341 replies to this topic

[Rushin Roulette]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 29 July 2013 - 06:51 AM, said:

Allow me to educate you. It has absolutely nothing to do with new mechs or new patches. PUG players have always wanted their own queue, and the fact that you see one of these posts every week is coincidental to a bi-weekly patch schedule.

Allow me to re-educate you... this thread is all about someone trolling the forums witha screenshot of the opposing team with 6 Jenners and crying about premades ruining the game experience. Lets get the facts straight. 1. You can only group up to 4 players in the PUG queue. 2. The ELO rating of the teams (or each player... not sure which one) is matched.

This means, that maybe the premade group of 4 were all running Jenners which in itself is not very effective unless you are going for the cap win.

This leaves 2 Jenners to be filled by the PUG players. Lets look at the time of posting.. a few days after the first batch of shiny new Sarah Jenners were released. Could it maybe be, that the Jenner players *ghasp* might of actually been testing out their brand new toys and dropping randomly and not in nasty, despicable, evil premades? Until there is a way of seeing which players are grouped up with others, then I call every single of this type of thready absolute BS whining crud.

Agent 0 Fortune, on 29 July 2013 - 06:51 AM, said:

If any of you anti-solo players gave two $#&s about this game you would want a separate queue to grow the franchise.bla bla bla whine cry.

Where did I write, that I either dont care about the game, drop in PUG games to stroke and E-bodypart or could give one rats arse about what you think of my views?

I simply wrote that players like to test new mechs as soon as they are released, and that this type of thread coincidentally always seems to crop up as soon as any new mech is added to the game... because it is absolutely logical, that if players have the same mech, then they must be in a premade team.

Let me educate you on a little about the 8 player queue. Unless 2 teams have agreed on a very low droplimit, then you will rarely ever see more than 2 light mechs per side. Good teams usually run a balanced build which can react and act to various situations.. so something like the screenshot would not happen.

[PropagandaWar]

Kunae, on 29 July 2013 - 07:55 AM, said:

Pft. It isn't about new players, it's about people who want a single-player game who are playing MWO, which is most certainly not.

These people want to be the "hero" in every match, rather than being part of a team. This game will never provide that experience, even if PGI caves and makes a solo only queue. They're still going to get stomped by people who can coordinate using chat, or are just reflexively good players, in tune with their team.

Here was my chat yester day. Yep ill give away an effective tactic but at this point who cares.

Location: Frozen City at Night/Left Side closest to Jenner Alley

Chat: My two friends and I will go down the line turn in at back behind Icewall. Meet at ridge watch for us then engage.

I called Echo to friend than chatted it once. After that nothing was said period. We won 8-0. That is all.

[Ransack]

I need to start posting threads like these when me and my "premade boogeymen" lose. I mean something must be broken and the game unfun if I lose when I have a premade team with me, right?

[Kunae]

There were only 5 Jenners on the opposing side, in the OP. OP's side had 4 lights. That was not a premade, otherwise the OP's side wouldn't have been weight-matched so closely.

At best, there was a group of 2 Jenners on the opponent's side.

PropagandaWar, on 29 July 2013 - 08:01 AM, said:

Here was my chat yester day. Yep ill give away an effective tactic but at this point who cares.

Location: Frozen City at Night/Left Side closest to Jenner Alley

Chat: My two friends and I will go down the line turn in at back behind Icewall. Meet at ridge watch for us then engage.

I called Echo to friend than chatted it once. After that nothing was said period. We won 8-0. That is all.

Now that's just crazy-talk, there.

[Tsenado]

Kunae, on 29 July 2013 - 07:55 AM, said:

Pft. It isn't about new players, it's about people who want a single-player game who are playing MWO, which is most certainly not.

These people want to be the "hero" in every match, rather than being part of a team. This game will never provide that experience, even if PGI caves and makes a solo only queue. They're still going to get stomped by people who can coordinate using chat, or are just reflexively good players, in tune with their team.

And yet, Elite players are complaining why MWO has such small playerbase and always seeing the same people in premade games. Why would these new players want to play with you premades when they are already turned off at the doorstep of the game? Yes send them away, there is certain no issue in MWO with soloing queuing with you elite players.

[Ransack]

PropagandaWar, on 29 July 2013 - 07:52 AM, said:

Its not just new players. I see founder players that gripe about this crap and are just clueless. We were all new at one point or another. Thing is I didn't cry when I got my butt kicked over and over again. Common sense probably helped me get used to the game quicker. This isn't a click point shoot game and it requires a little bit of thinking/situational awareness and the ability to help out a team whether or not your on comms.

