341 replies to this topic

[Erghiez06]

Jestun, on 28 July 2013 - 08:13 AM, said:

Oh... I don't think it is.

But I would agree, VOIP and tweaked matchmaker criteria is the way forwards.

I should reiterate that I believe that 'seems' to be what people want when discussing proper balance. I can't speak for everyone, but is also seems to be a regular commented on issue.

If you don't mind me asking, what do you think would be a proper fix that benefits all players? Inherently one group is always going to have advantage over another, but speaking on matchmaking mechanics, what would you propose is a 'fair' and balanced approach.

Let me emphasize that I am not insulting you by subtle rhetoric, I am genuinely picking your brain so to speak. Please understand that I am very new to this game, and the only way I'll learn is by asking the seemingly mundane.

[Jestun]

Erghiez06, on 28 July 2013 - 08:22 AM, said:

I should reiterate that I believe that 'seems' to be what people want when discussing proper balance. I can't speak for everyone, but is also seems to be a regular commented on issue.

If you don't mind me asking, what do you think would be a proper fix that benefits all players? Inherently one group is always going to have advantage over another, but speaking on matchmaking mechanics, what would you propose is a 'fair' and balanced approach.

Let me emphasize that I am not insulting you by subtle rhetoric, I am genuinely picking your brain so to speak. Please understand that I am very new to this game, and the only way I'll learn is by asking the seemingly mundane.

Providing the communication tools is the best they can do IMO.

VOIP will help. There's no denying that a PUG on ingame VOIP is different to an organized group on VOIP but it at least lets you call out when enemies spotted, etc. Even a little coordination goes a long way.

An update to the map would be nice, the ability to ping the map. We've all seen mechs outside of our lockon range and tried to estimate which sector of the map they are on... this would allow people to manually place a ping on the map for your team (therefore still be limited to the player pinging instead of automatically flagging the enemy on the map like a spotting system).


Voice macros are another possibility. Pressing a couple of buttons to send a short pre-defined voice message like "Taking heavy fire" or "Enemy at twelve o'clock", perhaps with the mech sending the message flashing on the map / radar so people can judge how to react.

*note* Not recorded by the player, a system similar to that in Planetside 2 where I can press the voice macro button and then a number to call for ammo, or the voice macro button and another number to ask for a ride, etc


If people are to coordinate and work as a team then they need the tools to do so. Currently all that's provided is a rather basic text chat system.

Edited by Jestun, 28 July 2013 - 08:33 AM.

[Lucian Nostra]

OP Premade or no Premade your team put out a dismal performance. Only 3 out of the 8 people on your team managed to break 100 damage. Even against a well oiled machine your team should of been able to DO more damage than that.

Also just by looking at the names lists its possible their and your teams alpha lances where both 4 mans, unfortunately your alpha lance sucked pretty hard..

I hate to really say this but it really looks like you got teamed with a bunch of people that need to learn to aim.. Prolly spent the bulk of their alive 4 minutes trying to hit Jenners and missing (hence the sub 100 damage)

edit: I will also back up the if your facing a premade there's one on your team as well as the general rule. Everytime we drop 4 man there's almost always a premade on the other team as well. I'd say at least 80% of the time.

Edited by Lucian Nostra, 28 July 2013 - 08:43 AM.

[Erghiez06]

Jestun, on 28 July 2013 - 08:31 AM, said:

Providing the communication tools is the best they can do IMO.

VOIP will help. There's no denying that a PUG on ingame VOIP is different to an organized group on VOIP but it at least lets you call out when enemies spotted, etc. Even a little coordination goes a long way.

An update to the map would be nice, the ability to ping the map. We've all seen mechs outside of our lockon range and tried to estimate which sector of the map they are on... this would allow people to manually place a ping on the map for your team (therefore still be limited to the player pinging instead of automatically flagging the enemy on the map like a spotting system).


