257 replies to this topic

[Strum Wealh]

Cathy, on 30 December 2013 - 05:27 AM, said:

I don't disagree with what your saying, but when the lore was originally made, it was nearly a complete rip off of gundam and just about every robot manga that came from Japan (not crusher joe) where they were big giant metal ninja, westernising the machines and making them operate more 'realistically' is the big step that makes battle tech more 'sensible'.

You've got it backwards; the BT Locust is actually the "Ostall" from Crusher Joe, while none of the Unseen(/Reseen) are based on any mecha from any of the Gundam series.



Also, what you're calling "western mecha" (that is, the "non/barely-humanoid (sometimes-)walking tank" type, as opposed to the "nimble humanoid" type) are not so exclusively "western" - as demonstrated by the Ostall from Crusher Joe (novels in 1979, animation in 1983), the Tomahawk Destroid (upon which the BT Warhammer is based) & the Phalanx Destroid (upon which the BT Longbow is based) from Macross (original airing: Oct. 03, 1982), and the tracked-and-exclusively-cannon-armed Guntank (from the original MS Gundam; original airing: April 07, 1979).

Also, the "Gears" from Heavy Gear (original publishing: 1994) are blatantly ripped-off from the "Armored Troopers" from Armored Trooper VOTOMS (original airing: April 01, 1983) - same size, same ingress/egress method, similar weapon types & placement, and even the same "skates in the heels" gimmick.





As they say, "there is nothing new under the sun".

Edited by Strum Wealh, 30 December 2013 - 09:03 PM.

[Krasnopesky]

There are a lot of other issues in this game to focus on before looking at small movements like side-stepping, regardless of whether it is in the Battletech lore or not.

[XtremWarrior]

Cathy, on 30 December 2013 - 05:27 AM, said:

I don't disagree with what your saying, but when the lore was originally made, it was nearly a complete rip off of gundam and just about every robot manga that came from Japan (not crusher joe) where they were big giant metal ninja, westernising the machines and making them operate more 'realistically' is the big step that makes battle tech more 'sensible'.

This was dragged out and kept in by the novel writers, to make the battles seem more dramatic, when it should have been put to bed and forgotten years ago.

My opinions of the novels 'quality' and I do own a couple, are seconded only by the creation of the clans, both did nothing for the actual game quality, and both in my opinion a complete waste of ink and tree's.

Give in another fifteen-twenty years and its not to far from the fantastic, that the writers of both might be indited for barkisied

after all people now Major in klingon *face palms*

You don't have to go to the very humanoid gundam to have Mechs being able to pick a tree as a club, crouch or side-step...

[Reitrix]

I'd rather not see the sidestepping you're after. Hawken has it. 1v1 duels come down to shoot'n'scoots may the lower Ping win.

[DaZur]

I advocated for a limited side-step waaaaaay back in CB.

In short, while the 90-degree torso "cha'cha" accomplishes roughly the same result... I pictured the side-step to be a quicker lateral movement to allow mechs to play "peek-a-boo-I shoot-you" without fully exposing from cover.

Suffice to say it was shot down unceremoniously.

Edited by DaZur, 31 December 2013 - 08:31 AM.

[Livewyr]

I feel we should be able to hop up and down, including the mechs without JJs, and be able to fire as if we're sitting still.

[Glenfiddich15Yr]

The problem with this idea is that it would require mechs to have ball joints. Maybe since this is a futuristic game, that would be possible, but based on how the mechs appear in the game today, it would defy physics. However, an option to put jump jets on the side of the legs, thus allowing you to strafe in the air, could be realistic and valuable to the game.

[Roland]

Step 1: Turn your torso to the side
Step 2: Move

You are now straffing!

[Whatzituyah]

About the crouching look at 1:14


The Black Knight clearly does it in the intro and other mechs do it too "I know I played MechWarrior 4" but while crouching you have no mobility I don't even know whats the point of crouching perhaps to prevent recoil from certain weapons?

[Lord de Seis]

Edited by Lord de Seis, 02 January 2014 - 09:55 PM.

