342 replies to this topic

[jakucha]

Roadkill, on 01 August 2013 - 10:27 AM, said:

All of which vanish the instant you turn it off. Yet the knowledge you gained by peaking over the wall without anyone being able to shoot at you is still valuable. Scouts will use 3PV to be invulnerable observers. Jump snipers will use it to know when to jump and which direction to be looking when they jump, then they'll turn it off to jump and shoot. The tactical advantages of 3PV are many and there's no down side because you can just turn it off when you no longer need its advantages.

All of which you never have to deal with if... you never play with 3pv enabled.

As it stands, 3pv is going to be for scrub mode.

Edited by jakucha, 01 August 2013 - 10:29 AM.

[CeeKay Boques]

Farix, on 01 August 2013 - 09:44 AM, said:

After a couple of matches, I really do miss the mini-map and think one should be available in 3PV mode. Also the target radical jumped around way too much as I moved form objects at different distances, sometimes by several meters from where it was.

While the 3PV does feel more like the MechWarrior games I use to play, I honestly don't think this will help new players out that much. In fact, it is extremely difficult to fire on another mech as either the radical jumps around too much or my own mech is obstructing my view. On top of that, the controls feel very sluggish as my torso twist is significantly slower in 3PV and I had to move the mouse further on my mouse pad to turn the same degrees as I would in 1PV. Some of these issues need to be resolved before it goes into the production server.

I disagree with everything you said, because it should a function of training, not a useful option for battle. I like this...

I especially like seeing the enemy blinking.

[Homeless Bill]

Rolled in a Cataphract for one round before work. Totally digging seeing my own 'mech / paintjob. You can see other people sooner, but the drone gives away your location.

The drone was an elegant solution, as was the reduced amount of HUD information. Well done.

Third-person combat? ******* awesome. I'll probably start using it just because everything looks more awesome.

[shellashock]

From what I have played, the FOV needs to be locked for 3rd person view or it provides a massive advantage. It doesn't matter too much for 1st person view, but FOV HAS to be locked for 3rd person.

Second, the transfer from 1st person to 3rd person needs to be a bit more realistic. If anyone has played the Modern Warfare series, then they surely would know how a predator missile works. You open a laptop, it blacks out for a sec, and when the missile detonates the screen goes all staticy for 1.5 seconds and then returns to normal view. I propose we do something similar.

When you launch the drone, it says launching drone on a black screen for 1 - 1.5 seconds.*

When you try to call it back in, it says retrieving drone on a black screen for 1 - 1.5 seconds.*

Finally, when the drone is destroyed (as in make the drone destroyable with low health), make the screen go all staticy and display the message in blinking red letters "connection lost". The blinking and hissing should be kind of like the shutdown screen when you overheat. This should last for 3 to 5 seconds. *

*- All numbers are subject to change based on test results.

Edit- loving the blinking.

Edited by shellashock, 01 August 2013 - 10:36 AM.

[ArkahnX]

I feel that third person is quite disadvantaged against first person, teams are a lot more disorderly, arm lock is basically always in effect, and you have a drone hovering over your head letting everyone know where you are.

[ManDaisy]

jakucha, on 01 August 2013 - 09:58 AM, said:

Tip: they can see your blinking drone. Good luck trying to hide with that.

YES but YOU KNOW WHAT MECH THEY ARE AND THEIR EXACT POISITION, THEY SEE A BLINKING DRONE AND DON'TKNOW YOUR EXACT POSITION.

[Shakespeare]

• Which Mech(s) did you use for this test?

Hunhcback 4SP and Atlas DDC

• What improvements would you like to see with 3rd person view?\

Reticle 'float' could do with being more predictable. At present, it's unclear whether arm-lock/reduced arm deflection in 3PV is a limitation of the mode, or a bug - if it's a limitation, I'm ok with it.

• Any additional comments or concerns.

Trading radar for 3PV is a smart setup, since the primary advantage with 3PV is situational awareness. The tradeoff makes me more comfortable with a 'mixed' game. Regarding HUD info, I'm ok with what's there - but if the damage decal system improves, I think it would be clever to remove the damage indicator while in 3rd person - ideally, you don't need it, since you can see when you lose something... and if you want a more precise, but less visceral indicator, you can stay in the cockpit.


The floating reticule is also smart, since it keeps the weapon systems from gaining strange advantages at corners or hills. That said, because the arms are locked (or close to it) in 3PV, it's hard to tell whether target tracking while moving in 3PV is easier, or if it's just the torso twist speed making it so.

Edge peeking is actually quite difficult in 3rd person view - rather unexpectedly. When I think 3rd person shooter, I think gears, or splinter cell. Those cameras are free-floating. This one is locked to the torso, completely. So far, the only time I've switched to 3rd and thought 'ah, that's better'. in combat is during a multiple target brawl...which I would otherwise depend on the radar for.

Ultimately, I like the availability of 3PV, and I'll even go so far as to say that if the HUD can be pared down a bit more (again, consider losing the damage indicator in favor of direct damage modelling), or the limitations made more clear (arm lock? reticle jumps? ease of switching?), then I would say that splitting the queue may be unnecessary for everything except CW. It is unlikely that I will be using said view myself, excepting the occasional navigation difficulty (wtf is there a leg-high fence here?) and testing grounds.

Edited by Shakespeare, 01 August 2013 - 10:38 AM.

[Roadkill]

jakucha, on 01 August 2013 - 10:28 AM, said:

All of which you never have to deal with if... you never play with 3pv enabled.