Voice macros are another possibility. Pressing a couple of buttons to send a short pre-defined voice message like "Taking heavy fire" or "Enemy at twelve o'clock", perhaps with the mech sending the message flashing on the map / radar so people can judge how to react.

*note* Not recorded by the player, a system similar to that in Planetside 2 where I can press the voice macro button and then a number to call for ammo, or the voice macro button and another number to ask for a ride, etc


If people are to coordinate and work as a team then they need the tools to do so. Currently all that's provided is a rather basic text chat system.

I have to agree. Alot of games have taken this approach, namely the Battlefield series. Press Q to bring up an information hub and mouse over the message you'd like to send. Its easy, and to the point. It does take a few seconds to do so but it works. I've played a bit of PS2 and I agree that the ability to 'tag' a visible enemy for the view of your teammates is a very handy ability.

Personally I dont think features such as these are too much to ask for, but again thats just me. I would still like to see some more balance to the matchmaking system, but that is of personal opinion. I've always like a rank system. Its a great tool to let other players know that you have some experience, but its also a nice e-peen booster. Just me though.

[R Razor]

Can you imagine what in-game VOIP is going to be like when everyone hears everyone else? Good God, think about how the forums look right now, most of the punks around here are going to be so busy insulting each others mother they won't have time to coordinate in the game.

Someone I dropped with said it best, the X-Box generation effect, punk kids with no maturity.

[Jestun]

Erghiez06, on 28 July 2013 - 08:41 AM, said:

I have to agree. Alot of games have taken this approach, namely the Battlefield series. Press Q to bring up an information hub and mouse over the message you'd like to send. Its easy, and to the point. It does take a few seconds to do so but it works. I've played a bit of PS2 and I agree that the ability to 'tag' a visible enemy for the view of your teammates is a very handy ability.

Personally I dont think features such as these are too much to ask for, but again thats just me. I would still like to see some more balance to the matchmaking system, but that is of personal opinion. I've always like a rank system. Its a great tool to let other players know that you have some experience, but its also a nice e-peen booster. Just me though.

Don't get me wrong, I am in no way saying I think the matchmaker is perfect as it is.

However I suspect the reason trial mechs get matched up to high ELO players is a lack of players. In which case adding additional criteria (which the matchmaker will then ignore to actually find a match) may not work as well as you would expect.

[Erghiez06]

Lucian Nostra, on 28 July 2013 - 08:41 AM, said:

OP Premade or no Premade your team put out a dismal performance. Only 3 out of the 8 people on your team managed to break 100 damage. Even against a well oiled machine your team should of been able to DO more damage than that.

Also just by looking at the names lists its possible their and your teams alpha lances where both 4 mans, unfortunately your alpha lance sucked pretty hard..

I hate to really say this but it really looks like you got teamed with a bunch of people that need to learn to aim.. Prolly spent the bulk of their alive 4 minutes trying to hit Jenners and missing (hence the sub 100 damage)

Oh no doubt we failed miserably. The reality of that particular match is a farcry from what the story the scoreboard tells. The Jenners were all very well coordinated. Systematically taking the our group out one by one. I myself stuck next to our assault before he was destroyed in the first couple of minutes in the match, followed by myself.

I do have to ask how you came to conclude that the alpha lances were premade just by looking at their names? I am asking because I don't see anything to suggest that they were, but again, I am new so I am probably missing something.

As far the two of the players in the opposing teams Bravo Lance, I know that two of them are grouped together. TheBauce and VincentVegaFC. I have a few screenshots from other games for the last couple of days where their names keep popping up together. It could of course be coincidence, but it stands to good reason to assume that they are playing together. Nothing wrong with that of course, but that would suggest multiple premades.

[Roland]

R Razor, on 28 July 2013 - 08:42 AM, said:

Can you imagine what in-game VOIP is going to be like when everyone hears everyone else? Good God, think about how the forums look right now, most of the punks around here are going to be so busy insulting each others mother they won't have time to coordinate in the game.

