gaming magazine.

Mechwarrior 3 already had an in-game training mission, and of course it had a full PvE campaign, so a noob had a lot of time to learn the game.

But Mechwarrior titles never belonged to the simplest types of games. Not that many games feature something like torso twist, and torso twist plus arm movement is even rarer (Even MW4 didn't have the latter). And fielding a large suite of weapons that can be used concurrently is also not that common. You might carry about a gazillion weapons on your character, but firing them all at once - not likely. In that regard, MW titles might be more complex than even flight simulators and space combat sims. (But of course those games have different aspects that are complex.)
Hit locations are also a rare gameplay component - I think headshots are still usually a "special hit zone", but everything else is typically abstracted away. Some space combat sims featured hit zones for large (typically non-player) craft (X-Wing with the 2 Star Destroyer shield generators and its follow-ups even featuring the individual weapons) and sometimes multiple shield emitters.

Quote

Balance? That's some fancy word for ya' to use, but it won't help you. Take the good stuff or go home. Nowdays, you're "balanced" or you're bombarded for it just about anywhere, even in games whose sole purpose is not to be balanced.

Yup, balance is not a big deal, since the game has a PvE mode and mutliplayer is basically a bonus feature.

Quote

Assault dominance? Where's the problem again? They're bigger, they're better... end of the story.

This isn't just a Mechwarrior thing, it's all Battletech. Assaults are bigge and better. Of course, changing this paradigm was one of the goals described in the dev blogs.

Is it not doable? Didn't they try hard enough? I dunno.

[Erata]

tl;dr: I feel like we're starting to discuss in circles and are only refining our grievances with the game's state of play, while a lot of people probably are waiting for mid-October to roll around as the judgement day for refunds or reversals of their protest-refunds, and will be the moment when activist fatigue really sets in due to PGI's persistent stonewalling.
To be clear, I don't want this or MWO to fail.

----------------------------------------------------

The biggest challenge for new players is mech building. There are zero in game hints and tips, and even disinformation until it ""gets fixed in UI 2.0"" re: Ghost Heat Penalties. It turns into a money sink, putting a high price to pay on new player ignorance.

I really like the idea, that was forwarded by others, of a public test server and VR training where you're given every single bell and whistle and are allowed to run around and shoot target dummies that operate in a variety of behaviors.. Like jumpjetting from behind cover, running in circles while torso twisting, etc...

Another idea that's come up that seems absolutely vital re: Most players don't drop in on the forums to read, a Global chat and the functionality to mute people, so people can ask questions and get replies. Of course, it would require a mute feature and stuff. We don't even have flood protection, but we're able to copy/paste strings of text to make it easier to flood chat..? ok.

It's hard to push forward with discussion because I feel like we've begun largely preaching to the choir, and a lot of participants, sorry to SPECULATE WILDLY HERE, are simply waiting for a smoke signal to go up from PGI that isn't just #StayTheCourse, instead of getting more involved.
Also assuming that a lot of the clan/merc leaders don't want to socially pester the rest of their groups to actually get active on the forums. I feel a lot of us are becoming fatigued and looking back on the good ol days and seem pretty ready to stop looking forward.

Edited by Erata, 06 August 2013 - 05:33 AM.

[CyclonerM]

Stormwolf, on 06 August 2013 - 02:00 AM, said:

You are not alone here, modes like conquest seem horribly out of place in a Mechwarrior game.

I may be totally wrong, but i understand very well the need of new gamemodes and actually like Conquest. It seems quite fitting Battletech, because in the Succession Wars every faction tried to destroy the enemy's indutries (or capture them?) to destroy the enemy's ability to fight.

Mainly, my concern is that there is almost nothing in this game about Battletech and its universe, even the timeline has been forgotten.. I understand a F2P cannot give you the same immersion of a single player game.. But they could do something about it.

And more: private lobbies should be a priority, the Community-based events are a very important resource for a F2P to create self-generating content and live long. Right now to make Trials, trainings or drops against other units we have to make sync drops in random maps..

