198 replies to this topic

[GearBoxClock]

The Clans have always left me split in two ways. One direction says that they are an interesting addition to the game, bringing unique tech and fluff that couldn't work in the Inner Sphere.

The other way is that they have very few interesting 'Mech designs, rarely have any weaknesses besides "light" armour and the easily ignored Zell and are generally unfun to play against.

I think that a rebalance of Clan tech is nessecary if the Clans are to be added to MWO. I've never understood why their weapons have longer range, better damage and no minimum range. It doesn't make much sense from a fluff standpoint (One-on-one duels would probably be close range 99% of the time) and makes even less sense from a balancing standpoint. Perhaps giving Clan weapons reduced range and increased heat in exchange for higher damage and no minimum range would be the better choice.

What does everyone else think?

[Maxxinator]

I kept away from the Clan tech in MW4 because of insanely high levels of heat. If you could balance and pilot a mech correctly, then Clan tech works, but overall it is not easy tech to work with. I don't think there is much to change.

[Tremor]

should rename topic 'nothing'.

Devs will find a way to balance it.

[GearBoxClock]

Maxxinator, on 11 June 2012 - 04:13 PM, said:

I kept away from the Clan tech in MW4 because of insanely high levels of heat. If you could balance and pilot a mech correctly, then Clan tech works, but overall it is not easy tech to work with. I don't think there is much to change.

Dumping coolant and/or respawning rendered all but the largest heat levels irrelevant. At least, that was how it was when I last played. The heat was a much larger problem on the tabletop, but double heatsinks rendered that irrelevant.

Tremor, on 11 June 2012 - 04:17 PM, said:

should rename topic 'nothing'.

Devs will find a way to balance it.

This topic was more about "How do you think it should be balanced" than anything.

Edited by GearBoxClock, 11 June 2012 - 04:18 PM.

[Gremlich Johns]

The only problems with the Clans is misinterpreting what they are and what they will bring to the IS.

Only two things to do - welcome them or fear them.

[Aethon]

What do I think? I think you should wait until the game actually comes out, play it, THEN make balance suggestions.

[Jaroth Corbett]

GearBoxClock, on 11 June 2012 - 04:09 PM, said:

The Clans have always left me split in two ways. One direction says that they are an interesting addition to the game, bringing unique tech and fluff that couldn't work in the Inner Sphere.

The other way is that they have very few interesting 'Mech designs, rarely have any weaknesses besides "light" armour and the easily ignored Zell and are generally unfun to play against.

The Clans have LOTS of intersting mech desgins. Zell would be ignored against IS forces mostly & in my experience they have been lots of fun.

Quote

I've never understood why their weapons have longer range, better damage and no minimum range. It doesn't make much sense from a fluff standpoint

The Clans have better technology in the lore.

Quote

Perhaps giving Clan weapons reduced range and increased heat in exchange for higher damage and no minimum range would be the better choice.

There are lots of things that can be tried in theory. I am a traditionalist. I believe the IS should have the numbers advantage.

Edited by Jaroth Winson, 12 June 2012 - 01:25 AM.

[phelancracken]

Thin Armour? Say what? Adder has max practical for a 35 ton mech. Nova has fairly thick armour for a 50 tonner. Stormcrow is max armoured for a 55 tonner. Timberwolf max armour for 75 tonner. Warhawk same....shall I go on?

Several clan mechs aren't set up to being front line brawling mechs for a lack of a better way to describe them. Hellbringer, I look at you. 128 points of armour for a 65 ton heavy is criminal, TT specs. Mad Dog and Summoner were meant to be more along the line of exploiter mechs. Different roles for different mechs.

[Karl Streiger]

Yeah another clan balancing topic....must be hundreds out there - and each of them turns to ash due and become forgotten through out the months.

Although i had at the very beginning the same idea...i now realized that to balance clans isn't that necessary.
First and foremost - you clan pilots are in no way superior at those then IS Pilots
so the first balancing aspect is turned to nothing
the second aspect are the superior weapons - my question is: are they really superior - or has the standard PPC a faster recharge as the clan ER-PPC at a smaller heat output - resulting in the same dmg/s * cycle time ratio?

[Aethon]

Karl Streiger, on 12 June 2012 - 03:03 AM, said:

the second aspect are the superior weapons - my question is: are they really superior - or has the standard PPC a faster recharge as the clan ER-PPC at a smaller heat output - resulting in the same dmg/s * cycle time ratio?

Nobody knows yet...contrary to what they'll try to tell you about balance in MWO.

[MechRaccoon]

GearBoxClock, on 11 June 2012 - 04:09 PM, said:

The Clans have always left me split in two ways. One direction says that they are an interesting addition to the game, bringing unique tech and fluff that couldn't work in the Inner Sphere.