I never plan to use it. I'm worried about you using it to gain an advantage over my team. And the "plan" to segregate the community by 3PV/1PV is terrible... if the default is 3PV enabled then that's where new players will end up, which will slowly kill the 1PV queue thus forcing 1PV players to play with 3PV players or not be able to find a game.

[jakucha]

ManDaisy, on 01 August 2013 - 10:36 AM, said:

YES but YOU KNOW WHAT MECH THEY ARE AND THEIR EXACT POISITION, THEY SEE A BLINKING DRONE AND DON'TKNOW YOUR EXACT POSITION.

The simple solution like I said is don't play with 3pv mode. If you do choose to play 3pv mode, everyone has the same advantage, so there's no real issue.

Roadkill, on 01 August 2013 - 10:37 AM, said:

I never plan to use it. I'm worried about you using it to gain an advantage over my team. And the "plan" to segregate the community by 3PV/1PV is terrible... if the default is 3PV enabled then that's where new players will end up, which will slowly kill the 1PV queue thus forcing 1PV players to play with 3PV players or not be able to find a game.

I really doubt that. U.I. 2.0 will likely make it clear how to switch, and after new players see how much better 1pv is they'll probably switch over so they don't have to deal with it. Current players aren't going to be switching over in any large numbers, that's for sure.

Edited by jakucha, 01 August 2013 - 10:41 AM.

[seymourbalzac]

Well I can honestly say TPV sucks, FPV is way better and anyone using TPV will be handicapped. It's glitchy as hell on light mechs (tried it on my jenners) and I couldnt see the legs on my stalker which completely defeats the purpose of TPV. Even if these things were fixed it is still inferior to FPV. 1 thing I do like is the drone they added for people using TPV, that was a good idea.

[Squid von Torgar]

Quote

YES but YOU KNOW WHAT MECH THEY ARE AND THEIR EXACT POISITION, THEY SEE A BLINKING DRONE AND DON'TKNOW YOUR EXACT POSITION.

^ This.

It has potential to be a real game changer...not for the better.

[Nismo]

Which Mech(s) did you use for this test?
Cataphract, Highlander, Jenner, Jaegermech and Raven

What improvements would you like to see with 3^rd person view?
The reticule seemed to jump when panning from geometry to the sky or another mech making it impossible to aim in certain positions

Any additional comments or concerns.

With a FoV of 80 you do see quite a lot of the surrounding area which I found to be very beneficial when playing my lights. Might want to restrict that.

[Suko]

Can we get some videos of this in action for us suckers who are stuck at work?

[Heffay]

Quick video I made of 3PV.

[Hebdomas]

Mechs used:
Hunchback-4SP
Cataphract - 4X
Catapult - K2

Improvements:
I couldn't see my K2's legs, just it's rear torso which made piloting hard.

Comments and concerns:
The aiming reticle moves much slower in 3POV and doesn't seem as "fluid" or smooth as aiming in first person. Aiming in third felt harder and less accurate than first.

Taller mechs using 3POV could see over more objects/cover due to the angle and height of the camera.

It seems like 3POV is highly situational in use, I wouldn't turn it on for very long. For actual fighting (what this game is about) it feels like you'd be better off in first person.

[JigSaw73]

Niko Snow, on 31 July 2013 - 01:10 PM, said:

Please comment below with the following:

• Which Mech(s) did you use for this test?
  
• What improvements would you like to see with 3^rd person view?
  
• Any additional comments or concerns.

1) I used a K2 and a C4. Only Catapults.
2) Seems like the POV is a little higher than it should be. I think it would be better closer to the "eye level" of the Mech in cockpit.
3) I did REALLY like that the external camera had a beacon that was easily seen from 1PV. I think that is a great way to balance the view choice.

[SgtMagor]

thought by 3rd person I would see the whole mech, but just the upper torso is viewed. view is really limited and theres no real feedback where your legs are landing when jump jetting. but if that's intentional ok.

[Kamikaze71]

• Which Mech(s) did you use for this test?
  
  • Jenner, Centurion, Catapult
• What improvements would you like to see with 3^rd person view?
  
  • I kinda wished we had the battlegrid display while I was in 3rd person view, but I guess there has to be some limitations to the different point of view.
• Any additional comments or concerns.
  
  • For me, piloting my fast CN9-D was enjoyable with 3rd person view. But I felt limited with using in my Catapult and Jenner. I found it harder to aim under the circumstances. A fast jenner, and pinpoint firesupport of a Catapult K-2 need precision accuracy. But the medium, "in your face" brawling style of a Centurion can benefit from 3rd person for a tactical awareness of your surroundings, in my opinion.
    
  • A major concern for me was when I was using Jump Jets in my Jenner while in 3rd person. It was pretty laggy for me, so some improvements there would be nice.

[dangerzone]

My personal opinions on it...

1. Not having a map when using 3PV = GENIUS

2. Not being able to 3PV spectate other players when dead = DOUBLE GENIUS

3. I noticed that if you are in 3PV and back up into an object that would normally obscure your view, it auto returns to 1PV.
---Now that is just freaking smart.

I was very apprehensive about 3PV before playing today, and now I openly welcome it.

[Dataman]

so, this is the current implementation of what 3rd PV in MWO.
I forgot to take shots while Bryan Ekman used 3rd PV, but it looks similar to Mw4 3rd PV, more or less.

Edited by Dataman, 01 August 2013 - 10:46 AM.