342 replies to this topic

[SJ Zathrus]

tested with a Victor 9S

3pv is a huge advantage. You can see around and over obstacles to locate enemy mechs.
you can then turn it off to fight. That is total crap.

I think this is the beginning of the end of this game... it is no longer a simulator...so please take that out of your description.

[Roadkill]

jakucha, on 01 August 2013 - 10:04 AM, said:

They know something's there, you know something's there. Plus there's seismic anyway.

Not exactly. They know there's something mysterious behind the wall. You know everything that's in the entire valley including Mech types, formation, direction of travel, etc. Hardly a fair exchange of information.

[S3dition]

Some of my thoughts on 3rd person view:

It's both a substantial tactical advantage and serious drawback
When playing a sniper/long range mech, the field of view starts substantially behind your mech and the zoom functionality doesn't even put you where you would be in 1st person view. This means that anyone playing a sniper build is actually at a disadvantage if they attempt to use it. Brawlers, on the other hand, can very easily see around corners.

Defensively, it's extremely easy to see LRM's and their arc of fire, making cover much easier to attain. You can also turn into the fire to spread damage far, far easier with this view enabled. It's nearly effortless.

Losing the radar is a moot point, as far as I'm concerned. It has almost no range to begin with, and anything it highlights you could see anyway. More, actually, since you can look around corners. PGI needs to hide much more than the radar to balance out the ability to look around corners and over hills.

In large mechs, it's much easier to see if your shot is going to hit some cover your near, which is a pretty good advantage, and the field of view is dramatically increased. The little drone that's supposed to reveal your location is not visible enough for the task, and isn't going to be an issue when you're in cover (it doesn't fly high enough to go over hills).

My overall feeling is that brawlers are going to increase substantially in lethality and survivability, while snipers are going to avoid using 3rd person as much as possible.

Some suggestions:
Make 3rd person viewable from the drone. This means it will be fluttering around, have little to no interface, and probably have a bit of static and flicker in the camera. Doing this would destroy any lopsided advantages while retaining the ability to look at and pilot your mech from the outside.

narrow the field of view when using 3rd person mode to mitigate some of the advantage.

Mech: Heavy metal

Edited by S3dition, 01 August 2013 - 10:18 AM.

[reign]

Niko Snow, on 31 July 2013 - 01:10 PM, said:

Please comment below with the following:

• Which Mech(s) did you use for this test

Atlas, Jagger, Highlander, VIctor, Dragon, Quickdraw

2. What improvements would you like to see with 3^rd person view

Xbox 360 controler support.

• Any additional comments or concerns.

[Blackfang]

• Which Mech(s) did you use for this test? Centurion, Catapult, Jenner
  
• What improvements would you like to see with 3^rd person view? Less of the reticle snapping and lessen the tactical advantage of peaking over rocks, possibly a detructible camera drone on a cool down if destroyed when in mixed view matches?
  
• Any additional comments or concerns. Less of a tactical display in 3PV, lessen the hud clutter, it's suppose to be a training aid to help new players orientate the legs and torso, little more than just the reticle should be displayed I feel. Also you might want to consider making it easier to actually see the legs of your mech, all I could see on my catapult was the top of the torso and it's ears.

[jakucha]

Roadkill, on 01 August 2013 - 10:14 AM, said:

Not exactly. They know there's something mysterious behind the wall. You know everything that's in the entire valley including Mech types, formation, direction of travel, etc. Hardly a fair exchange of information.

Depending how high the camera is hovering it's not hard to discern if it's an assault or heavy for most of the mechs.

[Axex]

Mech:
Stalker 5M & F3
Atlas DDC

FPS drops under 20 both in 1st and 3rd.
massive LAG.

Can't look over the mech, only at it's back (FOV problem?)

[xengk]

MercJ, on 01 August 2013 - 09:34 AM, said:

Just to reiterate (strongly) - I'm VERY glad that the drone gives your position away in most circumstances, in fact I think this is one of the best things about it. If anything, make it bigger. This is a great implementation and in-game / "realistic" reason for how you can see your mech. A personal UAV type thing, if you will. The choice of 3PV actually gives you something else to consider - do I want to see more while giving away my position? I love these types of considerations and choices.

MC decoration for the camera drone?

[MizarPanzer]

Niko Snow, on 31 July 2013 - 01:10 PM, said:

Please comment below with the following:

• Which Mech(s) did you use for this test?
  
• What improvements would you like to see with 3^rd person view?
  
• Any additional comments or concerns.

1. I used a Cicada X-5 for this test.
2. I would like to see more 'jerks' in the reticule when moving in 3rd person view which will make shooting near impossible other than spitting ranges.

[jakucha]

Relic1701, on 01 August 2013 - 10:12 AM, said:

So what you are saying is that the ability to see over a building in 3PV gives no tactical advantage?