Someone I dropped with said it best, the X-Box generation effect, punk kids with no maturity.

[Jestun]

Roland, on 28 July 2013 - 08:53 AM, said:

I wonder if there has ever been a generation who didn't think the next one was the worst thing to happen to the world.

[Purlana]

Their worst pilot did better then your best one. None of your pilots even broke 150! I am going to go ahead and say that you would have lost horribly against even a PUG team.

[Erghiez06]

R Razor, on 28 July 2013 - 08:42 AM, said:

Can you imagine what in-game VOIP is going to be like when everyone hears everyone else? Good God, think about how the forums look right now, most of the punks around here are going to be so busy insulting each others mother they won't have time to coordinate in the game.

Someone I dropped with said it best, the X-Box generation effect, punk kids with no maturity.

I cant argue your point to any significant degree but I do agree. I stopped playing the CoD franchise expressly for that reason. Well that and the gameplay was monotonous and boring without real flavor.

That being said we can't argue that this game is built on a team-based system. Sure you can solo, or if you're really good run around on your own, but for the most part its almost mandatory that you stick with your group if you'd like to survive. The game provides a sort of lobby while the game is awaiting a full queue. I believe that this could provide ample time for those willing to mute players they'd rather not hear. I imagine most of the trash talk heard in games like CoD is because both teams can talk among each other, or even hear the raging of someone who died at your hands for a brief second.

In a game emphasizing team-based gameplay, it couldn't hurt to allow the option. I have a microphone, and I hardly use it, even when I have the ability to do so. I am just shy like that.

[Erghiez06]

Purlana, on 28 July 2013 - 08:58 AM, said:

Their worst pilot did better then your best one. None of your pilots even broke 150! I am going to go ahead and say that you would have lost horribly against even a PUG team.

I had just completed this match no more than a few moments ago.



This was the match played just prior to the aforementioned one.




My point here is that the winds can blow either way. The winning match involved inadvertent cooperation and alot of camping while focus firing those too impatient too wait. The losing one was because our team deemed it necessary to rush Theta despite being advised not to.

[Purlana]

Erghiez06, on 28 July 2013 - 09:10 AM, said:

My point here is that the winds can blow either way. The winning match involved inadvertent cooperation and alot of camping while focus firing those too impatient too wait. The losing one was because our team deemed it necessary to rush Theta despite being advised not to.

Well yes sometimes you get a good team, and sometimes you get a bad one. I thought we all knew that already. Cooperation pretty much boils down to blobbing and focus fire in most PUG matches...

Edited by Purlana, 28 July 2013 - 09:18 AM.

[Erghiez06]

Purlana, on 28 July 2013 - 09:17 AM, said:

Well yes sometimes you get a good team, and sometimes you get a bad one. I thought we all knew that already. Cooperation pretty much boils down to blobbing and focus fire in most PUG matches...

Communication is the factor. Our miserable defeat could have been averted if we had the ability to communicate. We may have still lost but immediate communication could have given a proper chance. Im going to go out on a limb and assume that even a group of trial mechs could win with proper communication. I say this because I've seen it happen.

[Waking One]

If they have a premade, so do you, they won't have 2 of them and you 0.

Those games happen all the time, whether you are running a premade or not. Stop trying to make the game **** for people who enjoy playing with friends.

[No Guts No Glory]

Waking One, on 28 July 2013 - 09:58 AM, said:

If they have a premade, so do you, they won't have 2 of them and you 0.

You have a source that confirms that?

[Aim64C]

Jestun, on 28 July 2013 - 01:22 AM, said:

Yup.

Anyone who beats me is a pre-made.

Or a hacker.

That's not what I was saying, at all.

Quit being a douche about this.

There's a reason there is a deep bruise on my knee. When I die in a game, it is because I did something stupid.

Or because my team was being ********. I really hate it when I scout the enemy, and let my team know that virtually all of the enemy is on the other side of the map... (with sensor contacts AND text chat) to watch -all- of them play PPC Peek-A-Boo with a grand total of 2 mechs long enough for the enemy to regroup and then steamroll their dumb *****.