*If your running a 1.05 heat eff and you overheat every shot your doing it wrong
*If your taking an assault mech and walking it over to cap a base your doing it wrong
*If your running nothing but LRM's in an assault mech and your solo your doing it wrong
*If your team is in a city fight and your sniping on a ridge but cant see crap and to top it off your Accuracy with said weapon is 40% or less your doing it wrong
*If your a assault pilot and your circle the same direction is that light mech is to hit it your doing it wrong
*If you sit back and watch your team get decimated thinking you may get to clean up because you suck not only are you a jerk but your doing it wrong.
*If you ignore getting shot in the back by "any" mech your doing it wrong and will blow up.
*If you are a KDR Padder your not a great player and doing it wrong.
*If you are bigger than a light and you leave a battle for a cap and your 2+ mechs down your doing it wrong. 9/10 times they will finish them off and come kill you.

The list can go on and on

I so agree with everything but this

Quote

If you are bigger than a light and you leave a battle for a cap and your 2+ mechs down your doing it wrong. 9/10 times they will finish them off and come kill you.

Sometimes You just gotta run back to protect the base because a lot of people refuse to. Also I've had all of my weapons shot off more than once. What else are you gonna do? Or if you are a "Streakcat" and they have more ECM than you have BAP. Sometimes you just gotta go...

Edited by Ransack, 29 July 2013 - 08:20 AM.

[Mystere]

PropagandaWar, on 29 July 2013 - 07:52 AM, said:

Its not just new players ...

Kunae, on 29 July 2013 - 07:55 AM, said:

Pft. It isn't about new players ...

Frankly, I couldn't care less about still-clueless "founders" or "hero" wannabes. But, we do have a problem where new players get to experience MWO-style fights for only 10 seconds once battle starts. Barring any extreme masochists, that jusn't fun for anyone.

A solo-only queue can help mitigate that "not so fun" experience. And insulting anyone that wants to be in such a queue (like the bunny reference I responded to) just isn't helping at all. Some of the 1337 (real or imagined ) here should really dial things down.

[PropagandaWar]

Ransack, on 29 July 2013 - 08:17 AM, said:

I so agree with everything but this



Sometimes You just gotta run back to protect the base because a lot of people refuse to. Also I've had all of my weapons shot off more than once. What else are you gonna do? Or if you are a "Streakcat" and they have more ECM than you have BAP. Sometimes you just gotta go...

Oops meant to put go cap base not protect. I'll meatshield if were down but if it looks like capping is our only chance and were only one down and im to far to assist in any way Ill cap. A lot of us use the common snse rule. I hate streakcats as they are to reliant on perfect conditions, but to each there own.

[Kunae]

Tsenado, on 29 July 2013 - 08:13 AM, said:

And yet, Elite players are complaining why MWO has such small playerbase and always seeing the same people in premade games. Why would these new players want to play with you premades when they are already turned off at the doorstep of the game? Yes send them away, there is certain no issue in MWO with soloing queuing with you elite players.

Post hoc, ergo propter hoc?

No. The reason why the playerbase is, and has been shrinking, is because of all of the stupid crap that PGI has done over the last 10 months or so. I'll list a few of them for you.

Removed the ability of groups of all sizes to play together.
Removed knockdowns.
Nerfed jumpjets.
Nerfed SRMs.
Buffed PPC's.
No Community Warfare.

Some of these they've sort of fixed, but it takes them 4-6 months to do so, and then their "fix" breaks 7 other things, and doesn't really address the original problem.

Some of you "shrinking violets" need to stop choosing to be offended by the breeze.

[PropagandaWar]

Mystere, on 29 July 2013 - 08:19 AM, said:

Frankly, I couldn't care less about still-clueless "founders" or "hero" wannabes. But, we do have a problem where new players get to experience MWO-style fights for only 10 seconds once battle starts. Barring any extreme masochists, that jusn't fun for anyone.

A solo-only queue can help mitigate that "not so fun" experience. And insulting anyone that wants to be in such a queue (like the bunny reference I responded to) just isn't helping at all. Some of the 1337 (real or imagined ) here should really dial things down.

How many MP FPS games have you played where you didnt get ROFLD time and time again at first? The key difference to this than other FPS games (Excluding WoT) is respawn. We don't get them. Dropship will be more like War Thunder in where you'll get more than one chance to fight in the battle. It may or may not help you. As much as I hate 3pv I understand why they are bringing it in. As long as PGI keeps their word and lets me play with non 3Pv players I could care less.