A few guys who made MechWarrior Living Legends made a better work in many aspects than PGI. Some details are awesome and make me feel that is a MW game. There are lore and battles description during the match loading and factions banners on some buildings. Details are the most important.

I am glad to see there is maybe someone who cares about preventing MWO from becoming a robot CoD..

[CyclonerM]

Thunderklaws, on 06 August 2013 - 09:00 AM, said:

Even a post by one of the actual devs in this thread saying they know of its' existence would go a long way towards that.

The forum admins are probably watching this, i am not sure if the Devs can permit themselves to "waste" time reading the forums with all the stuff they should have already released

[Helmer]

Thunderklaws, on 06 August 2013 - 09:00 AM, said:

Well yeah, like I keep saying, we can spitball till we're blue in the face, talk circles around each other, and snipe each other's ideas to death but if IGP/PGI doesnt LISTEN, we're wasting our time here, and theyre showing no signs of listening.
Even a post by one of the actual devs in this thread saying they know of its' existence would go a long way towards that.

It's not perhaps the smoking gun of Russ, Bryan, or Paul coming into the thread, but at least it's a confirmation that the Community manager, at least, knows how #SaveMWO , this thread, the meetings, etc.
The individuals organizing the Townhall meetings are doing a good job ,with the resources available to them, communicating to the Developers they are trying to reach.

http://mwomercs.com/...64#entry2609264

"I've responded many times now thanking them for taking the time (and putting in the effort) to get their opinions across in ways that aren't "I died to PPCs so thats bollocks innit?!" or "this game is the worst game ever and i hate it and when I played 40 games last night i only one like half of them and gowse killed me a bunch of times it sucks!!11111one"

I really do appreciate their efforts, and have informed them as such. Comments like yours aren't adding to the conversation, so either state something, or let people who are giving their (respectful as always, right gents?) opinions do so."



Slowly getting back up to speed on this thread, so my apologies if this has been answered, however, are the Townhall meeting #2 audio logs up anywhere?


Cheers.

Edited by Helmer, 06 August 2013 - 10:34 AM.

[Gwaihir]

I don't remember exactly but I think #2 is not until tonight or Thursday, maybe. I know stalkerr was in the middle of moving and I'm not organizing though, so it is a mystery to me!

[Stormwolf]

CyclonerM, on 06 August 2013 - 06:10 AM, said:

I may be totally wrong, but i understand very well the need of new gamemodes and actually like Conquest. It seems quite fitting Battletech, because in the Succession Wars every faction tried to destroy the enemy's indutries (or capture them?) to destroy the enemy's ability to fight.

I'd rather see stuff like:

Solaris Arena: Deathmatch, Team Deathmatch
Missions: team vs team missions, single scenarios, mini campaigns, etc

The current game modes are a bit too "capture the flag" for me. It's not like Clan Smoke Jaguar was beaten at Wolcott because Hohiro Kurita quickly capped their base.

My point being, we need a return of primary, secondary and tertiary objectives, even a dustoff site would be nice. The game should be a trip through the Inner Sphere, this could easily be done if community created maps were available for play. Even Star Trek Online has a Foundry that the current devs proudly advertise.

Quote

Mainly, my concern is that there is almost nothing in this game about Battletech and its universe, even the timeline has been forgotten.. I understand a F2P cannot give you the same immersion of a single player game.. But they could do something about it.

I played the Neverwinter Beta for a bit, it's not really my cup of tea but I can see the appeal. It was pretty well fleshed out and there are all sorts of locations where there's a ton of stuff to do. A friend of mine is a D&D fan, he told me that there's a ton of lore and backstories in the game (from 4th edition IIRC).

Immersion can be given, even in a F2P game.

[jozkhan]

I must admit that's a good point about the Global Chat thing they have going in World of Tanks works very well. When I was playing I could simply just type in a noob question and get an answer just like that, whether it was about a certain tank to buy, advice or general game stuff. That would work very well in the UI social area.