Quote

:edit:

After reading your post I feel the need to remind people again, not all pre-mades are crack MechWarriors who have trained together their entire lives.

Sometimes friends just want to play a computer game together.

There is nothing wrong with premades.

What's wrong is that it's kind of hard to make friends in the environment where we play the game. Part of dropping as a PUG is to run into new people who you don't normally play with. Having VOIP so you can find someone to queue up with for a couple drops is kind of fun. You -can- do that on text chat, but it's horribly gimped, as you are having to disable your controls to socialize.

That's the big draw of online games - the social environment (that's a huge reason WoW became popular... not because of its gameplay, but because of being able to socialize with a wide array of people through a common, tangent interest). WoW could get by without dedicated VOIP because of the times and because of the style of gameplay - which wasn't nearly as action heavy as this game is.

The argument I'm making is not against premades. It's simply one for PUGs to level the playing field a little.

[Erghiez06]

Waking One, on 28 July 2013 - 09:58 AM, said:

If they have a premade, so do you, they won't have 2 of them and you 0.

Those games happen all the time, whether you are running a premade or not. Stop trying to make the game **** for people who enjoy playing with friends.

I'd like to stress that people pay more attention to whats being said. Having said that, I for one would like a balance that makes the game fun for everyone. You presume that I favoring a system that ruins the game for people who want to play with friends. I do not, that would be counter-productive.

I simply want to enjoy the game without being subject to the ridiculously unfair advantage alot of these 'random' match-ups provide as often as I have been seeing them. Provide me with the tools to communicate speedily and a system that allows for a level playing field. There is nothing wrong in that.

You'll notice I am not asking for weapon buffs or nerfs. I am sure there is some imbalance there, but as I have just recently started playing I make it a point to adapt to my situation. If I am in a team with missile boats I clench my ******** and hide behind a rock while systematically trying to close the distance.

You can't adapt to an unfair matchmaking system.

[Fulcrom Kerensky]

Jestun, on 28 July 2013 - 08:54 AM, said:

I wonder if there has ever been a generation who didn't think the next one was the worst thing to happen to the world.

Probably not but I do realize, that at a certain age, I was in-fact an immature punk. That being said, I think voice comms would solve many problems and should have been implemented from the start.

[Hellcat420]

Erghiez06, on 27 July 2013 - 03:11 PM, said:

tl:dr - (nutshell) Premades can render the game un-fun for others, and the state of communication in Pug games is too slow to give even a remote chance of countering a well organized premade.


I understand that this is a team based game, and that it is currently in Beta, but this is just ridiculous. Now I can't argue the effectiveness of such a tactic, or the possible fun. I have to be honest with myself and submit to the idea that I would most likely have enjoyed myself if I was on the other side of the fence, but I'd also have to be aware of how unbalanced and unfair this is.

This isn't as much a rant, or tantrum as it is a question of balance and concern for the current state of the game. Take for a moment the inability for our group to coordinate our efforts due to a lack of immediate communication options aside from third party software or services, which would of course require people to submit to the same unbalanced tactic. I Pug 99% of the games that I play. I've only played a handful of games with members found via the popular Teamspeak server advertised on these forums. It works, but it does take some time to find a group willing to knowingly take on a newer player. I've tried and I usually hear talk of things such as 'ELO' and whatnot. As a new player I had to look up what ELO was and why it was a concern, and of course once I understood what it was I couldn't argue.

I have to agree with alot of posters that due to the current state of the game premade groups should only be matched with other premades until there is a better form of in-game communication or the ability to choose your Mech while the game start is pending. Thats just me, but I find this sort of issue gamebreaking as it makes it un-fun and not playable at times.

bro you have a 4man premade on your team. having a premade 4man on your team does not mean guaranteed victory.

Edited by Hellcat420, 28 July 2013 - 10:45 AM.