[Greyfyl]

The truly sad part is that this whole thing could have been solved in 1/2 day's worth of programming; assuming that as most of you doing premades keep asserting - that premades are already on both teams at this point in the matchmaking. With that assumption, all that needed to be done was to implement a World of Tanks type marker that shows up for premade teams.

People would quit assuming that they were roflstomped by premades, and those of us that pug would have proof that the game is balancing out premades. FYI - I don't buy for a second that the current MM system balances out premades on both teams....it's a complete myth.

[Kunae]

Mystere, on 29 July 2013 - 08:19 AM, said:

Frankly, I couldn't care less about still-clueless "founders" or "hero" wannabes. But, we do have a problem where new players get to experience MWO-style fights for only 10 seconds once battle starts. Barring any extreme masochists, that jusn't fun for anyone.

A solo-only queue can help mitigate that "not so fun" experience. And insulting anyone that wants to be in such a queue (like the bunny reference I responded to) just isn't helping at all. Some of the 1337 (real or imagined ) here should really dial things down.

It has NOTHING to do with groups or not.

Anyone can solo-drop with the right mech and "new players get to experience MWO-style fights for only 10 seconds once battle starts." You are talking about a game-balance issue, not a "premade vs pug" 'issue'.

Stop blaming people who group, for PGI's lack of being able to properly, and efficiently, balance this game.

Greyfyl, on 29 July 2013 - 08:28 AM, said:

The truly sad part is that this whole thing could have been solved in 1/2 day's worth of programming; assuming that as most of you doing premades keep asserting - that premades are already on both teams at this point in the matchmaking. With that assumption, all that needed to be done was to implement a World of Tanks type marker that shows up for premade teams.

People would quit assuming that they were roflstomped by premades, and those of us that pug would have proof that the game is balancing out premades. FYI - I don't buy for a second that the current MM system balances out premades on both teams....it's a complete myth.

I understand where you're trying to go with this, but they shouldn't do it.

There's should be as much 'fog of war' in this game as we can put in it. No one should know who is grouped on the "other side". Similar to how you can't see what mechs your opponents are driving, initially, this would be too much info.

The only place I would even consider supporting this idea, would be for the end-game screen. Definitely at no point prior.

Edit: Spelling.

Edited by Kunae, 29 July 2013 - 08:31 AM.

[PropagandaWar]

Something else I want to bring up about the premade boogyman. Happened twice this weekend as well. I was a jerk but it needed to be done, in fact I'm gonna make a separate thread about it. I won't shame the teams any further by naming them. Twice this weekend a premade announced its url when the game started. One game ended 8-0 the other 8-2. Both times we were the winning force. I teased them even asked what was the name of their group again then slammed them with ours. Especially having violated tehm with mediums and 1 heavy on my lance being the high scorers against their assualts in one game. It makes you look stupid. Wait till end of game if you want people to check you out. Hey I did it once or twice myself. It just makes you look bad.

[Kunae]

PropagandaWar, on 29 July 2013 - 08:34 AM, said:

Something else I want to bring up about the premade boogyman. Happened twice this weekend as well. I was a jerk but it needed to be done, in fact I'm gonna make a separate thread about it. I won't shame the teams any further by naming them. Twice this weekend a premade announced its url when the game started. One game ended 8-0 the other 8-2. Both times we were the winning force. I teased them even asked what was the name of their group again then slammed them with ours. Especially having violated tehm with mediums and 1 heavy on my lance being the high scorers against their assualts in one game. It makes you look stupid. Wait till end of game if you want people to check you out. Hey I did it once or twice myself. It just makes you look bad.

Those are my favorite kinds of matches.

Some friendly trash-talking is, imo, a natural part of any game.

[Greyfyl]

Kunae, on 29 July 2013 - 08:31 AM, said:

It has NOTHING to do with groups or not.

Anyone can solo-drop with the right mech and "new players get to experience MWO-style fights for only 10 seconds once battle starts." You are talking about a game-balance issue, not a "premade vs pug" 'issue'.

Stop blaming people who group, for PGI's lack of being able to properly, and efficiently, balance this game.


I understand where you're trying to go with this, but they shouldn't do it.

There's should be as much 'fog of war' in this game as we can put in it. No one should know who is grouped on the "other side". Similar to how you can't see what mechs your opponents are driving, initially, this would be too much info.

The only place I would even consider supporting this idea, would be for the end-game screen. Definitely at no point prior.

Edit: Spelling.

