257 replies to this topic

[BRRM]

Ok i vote yes to a hop to the side. BUT i believe that its based on your pilot tier exp in the mech you do it in. for someone that doesnt have all basic tier in a mech gets a 50% chance of falling over. with basic tier it gets bumped to 40%, 30% for elite tier and 20% for master. this is only and example but like in battletech fluff it can be done but its based on the pilots experience in the mech. even an experienced pilot can stuff it up. thats why there is still a chance of falling to occur.

[Pahrias]

in mw 2 mercs many years ago you could use the jump jets to sort of hop sideways. id vote that in. same principle, just a different method. and it wouldn't take much reworking of the controls or anything. would mean you could only do it in jump capable mechs tho... but im geussin if ur a sniper type then ud want jets anyway to get to the high ground. :-)

[Inkarnus]

this is no twitch shooter where u can hop in cover and easly hop back
no no no
it destroys the mech feeling too

[Clit Beastwood]

Inkarnus, on 08 October 2013 - 01:19 AM, said:

this is no twitch shooter where u can hop in cover and easly hop back
no no no
it destroys the mech feeling too

There is no hopping involved. It's taking a single step to the side. Please reference the 9 pages of text before this one for clarification.

[AvatarofWhat]

Sure its in lore but so is targeting every single weapon on your mech individually. It would be nice to do but I don't think its a good enough reason to further complicate the controls when 99% of the time people would achieve the same effect more efficiently by turning their legs and torso twisting to face the target.

If this were a proper mech simulator...

Edited by AvatarofWhat, 08 October 2013 - 07:46 AM.

[Shockwave144]

AvatarofWhat, on 08 October 2013 - 07:43 AM, said:

I don't think its a good enough reason to further complicate the controls when 99% of the time people would achieve the same effect more efficiently by turning their legs and torso twisting to face the target.

And if you're already facing your target?

[Clit Beastwood]

Shockwave144, on 08 October 2013 - 09:07 AM, said:

And if you're already facing your target?

Don't bother, replying is just creating an infinite loop. The exact same question/answer series happens every 3 pages let's just let the thread die. Nobody will read the first 9 pages, so each new post is simply an echo of a prior one. It's going to keep going and going forever.

[CeeKay Boques]

Fierostetz, on 08 October 2013 - 09:17 AM, said:

Don't bother, replying is just creating an infinite loop. The exact same question/answer series happens every 3 pages let's just let the thread die. Nobody will read the first 9 pages, so each new post is simply an echo of a prior one. It's going to keep going and going forever.

Stop trying to sidestep the issue.

I would like it if a CTRL button allowed us to move any Limb in the manner we chose. Press the appropriate limb button, you now have direct control. Hip Actuators should allow a side step, at 0 KPH. At 10+ KPH, maybe you fall over. We need all those mechanics together for this. You don't need a ball joint, try lifting one leg, and pushing off sideways with the other, or even letting gravity do the work. The amount of muscles and twists to move that way is very low. Lift the other foot, gyro compensates, you're upright. Leg goes down. I love you robot crazies. Thanks for putting up schematics and stuff.

[Clit Beastwood]

Technoviking, on 08 October 2013 - 09:39 AM, said:

Stop trying to sidestep the issue.

I would like it if a CTRL button allowed us to move any Limb in the manner we chose. Press the appropriate limb button, you now have direct control. Hip Actuators should allow a side step, at 0 KPH. At 10+ KPH, maybe you fall over. We need all those mechanics together for this. You don't need a ball joint, try lifting one leg, and pushing off sideways with the other, or even letting gravity do the work. The amount of muscles and twists to move that way is very low. Lift the other foot, gyro compensates, you're upright. Leg goes down. I love you robot crazies. Thanks for putting up schematics and stuff.

I'm the person who created the thread, so I'm not trying to sidestep anything. Also...sidestep the issue? :facepalm: so bad lol

[Xtrekker]

Admittedly without reading the whole thread, I'm just popping my 'other' comment in and scanning some of the comments. My thoughts...

Mechs obviously have to have some lateral movement to navigate rough terrain at speed, and some would be better at it than others. The faster a mech can go, the more it needs to be able to make lateral adjustments to keep from tripping or falling. The motion would be an internal function of balance, just like flexing "toes" or standing with offset legs.