I'm saying any meager sight advantages it offers are trumped by:

• Gimped precision aiming
  
• Arm movement is restricted even with arm lock off
  
• You have a big drone constantly BLINK BLINKing above you at all times
  
• Can't see **** captain, up close or slightly close in front of you
  
• Aiming in general is gimped due to the constantly jittering aimers when transitioning any terrain and walls
  
• No minimap
  
• and more

A good training tool, and the devs should keep it this way.

Edited by jakucha, 01 August 2013 - 10:52 AM.

[Kamies]

I used Quickdraw, Blackjack, Cataphract, Stalker, Jagermech.

It is very, very difficult to shoot while jumpjetting in 3PV because the mech rises slighty to cover everything behind the crosshair. QKDs head is the worst thing because it just is in the way of everything while jumpjetting. Blackjack was somewhat playable in terms of stupid poptarting up and down without speed.

When jumpjetting the vibrating mech is plain murder to ones eyes. Nice touch that vibrating stops after the mech really takes off but there is way too much vibration.

Stalker works fine with 3PV.

With Jagermech the crosshair bounces all over the place while shooting and sometimes while peeking.

Edited by Kamies, 01 August 2013 - 10:24 AM.

[Kodiak Jorgensson]

• Which Mech(s) did you use for this test?

Jenner / Atlas / Cataphtact

• What improvements would you like to see with 3rd person view?

the Zoom mechanic needs to be reviewed while in third person, it feels clumsy and a little useless.

• Any additional comments or concerns.

i'm concerned that jump snipers will have an better advantage with 3rd Person view active.

[Qualtain]

Jenner and Atlas,

It is actually harder to fight while in 3pv, although that may just be that what we are used to.

Think this is an option that needs to be chosen before match and you are stuck with it. That way you can not have the best of both worlds.

The little pink light telling them I am there does not make up for the fact that I can hide behind the ridge and tell my team exactly where they are without recourse. Especially because once I am done scouting I can turn it off and run away before their light 'mech can get to me.

If I can't see it inside the cockpit you shouldn't see it outside the cockpit. at least when it comes to mechs. Sure this will make 'mechs pop in and out like magic, but you can't have it all.

Good scouts are going to abuse this to no end.

Own 'mech looks awful, almost like they are cell shaded in a game that isn't cell shaded, on all settings unless standing still.

Summary: Fighting is a little harder in FPV (I'm getting about the same dmg numbers as I am in 8man), it provides a bigger bonus to the team than the negatives balance out.

[The Trice]

• Which Mech(s) did you use for this test?

Illya and atlas-D

• What improvements would you like to see with 3^rd person view?

Well why are the arms locked in 3rd person view ? doesn't make sense !

• Any additional comments or concerns.
  Yes camer needs to take a little step to the back , when playing with an atlas , player cant even see his legs

[Suko]

MercJ, on 01 August 2013 - 09:26 AM, said:

- Make the "camera drone deploying" more of a process - it shouldn't be a quick, switchable view. Make it last maybe a second or two longer? Would need more testing to find an ideal time.

This.

I think this is very important. Choosing the right time to transition from one mode to the other (so you can't continually quick-check the minimap) is important.

[Roadkill]

jakucha, on 01 August 2013 - 10:18 AM, said:

Depending how high the camera is hovering it's not hard to discern if it's an assault or heavy for most of the mechs.

Still an insane tactical advantage for a scout. Scout doesn't care if you know it's there, it just wants to be able to observe your team's movements and report back to its team. All the scout cares about is being able to see your team without you being able to shoot back. 3PV for the win.

[jakucha]

Roadkill, on 01 August 2013 - 10:22 AM, said:

Still an insane tactical advantage for a scout. Scout doesn't care if you know it's there, it just wants to be able to observe your team's movements and report back to its team. All the scout cares about is being able to see your team without you being able to shoot back. 3PV for the win.

To be fair, scouts can use an advantage. Not like this will help their aim.

[Taco Grindr]

• Which Mech(s) did you use for this test? BJ-1X
  
• What improvements would you like to see with 3^rd person view? Larger Drone
  
• Any additional comments or concerns. maybe remove all of the hud including reticule or place camera between the mech's legs as this would show leg torso orientation w/ no tacticle advantage

[racal]

OK, no polling about Ping or hit detection. Worst I've seen in any game ever. The little camera that follows mechs is horribad, I should not be able to see a little red light from farther away then I can see the mech.

[Roadkill]

jakucha, on 01 August 2013 - 10:20 AM, said:

I'm saying any meager sight advantages it offers are trumped by:

All of which vanish the instant you turn it off. Yet the knowledge you gained by peaking over the wall without anyone being able to shoot at you is still valuable. Scouts will use 3PV to be invulnerable observers. Jump snipers will use it to know when to jump and which direction to be looking when they jump, then they'll turn it off to jump and shoot. The tactical advantages of 3PV are many and there's no down side because you can just turn it off when you no longer need its advantages.