[Mycrus]

Votes are a resounding "no"... Expect this feature soon™

[ManDaisy]

I still think this has merits. Granted movement would be limited to not be continuos and to have a bit of delay before being used again and only be allowable at less then 50% throttle. Would be useful, when at standstill to dodge a quick ac round, or shift some laser damage.

Point is there are many way to have it implemented in a good way. Too many people are imagining mech skating tho.

Edited by ManDaisy, 03 June 2014 - 09:42 AM.

[Vanguard319]

NamesAreStupid, on 26 July 2013 - 02:31 PM, said:

Did you skip over the part where he said it was already in Battletch lore.

If we had quad or tripod mechs I would have no problem with it since they canonically can sidestep. (quads can because they universally are incapable of torso twisting.) I think LAMs in airmech mode can also move laterally as well. However, we have none of the above, and standard mechs were never described as having the ability to do so.

[ManDaisy]

But then you have the blurry lines which is interpreting how much movement is actually a hex? To me side stepping is within one hex of movement.

Quote

They've got legs, no reason the mechs shouldn't be able to dodge sideways. I know it's not part of the movement mechanic at this time, but I think it'd do a great job of further mitigating snipers. True, sniper to sniper combat would still be a pair of mechs 2-steppin' 1200m apart, but other than that, lighter mechs could better dodge high alphas. Fat mech = slow sidestep, faster mech = faster sidestep. Thoughts?

Also, it really wouldn't hurt to let humanoid mechs either crouch or go down on one knee...

Great Point FieroStez!

Edited by ManDaisy, 04 June 2014 - 10:27 PM.

[tm10067]

This is mechwarrior, not counterstrike. Anyway most mechs haven't got limbs for side stepping

[Clit Beastwood]

tm10067, on 06 June 2014 - 12:06 AM, said:

This is mechwarrior, not counterstrike. Anyway most mechs haven't got limbs for side stepping

As has been covered over 12 pages of this thread, if a mech can walk on a slope, it can side strafe. There's no technological limitation, it's an imposed one. They're more than capable of taking a step to the side. If the legs were incapable of lateral movement they'd never be able to maintain balance or walk on uneven surfaces. Please read the preceding pages of a post prior to replying. Also stated in prior pages was my rescinding of my original request due to the buffs to medium movement. At the time I made the request, the mediums moved like heavies.

Edited by Fierostetz, 06 June 2014 - 08:04 AM.

[ImperialKnight]

Hawken says hi

Fierostetz, on 26 July 2013 - 01:54 PM, said:

[edit: when I say side-step or strafe, I'm talking about 1-2 steps, not running around sideways. I don't know if I can edit the thread title, so, sorry. I believe that, though I clarified this point in a subsequent post, since nobody reads anything before replying, this message is best placed at the beginning of the first post. Again, sidestepping, as in someone throws a baseball at you and you can step out of the way. Not talking about running around sideways, that's accomplished with torso twist. This is, while stationary, taking a single shuffling step to the side, ideally as a perk to help mediums survive a little better. They're too lightly armored to take some of the high alphas, but not fast enough to get out of the way. I don't have any issues maneuvering, I simply see it as a "perk" for an underplayed class that could perhaps bring more of them back onto the field.]






They've got legs, no reason the mechs shouldn't be able to dodge sideways. I know it's not part of the movement mechanic at this time, but I think it'd do a great job of further mitigating snipers. True, sniper to sniper combat would still be a pair of mechs 2-steppin' 1200m apart, but other than that, lighter mechs could better dodge high alphas. Fat mech = slow sidestep, faster mech = faster sidestep. Thoughts?

Also, it really wouldn't hurt to let humanoid mechs either crouch or go down on one knee...

[ManDaisy]

So you thinking adding the ability to side step is going to suddenly turn this game into that arcadey mess? I think your over reaching here.

[Alaskan Nobody]

It has probably already been said - but we already have the ability to strafe.

Some mechs are better at it than others - but it is there.

[Clit Beastwood]

Shar Wolf, on 07 June 2014 - 08:20 PM, said:

It has probably already been said - but we already have the ability to strafe.

Some mechs are better at it than others - but it is there.

As I've said a bunch of times in the preceding pages - I rescinded this post after they buffed medium movement a while back. And I wanted a single sidestep, not strafing. If I could alter a thread title I would.