That said, I think your typical side-step strafe would be an over-used movement that would make MW just seem weird. What I can see would be allowing a slight strafing hop left or right while moving forward or backward. That seems to me like it would make the most sense.

I can also see certain agile mechs having a greater advantage in this, and I would also support the idea that this could be augmented with experience. I think good players could find some creative ways to use this movement without breaking the basic lumbering feel we all know.

[Karl Streiger]

Inkarnus, on 08 October 2013 - 01:19 AM, said:

this is no twitch shooter where u can hop in cover and easly hop back
no no no
it destroys the mech feeling too

Fierostetz, on 08 October 2013 - 07:34 AM, said:

There is no hopping involved. It's taking a single step to the side. Please reference the 9 pages of text before this one for clarification.

Exactly to hop over an obstacle - that you are not able to climb (althouh its have is hardly the height of your knee) - was my idea

When I read Mech Feeling - I'm about to laugh:
Mechs are high mobile weapon platforms - with a really good protection for their motive system.

They have joints, muscles that work on the very principle of human muscles...I believe most of you guys think that a BattleMech is a kind of AT-ST or AT-AT- and I'm pretty sure that there low mobility wasn't a question of lore but of available technology to make the shot for the film.

Its is writen that even the movement style and balance of its pilot is depended for the mechs movement. If your mech can dance like a 60t fairy or tumble like a 25t drunken - depends on the pilot.

So - with an RPG related skill tree - i really hop to see - mechs doing sidesteps (we are talking about steps - not side strafing)
hoping, climbing and by god - griping the barrel of enemy Mechs with one hand and place a huge fist driven by 100t of steel and movement of 72 kph into the face of those - "tanks are mixture of infantry and tank on 2 legs" guys.

Edited by Karl Streiger, 25 October 2013 - 01:03 AM.

[FinsT]

Voted "other". I'd vote "no", if there would be such an option - but there is only the option "no, i hate your idea". Since i don't hate it, i can't take it.

As for why i don't agree with the idea, - it has nothing to do with what's in the lore (i know very little of the lore that is), and it has little to do with how many tons a mech is. What's most important for me here, - is the fact that strafe is already present in the game, in the form of movement while having significantly twisted torso. It takes skill and (sometimes - NOT always) time to "strafe" properly in MWO, - and i like it this way. This is, of course, a personal opinion only.

One additional reason is the need to keep controls simple - and unlike the above, this reason is not subjective, but very objective (not a personal opinion - but a fact). Usual FPS games have 4 essential movement buttons: go forward, go back, strafe left, strafe right. Having only 4 (and not more) essential movement buttons - is good in general for vast majority of games. Huge number of players are used to control movement with 4 buttons (left hand) plus pointing device (mouse, right hand). Now, in MWO, there are ALSO 4 essential movement buttons - go forward, go back, turn left, turn right. The latter two buttons are absolutely essential, because in MWO, mouse movement does NOT control the "character's" heading - but merely controls "character's" _torso_ heading. Which is, of course, essential for MWO since it's a mechwarrior game. That's how the need for two "usually not essential in FPS games" buttons - turning, - arises. Should strafing (sidestepping, whatever) be introduced, - two more buttons would be needed. This is, of course, possible, - but it's objectively complicating solution. I've played some games which have unusually rich movement controls, for example, http://en.wikipedia....28video_game%29 . This old arcade-style sim had the following: FPS-like mouse controlling craft's facing, and the following _essential_ movement buttons (essential for any competitive PvP play that is): go forward, go back, strafe left, strafe right, go up, go down, bank left, bank right. The latter 2 were essential because, naturally, all possible crafts in the game had different turning rates around horizontal axis than about vertical axis. I've been playing it for a few years, with breaks, it's a great game, awesome to play with friends, but 8 movement buttons is often too many. Quite regularly i wished to press four of them in the same time in a dogfight - to have forward thrust applied, to have strafes applied (both horizontal and vertical), - and do the banking in the same time as well. Now you try to press down four buttons on a keyboard, and you'll notice it often doesn't work - keyboard doesn't register even combination of some 3 buttons held down together; 4 rarely work, if ever at all. Plus, quite often, it's "breaking-fingers" thing to try to do... %) Bottom line is: 4 buttons being essential movement controls - is a thing pretty much all games should stick to as much as at all possible; and adding sidestep (strafe) to MWO - would get above this amount (to 6).