The other way is that they have very few interesting 'Mech designs, rarely have any weaknesses besides "light" armour and the easily ignored Zell and are generally unfun to play against.

I think that a rebalance of Clan tech is nessecary if the Clans are to be added to MWO. I've never understood why their weapons have longer range, better damage and no minimum range. It doesn't make much sense from a fluff standpoint (One-on-one duels would probably be close range 99% of the time) and makes even less sense from a balancing standpoint. Perhaps giving Clan weapons reduced range and increased heat in exchange for higher damage and no minimum range would be the better choice.

What does everyone else think?

...Holy crap! You're correct about everything! YOU WIN THE $1,000,000 AWARD AND A BRAND NEW MECH OF YOUR CHOICE!

[Shootanoob]

If done rightly, the standard issue clan weapon will beat its IS counterpart in every aspect save for those where it is at least on the same level. Thats being so because of the superior technology of the clans - you should never forget that instead of bombing their civilization into oblivion, they spent decades on improving their systems relatively unmolested (even if there was an armed conflict, it was fought following strict rules).

Is that a problem? I doubt that. I doubt that this is the point where balancing should take place, either. There are much and more possibilities on how can you make even matches. For example, allow only a binary to line up against a company - so the Clan players would always start shorthanded. Or set different (lower) maximum tonnage for the Clan party when facing inner sphere units. Or both.

Or allow Clan commanders to bid against each other for the right to fight the IS units - following the normal batchall rules that would automatically lead to the Clan unit attacking with the absolut necessary minimum (at least if I was a Clan Commander, I would get you to bid down until you either give up or I would see it being irresponsible to open a fight with a bid like that). While being the probably most difficult variant of balancing, that would be the one most appealing to me, for its already in the lore and would add a lot to the fun of playing Clan.

Edited by BigPuma, 12 June 2012 - 04:08 AM.

[Malsumis]

I find it somewhat amusing that many of the TT/CBT players don't seem to have much to say on this suggestion. But when it comes to changing/modifying things like torso twist, weapon ranges, mech configurations, etc, these players seem to come out of the woodwork to shoot things down as they are not 100% canon/TT rules. I really hope the devs don't make everything 100% per canon/TT. There are a lot of suggestions on the forums that would make the game a bit more flavorful and fun.

[Shootanoob]

Well, I am (ok, better: was) a long time TT player and the only thing to say crystal clear to balancing / downgrading clan weapons in the hope of IS to be able to keep up is: No, Never, leave it be.

That's nothing to do with balance, it would destroy a big part of the flavour of fighting against the clans. I want it count for something when I down a Summoner or a Vulture, not to add it simply to my list of standard-08/15-mech kills.

To see how balancing could be done in addition to that, see my post above.

[Karl Streiger]

Malsumis, on 12 June 2012 - 04:09 AM, said:

I find it somewhat amusing that many of the TT/CBT players don't seem to have much to say on this suggestion.

Hm' maybe you should take a closer look to the hundred of other topics with the intention to balance clans? This is just one of them...should i tell a hundred times the same?

[Shootanoob]

hehe, Karl, if need be, I'll join you, so it would only be fifty for each of us ;-)

[Karl Streiger]

BigPuma, on 12 June 2012 - 04:16 AM, said:

hehe, Karl, if need be, I'll join you, so it would only be fifty for each of us ;-)

What Jenner behind me? Where?

Thanks for the offer. But at least i don't want to rewrite my opinion more then 10 times - after that i start to believe the things i wrote

Edited by Karl Streiger, 12 June 2012 - 04:59 AM.

[CCC Dober]

Clan Tech just needs a timely counter. The IS could hold up against the Clans in later stages and that was not just by adapting to their tactics and logistics, but it took the old BT universe more than a decade to get there. That needs to change or at least the pace of technological progress. The moment the gap is closed or as closed as possible, then it starts to be fun. I wouldn't mind if the IS would lead in terms of technology for a while only to lose it eventually and so forth.

[Codex]

When it comes to TT, the Clans had a distinct advantage while taking disadvantages at the same time. They believe in Honorable Combat (1v1), and they always prefer to use lighter Mechs versus heavier Mechs (to take down an enemy of greater size is a more worthwhile kill). However, this never bodes well for IS because Clan Mechs are so much more powerful (better/more armor, better range/more weapons/less heat). At least we don't have to worry about targeting systems in the game.

Personally, I just hope they have some kind of salvage system built into the game, allowing you to collect weapons/Mechs from your personal or Lance kills. Taking the head off a Mad Cat and being able to pilot it in the next match just sounds thrilling.

[Roc]

I think that Clan 'Mechs should just become destroyable, if its destroyed you lose it forever. This should keep people from exploiting it. And only allow Clan weapons to be mounted on Clan 'Mechs and IS Omnimechs.