257 replies to this topic

[Clit Beastwood]

[edit: when I say side-step or strafe, I'm talking about 1-2 steps, not running around sideways. I don't know if I can edit the thread title, so, sorry. I believe that, though I clarified this point in a subsequent post, since nobody reads anything before replying, this message is best placed at the beginning of the first post. Again, sidestepping, as in someone throws a baseball at you and you can step out of the way. Not talking about running around sideways, that's accomplished with torso twist. This is, while stationary, taking a single shuffling step to the side, ideally as a perk to help mediums survive a little better. They're too lightly armored to take some of the high alphas, but not fast enough to get out of the way. I don't have any issues maneuvering, I simply see it as a "perk" for an underplayed class that could perhaps bring more of them back onto the field.]






They've got legs, no reason the mechs shouldn't be able to dodge sideways. I know it's not part of the movement mechanic at this time, but I think it'd do a great job of further mitigating snipers. True, sniper to sniper combat would still be a pair of mechs 2-steppin' 1200m apart, but other than that, lighter mechs could better dodge high alphas. Fat mech = slow sidestep, faster mech = faster sidestep. Thoughts?

Also, it really wouldn't hurt to let humanoid mechs either crouch or go down on one knee...

Edited by Fierostetz, 29 July 2013 - 09:10 AM.

[Lightfoot]

In MechWarrior you get strafing by rotating the torso 90 degrees and walking forward or back. It does the same thing at a much faster speed, essentially.

[Clit Beastwood]

Lightfoot, on 26 July 2013 - 02:00 PM, said:

In MechWarrior you get strafing by rotating the torso 90 degrees and walking forward or back. It does the same thing at a much faster speed, essentially.

Yeah, that I'm aware of - I'm talking about a quick hop/step to the side, without the time it takes to rotate your legs. I know it sounds minor, but stepping sideways without having to turn your legs would be handy. They've got the actuators and the novels are rife with instances where it was handy. Not arguing with you - to clarify, I'm talking like 1-2 steps maybe, so you can duck out of cover, fire, duck back without the full forward/backward accel/decel curve.

[Hellcat420]

i vote no.

[Clit Beastwood]

Hellcat420, on 26 July 2013 - 02:03 PM, said:

i vote no.

out of curiosity, why? I'd honestly like to hear various viewpoints on it. It would be handy for scouts, that's for sure. Or even the ability to lean to peek around corners.

[Chief 117]

Lightfoot, on 26 July 2013 - 02:00 PM, said:

In MechWarrior you get strafing by rotating the torso 90 degrees and walking forward or back. It does the same thing at a much faster speed, essentially.

This

But mechs with 4 legs can strafe without twisting their torsos.

[Clit Beastwood]

Chief 117, on 26 July 2013 - 02:05 PM, said:

This

But mechs with 4 legs can strafe without twisting their torsos.

That's pretty basic maneuvering - there's lateral movement afforded by the actuators in the legs... in lore they're able to crouch, sidestep, etc. - I'm hoping it would add a new dynamic to combat, and remove some of the danger of massive alphas, i.e. sidestep the ppc's, then go to work while the target's ppc's are cycling. I don't know if the current skeleton of the mechs' 3d models is capable though, it might take reworking which would = a no go.

[PropagandaWar]

Fierostetz, on 26 July 2013 - 02:03 PM, said:

Yeah, that I'm aware of - I'm talking about a quick hop/step to the side, without the time it takes to rotate your legs. I know it sounds minor, but stepping sideways without having to turn your legs would be handy. They've got the actuators and the novels are rife with instances where it was handy. Not arguing with you - to clarify, I'm talking like 1-2 steps maybe, so you can duck out of cover, fire, duck back without the full forward/backward accel/decel curve.

I think you can do that in hawken and it looks silly. Your speaking cannon so Ill go TT you have to turn to move sideways. Crouching I agree with but strafing nah. in a mech it would be scooting not strafing.

[Clit Beastwood]

PropagandaWar, on 26 July 2013 - 02:08 PM, said:

I think you can do that in hawken and it looks silly. Your speaking cannon so Ill go TT you have to turn to move sideways. Crouching I agree with but strafing nah. in a mech it would be scooting not strafing.

ha when you wrote scooting, I pictured this

picture an atlas doing that

[Ensaine]

I vote no.

This is not Call of Duty. There is a game called Call of Duty, if you are interested in playing Call of Duty.

This is ......

Mechwarrior

/kicksopintowell

Really, these are walking tanks measured in tens of tons. Hinges and pins, not a hip joint.

Leave straffing to run and gun FPS games please.

[Thanatos676]

No, just no...
this isn't hawken..