The problem you mention, - not enough agility for medium class, - can be addressed by other means. Namely, by medium class redesigns and improvements. Too little armor? Make their critically important parts smaller, increase acceleration and deceleration for medium-class mech a bit more, increase their torso twice rate (degrees/sec), make their lower armor to matter more such as through tonnage-based match-making, etc - the means to solve the problem of "too little armor / i am killed by huge alphas way too often!" - are several. If there is such a problem at all, that is - i am not qualified to say if there is, but i have my doubts about it. Adding ability to make sidestep is only one of possible methods to help with survivalability, - and as argued above, possibly not a best one.

Aside from all of the above: thank you for trying to improve the game, and best of luck with your next idea (if there will be a next one)!

Edited by FinsT, 25 October 2013 - 03:17 AM.

[Lord of All]

Hah you guys wanna Hop in a mech when they get stuck on a rock?

[XtremWarrior]

Yes: Anything that add some minor flexibility to your driving is a great thing.
As it has been said, it can already be done by rotating torso by 90° and going back and forth, so it doesn't matter for snipers covers.
Make it a one-step button, usable only at 0kph. Smaller and faster mech having a better side-step speed than bigger. Limit it so fast lights mech can still get hit.
A trully rich idea!

Edited by XtremWarrior, 27 October 2013 - 07:55 AM.

[KingCobra]

I put other. Side strafing was possible in past MechWarrior games not because there was a mechanism for it but because the mechs actually had MANUVERABILATY. You could make mechs move and strafe on the run and maneuver like mechs should not this stupid plodding along like hay wagons waiting to be torched. I have no idea where PGI/DEVS got this brilliant idea to make the mechs so slow must be from those TT geniuses they hired as consultants.

[Dymlos2003]

KingCobra, on 27 October 2013 - 07:57 AM, said:

I put other. Side strafing was possible in past MechWarrior games not because there was a mechanism for it but because the mechs actually had MANUVERABILATY. You could make mechs move and strafe on the run and maneuver like mechs should not this stupid plodding along like hay wagons waiting to be torched. I have no idea where PGI/DEVS got this brilliant idea to make the mechs so slow must be from those TT geniuses they hired as consultants.

What Mech warrior games have you been playing? It's always been slow like this

[Mathmatics]

Hellcat420, on 26 July 2013 - 02:45 PM, said:

read the whole statement not just cherry pick what you want. you also need to remember that just becasue its in a novel doesnt mean that is actually how they worked. they take some artistic license in order to make the books seem cool so they can sell a bunch of them to make money. it wouldnt make for a very good book if the mechs were falling over a lot trying to do this kind of stuff, would it.

Actually I think it would make for kind of an awesome book if mechs were all falling over when trying to pull fancy manuvers. Thats how I used to think of battletech mechs when I was younger but I realize thats not excatly the way it is.

[Galil Nain]

AvatarofWhat, on 08 October 2013 - 07:43 AM, said:

Sure its in lore but so is targeting every single weapon on your mech individually.

Actually, I've already posted an idea for dealing with this shortcoming of the current HUD/Controls. I've posted it here if you want to take a look and offer your thoughts...

As for the side-step/strafe idea, I think that it would be an interesting idea. Plus, if the devs do decide to implement other unit types in the future (Tanks, Aero, etc.) then the issue of strafing would NEED to be coded in for craft like helicopters, elementals and infantry.

[Edited] to actually put the link in!!!

Edited by Galil Nain, 27 October 2013 - 02:30 PM.

[KingCobra]

dymlos2003, on 27 October 2013 - 10:42 AM, said:

What Mech warrior games have you been playing? It's always been slow like this

I guess I will have to attribute your answer to my reply as memory loss or brain damage which ever comes first for you.MW2 was even slower on speed of mechs and maneuverability as in right -left movement speed and acceleration speeds.Mechwarrior3 was about 5x right-left movement speed of MWO and 5x the forward-reverse-right-left movement. MechWarrior 4 was about 3x the maneuverability of MWO. You know as well as I do the mechs in MWO maneuver like Ccrap as far as R-L acceleration and movement speed as well as forward and reverse acceleration speeds. That's why everyone just plods along and ends up cannon fodder after battle engagement begins except for a few lights. P.S look in my profile to see how long I have played the MechWarrior series PC games.

Edited by KingCobra, 27 October 2013 - 02:50 PM.

[efryt]

Strafe: yes - but only humanoids