Edited by jozkhan, 06 August 2013 - 11:28 AM.

[Kraven Kor]

Helmer, on 06 August 2013 - 10:33 AM, said:

Cheers.

Thank you for at least responding, it is appreciated.

Could I recommend that PGI consider an official response to all this, even if it is just "Message Received, we are reviewing what you have presented" on some official method of communication? A Facebook or Twitter post?

Sometimes you have to throw the proletariat some scraps to keep them from rioting, yes?

And, again, I highly recommend that you guys figure out a way to ensure ALL official communications are relayed on all outlets equally - any developer communication, patch notes, upcoming events, any real communication should go to Twitter, Facebook, Google+, and your own Website / Forums at the same time if at all possible. Just a thought.

[Destructicus]

My question was picked for ATD 44

Now we just sit and wait
At least we have their attention now.

Edited by Destructicus, 06 August 2013 - 03:26 PM.

[GaussDragon]

Destructicus, on 06 August 2013 - 03:21 PM, said:

My question was picked for ATD 44

Now we just sit and wait
At least we have their attention now.

Sweet, well done good sir.

[Nekki Basara]

Kraven Kor, on 06 August 2013 - 02:21 PM, said:

Thank you for at least responding, it is appreciated.

Could I recommend that PGI consider an official response to all this, even if it is just "Message Received, we are reviewing what you have presented" on some official method of communication? A Facebook or Twitter post?

He was quoting Garth's official response.

[Helmer]

Chronojam, on 04 August 2013 - 09:57 PM, said:

Unfortunately no. In other news, Russ Bullock said he's going to give a statement about the third person nonsense. He was asked to reply to this set of quotes and said he would on Tuesday.

Hey Chronojam,

Russ posted a followup to the Twitter question here

Kraven Kor, on 06 August 2013 - 02:21 PM, said:

And, again, I highly recommend that you guys figure out a way to ensure ALL official communications are relayed on all outlets equally - any developer communication, patch notes, upcoming events, any real communication should go to Twitter, Facebook, Google+, and your own Website / Forums at the same time if at all possible. Just a thought.

I agree and have suggested ,a few times, that a Command Chair Catch-all Subfoum be created for all the announcements from other venues can be reposted. I understand that some of the information and messaging might be from several different sources, however, it should not be too difficult to designate a single point of contact and keep that area up to date.
It's understandable that information is given out in other ways, however, it should also be presented on the official forums. This is a point of discontent for some of the community, and would be a relatively easy fix.


Cheers,

Edited by Helmer, 06 August 2013 - 04:31 PM.

[Chronojam]

Helmer, on 06 August 2013 - 04:26 PM, said:

Hey Chronojam,

Russ posted a followup to the Twitter question here

Solid, thanks for the tip. He really gave a long answer, much better than any Twitter-level response, so I appreciate that effort.

[jrgong]

Chronojam, on 06 August 2013 - 04:54 PM, said:

Solid, thanks for the tip. He really gave a long answer, much better than any Twitter-level response, so I appreciate that effort.

Yea, unfortunately quantity =/= quality; he could have saved himself alot of time just by posting this

Russ Bullocks said:

the added bonus of being able to look at your own cool paint job

Edited by jrgong, 06 August 2013 - 05:02 PM.

[Dustmuffins]

I think Russ' post on 3pv was great. I still never intend to play it though (unless I'm very drunk).

The devs need more of that kind of interaction to the community, especially with the people that put in a lot of time and effort to expressing their opinions in a structured and level headed manner (us among them).

I think that the renaming the queues to "Normal" and "Beginner" would go a long way into helpiing funnel players into the 1pv queue and enjoying MWO the way it was meant to be played.

[Wesxander]

If you want abandon tabletop values then make sure you post that openly and watch as the game dies. Some of us play the game for it's table top value long before you were on the scene. Not that any you skill player value that.

[Tetatae Squawkins]

Wesxander, on 06 August 2013 - 08:52 PM, said:

and watch as the game dies.

I'm watching.