[PropagandaWar]

Fierostetz, on 26 July 2013 - 02:09 PM, said:

ha when you wrote scooting, I pictured this

picture an atlas doing that

lol so did i

[Clit Beastwood]

I'm not trying to make it COD, hawken, or any other silly FPS game. The mechs have lateral actuators, myomer bundles, and a skeleton, not "hinges", hinges wouldn't stand up to the torsion mech limbs experience, and would afford very poor mobility. Part of the reason for the neurohelmet is to help a pilot balance - if the legs were fixed in a front-back orientation, then you wouldn't be able to walk sideways on a slope, you'd just fall over. Everyone gets an opinion, I just want to make sure my initial post is properly understood. I'm not talking about flying sideways or anything. Just a step - I don't think I personally would use it much (drive lights almost exclusively - I just run towards targets faster than their weapons can converge and that works fine. I don't have much trouble with snipers) but avoiding sniper fire at a distance is a hot issue. Rather than incessantly nerf/buff/modify weapons, add a counter. Alternatively, being able to JJ laterally - that's also an item from BT lore (lore = books, canon = tt) would be handy. I was referring to Lore, not specifically Canon/TT. Tried TT, wasn't for me. Loved painting the miniatures for my friends though.

holy lord, instant notification via email was a bad choice, my phone is going insane.

[Deathlike]

The only logical answer is that this is supposed to be for JJs in some form. Otherwise, no.

[New Day]

Ensaine, on 26 July 2013 - 02:14 PM, said:

I vote no.

This is not Call of Duty. There is a game called Call of Duty, if you are interested in playing Call of Duty.

This is ......

Mechwarrior

/kicksopintowell

Really, these are walking tanks measured in tens of tons. Hinges and pins, not a hip joint.

Leave straffing to run and gun FPS games please.

Did you skip over the part where he said it was already in Battletch lore.

[Hellcat420]

Fierostetz, on 26 July 2013 - 02:04 PM, said:

out of curiosity, why? I'd honestly like to hear various viewpoints on it. It would be handy for scouts, that's for sure. Or even the ability to lean to peek around corners.

for one it would up the survivablity of snipers. for another thing if they cant get collisions right, how would they make this work. and then there is the speed problem with the game engine that lead to the artifical speed cap, which would also affect other movements such as quick sidestep. not to mention that in lore mechs could not just sidestep and crouch and stuff at will. mechs fall over a lot of times when attempting stuff liek that. movements like these are difficult for pilots to pull off. in battletech the mechs are not perfect technology like some ******** japanese gundam cartoon. do not forget that only the absolute best of the best became mechwarriors(unless your parents were super rich), and even for these elite warriors mechs were difficult to pilot.

Edited by Hellcat420, 26 July 2013 - 02:35 PM.

[Volthorne]

Fierostetz, on 26 July 2013 - 02:29 PM, said:

Part of the reason for the neurohelmet is to help a pilot balance - if the legs were fixed in a front-back orientation, then you wouldn't be able to walk sideways on a slope, you'd just fall over.

'Mechs have knees, and knees can be bent, right? It's not like a pirate with his pegleg. Try walking across a hill, I'm sure you'll find that you bend the up-hill knee to accomodate for the increased base height.

Edited by Volthorne, 26 July 2013 - 02:33 PM.

[Clit Beastwood]

Volthorne, on 26 July 2013 - 02:32 PM, said:

'Mechs have knees, and knees can be bent, right? It's not like a pirate with his pegleg. Try walking across a hill, I'm sure you'll find that you bend the up-hill knee to accomodate for the increased base height.

Exactly. Also, your name was close enough to Voltron to make me doubletake. That gets a thumbs up

[Clit Beastwood]

Hellcat420, on 26 July 2013 - 02:32 PM, said:

not to mention that in lore mechs could not just sidestep and crouch and stuff at will.

Per lore, yes they can - I'm on book 24 of the 64 core novels, starting at the beginning, and it's mentioned in almost all of them that a mech will do one of the following

- crouch
- lay down
- take a knee to stabilize a weapon
- go down on hands and knees to fit through an opening
- a mech without jets will "hop"
- a mech will lean its back against a wall and slide sideways to peek around a corner
- a mech with arms will use its arms to climb something
not to mention the craziness that is solaris.
that being said, some of the lore is bat(poo) insane, but still, its in there.

Edited by Fierostetz, 26 July 2013 - 02:41 PM.

[Hellcat420]

Fierostetz, on 26 July 2013 - 02:40 PM, said:

Per lore, yes they can - I'm on book 24 of the 64 core novels, starting at the beginning, and it's mentioned in almost all of them that a mech will do one of the following

- crouch
- lay down
- take a knee to stabilize a weapon
- go down on hands and knees to fit through an opening
- a mech without jets will "hop"
- a mech will lean its back against a wall and slide sideways to peek around a corner
- a mech with arms will use its arms to climb something
not to mention the craziness that is solaris.
that being said, some of the lore is bat(poo) insane, but still, its in there.

read the whole statement not just cherry pick what you want. you also need to remember that just becasue its in a novel doesnt mean that is actually how they worked. they take some artistic license in order to make the books seem cool so they can sell a bunch of them to make money. it wouldnt make for a very good book if the mechs were falling over a lot trying to do this kind of stuff, would it.

Edited by Hellcat420, 26 July 2013 - 02:52 PM.