I don't think anyone is blaming the people grouping for the problem, they are simply asking PGI to fix the balance issues created by premades. This has been beat to death, if PGI wants to cater to the small number of people that will go on teamspeak or vent, then that is their right. I don't get it at all considering how easy it would be for them to remedy, but at the end of the day I think they WANT the premade players to feel special.

And really who cares whether you would see a premade tag at the beginning or at the end - as long as it's visible it doesn't matter.

[Kenyon Burguess]

- VOIP will choke the system more, all those players already fighting lag, and hit location issues with suffer another layer of complexity to the situation. I don't think it will ever be added. the player bas is going to have to pull up its big boy pants and download TS and join a group of players

-its too late for pug only drops. we have already formed communities based around our houses/clans.

example: if 3 mariks see each other in a random match, we all group up and walk together without anything needing to be said. that's instant advantage.

there will never be a day outside of the closed beta, that 16-24 players will drop and not know each other

[Mystere]

Kunae, on 29 July 2013 - 08:31 AM, said:

It has NOTHING to do with groups or not ...

Stop blaming people who group, for PGI's lack of being able to properly, and efficiently, balance this game.

Where precisely did I blame groups?

Just to refresh your memory, you said:

Kunae, on 29 July 2013 - 06:28 AM, said:

If you play in the "solo only" queue, your mechs will all be wearing floppy bunny-suits, and must hop around the map. All weapons will be Easter-themed.

To which I responded with:

Mystere, on 29 July 2013 - 07:36 AM, said:

Insulting new players in-game sure is a great way of retaining them.

and eventually:

Mystere, on 29 July 2013 - 08:19 AM, said:

... insulting anyone that wants to be in such a queue (like the bunny reference I responded to) just isn't helping at all. Some of the 1337 (real or imagined ) here should really dial things down.

Do you get it now?

[Kunae]

Mystere, on 29 July 2013 - 08:45 AM, said:

Where precisely did I blame groups?

Just to refresh your memory, you said:



To which I responded with:



and eventually:



Do you get it now?

Just to refresh your memory, you said:

Mystere, on 29 July 2013 - 08:19 AM, said:

But, we do have a problem where new players get to experience MWO-style fights for only 10 seconds once battle starts. Barring any extreme masochists, that jusn't fun for anyone.

A solo-only queue can help mitigate that "not so fun" experience.

This implicitly blames the "premade boogey-man" for the new player's "not so fun" experience. Otherwise, what is it that you are claiming that harms their experience, justifying the need for this "panacea" queue?

Do you get it now?

[Aim64C]

Geist Null, on 29 July 2013 - 08:40 AM, said:

- VOIP will choke the system more, all those players already fighting lag, and hit location issues with suffer another layer of complexity to the situation. I don't think it will ever be added. the player bas is going to have to pull up its big boy pants and download TS and join a group of players

VOIP, actually, doesn't have to -run- on their servers. It simply has to be part of the client protocol.

Though most of their problem is the game engine they chose, which was never designed for a game like this.

Quote

-its too late for pug only drops. we have already formed communities based around our houses/clans.

example: if 3 mariks see each other in a random match, we all group up and walk together without anything needing to be said. that's instant advantage.

That's not taking into account what will happen once this game "launches."

Though you're also looking at the effects of ELO bracketing. You're looking at players that do that. The trickle of new players don't - and won't necessarily know to.

Your mentality reminds me of the owner of a certain failing business:

"Why do we advertise on 'The Bridge?' No one listens to 'The Bridge?'"

"Our customers do."

Quote

there will never be a day outside of the closed beta, that 16-24 players will drop and not know each other

Like I said - you're making this argument to try and say: "The people who already play this game are doing fine."

Sure. But that's not how you grow a game. The fact is that our player base is quite small. Growing that player base should be not just the goal of the game developers - but also the goal of the community.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

Kunae, on 29 July 2013 - 08:25 AM, said:

Post hoc, ergo propter hoc?
No. The reason why the playerbase is, and has been shrinking, is because of all of the stupid crap that PGI has done over the last 10 months or so. I'll list a few of them for you.
Removed the ability of groups of all sizes to play together.
Removed knockdowns.
Nerfed jumpjets.
Nerfed SRMs.
Buffed PPC's.
No Community Warfare.
Some of these they've sort of fixed, but it takes them 4-6 months to do so, and then their "fix" breaks 7 other things, and doesn't really address the original problem.
Some of you "shrinking violets" need to stop choosing to be offended by the breeze.

And how would a new player know that any of those things have changed?
You are talking strictly about player retention, but there is always going to be player churn. Not only is it loosing existing player base for the reason you mention, but it is not attracting new players, because the frustration level is so high for new players.