342 replies to this topic

[Rasc4l]

Tested with my Sarah's jenner. The only good thing was I could now see the pony in the back of the mech. Other than that, it is just bad.

- Screen bobs too much at least with jenner.

- Clear tactical advantage, which is enhanced by the fact that cockpit frames are not blocking your view like inside. This results in much greater situational awareness while brawling. With Jenner, I could much more easily glance behind or around me and understand where enemy mechs are. This is the cheat part.

- The crappy part is that it's harder to aim and sure, I could brawl but wouldn't dream about using anything else than a brawler.

In conclusion: 3pv is only good for taking screenshots and I'll rather hit Alt+F4 than F4. Too bad you wasted resources on this.

[Exoth3rmic]

Moogles, on 01 August 2013 - 09:26 AM, said:

You're also at 3x zoom in your cockpit shot. Try harder

I'm in 3x zoom in both. But if you insist.

[Monky]

I used Jenner, Atlas, Victor.


some things that must happen;

1; lower the angle of the camera while keeping the drone where it is (able to peek over cliffs without being exposed currently)
2; prevent zoom while in UAV/3rd person mode (able to line up shots and jump snipe very easily now)
3; remove all HUD information aside from Friend or Foe identifiers. (You're not in your cockpit, you don't get the advantages for playing real mechwarrior.)
4; Allow people to lock on to the mech if they can see the 3rd person UAV (currently you have no idea who's spying on that field, is it a CTF-3D jump sniper or some Commando, are they going to be able to control sight lines just by having someone post up since there's no way of telling what they are?)

some of the camera angles don't even make sense for the intended purpose of 'helping newbies keep track of their legs vs torso' as I can't even see my legs in 3pv in my Atlas. Another reason the viewpoint needs to be lowered.

Edited by Monky, 01 August 2013 - 11:38 AM.

[jakucha]

Harman Smith, on 01 August 2013 - 09:39 AM, said:

It bobs up and down at every step. It's a considerable disadvantage, just see how accurately you can fire on the move!

Your arm movement and speed is also restricted in 3pv, with armlock off.

Rasc4l, on 01 August 2013 - 09:46 AM, said:

Tested with my Sarah's jenner. The only good thing was I could now see the pony in the back of the mech. Other than that, it is just bad.

- Screen bobs too much at least with jenner.

- Clear tactical advantage, which is enhanced by the fact that cockpit frames are not blocking your view like inside. This results in much greater situational awareness while brawling. With Jenner, I could much more easily glance behind or around me and understand where enemy mechs are. This is the cheat part.

- The crappy part is that it's harder to aim and sure, I could brawl but wouldn't dream about using anything else than a brawler.

In conclusion: 3pv is only good for taking screenshots and I'll rather hit Alt+F4 than F4. Too bad you wasted resources on this.

Complaining when it's not going give a huge advantage or even really a small advantage over 1pv. wat?

Edited by jakucha, 01 August 2013 - 09:50 AM.

[Ransack]

initial impression is that this game will never be the same. Not in a good way. Granted, I am remote controlling my home machine, but even on this laptop's screen of another screen, I see wider unobstructed field of view(tactical advantage). I can see my back (tactical advantage), and if I look down, I can see the ground (tactical advantage because of movement restrictions)

I will refrain from voting until I get home and can see clearly

[torraque]

• Which Mech(s) did you use for this test? Quickdraw, Jenner
  
• What improvements would you like to see with 3rd person view? I would like to see it not implemented, but since that's unlikely, making it take up a module slot would be an ideal step towards balancing it
  
• Any additional comments or concerns: The ability to switch on the fly is the biggest reason why this is not balanced, you can switch to 3pv to peer over a ridge, and then switch back to 1pv to actually be able to fight, this should not be possible, you should be locked to your chosen view mode throughout a match. Additionally, the FoV is too high in 3pv, it should be lower than 1pv, not higher.

[Cmore]

Frame rate is terrbile, all maps I'm getting 20-30 fps. Before hand on 12v12 before 3PV it was 30-40 fps. Normal 8v8 40-50 fps. Not enjoying this.

[soarra]

mechs - atlas, misery
reticle seems a bit jittery
can see over and around objects
Takes the whole sim feel out of the game, seeming too arcadey
i agree with above poster would rather hit alt-f4

[Adridos]

Mechs used for the test: Dragon, Hunchback, Blackjack, (trial) Victor

Imorvements I'd like to see:

• I really think the drone should be able to be shot down and become unusable until next battle/for some period of time.
  
• Next up, I think crosshair should definitely get removed in 3PV. It doesn't serve much of a purpose, as hitting anything in that mode is leagues harder than in 1PV and since you said you want it to help newbies, don't fool them into thinking they're better off fighting this way.
  
• Lastly, the drone should be deactivated by default once a mech overheats or shuts down. It shouldn't really be releasedable in such a state as it is basically a no brainer and clearly a superior mode to be in while the mech is deactivated.

Additional comments and concerns:

The implementation of this view mode, while quite good from the technical perspective, gives too much of an advantage to some builds. Notably, it's too easy to spot enemies while in cover to prepare for the infamous poptarting and it really adds a lot of fuel to the fire in the FOV discussion, as while changing FOV in cockpit didn't do that much from gaming perspective, in 3PV, it's the difference between light and day.

This is even more exaggarated with setting FOV to massive values (I've personally settled on 120 to prevent fisheye effect) which completely breaks the cockpit and makes the game rather unplayable in 1PV, but when used now with 3PV and a fast mech, it's like playing a run of the mill 3rd person shooter where I see everything around me in quite a massive radius which boosts the spatial awareness to ridiculous levels.

Edited by Adridos, 01 August 2013 - 10:30 AM.

[Doctor Proctor]

I used a Hunchback HBK-4H and Centurion CN9-A for testing. Overall I found the mode fine in terms of it's implementation but did have three problems with it.

1) The camera was very jerky and not very smooth moving. This was especially evident during turns. Not sure if this was lag related or hardware related (Intel Core i7 2.2GHz, Nvidia GeForce GT540M 1Gb, Low settings).

2) There was some odd behavior with the reticule. I normally use arm lock in FPV and then use Left Shift to unlock them when I need to. In 3PV though, the arm reticule was constantly moving around like arm lock was off, but the movement range was very short. Pressing Left Shift didn't really seem to change the behavior at all either.

3) Using the default FOV setting it was very difficult to see my legs at all, even at normal zoom. Seeing others with altered FOV settings play they can see their mech's legs just fine, so perhaps the FOV needs to be changed for 3PV, or the camera pulled out a little farther?

[Squid von Torgar]

Guys its terrible.

Check this out.

1st shot 1st person...here is what I see



now in 3rd person (note I haven't moved)

[Roadkill]

TexAss, on 01 August 2013 - 09:45 AM, said:

Hah? The other guy is saying you can not shoot it down.
now what?

I'm at work, so only commenting on what people are saying. If you can shoot the drone down, then why bother adding 3PV at all? If you can't shoot the drone down, then 3PV is a distinct advantage for the observer. What people seem to be failing to comprehend is that 3PV is an information warfare advantage, not necessarily a fight advantage. A person using 3PV is an invulnerable observer on the battlefield who can peer over walls/hills/etc and watch for the enemy without being exposed to enemy fire. Who cares if the enemy can see a drone over your head? The enemy can't shoot you, and that's the important part.

[TexAce]

AndyHill, on 01 August 2013 - 09:22 AM, said:

Sorry, I don't get it. You told us you'd implement this system to help newbies understand the orientation of legs and torso, but give no tactical advantage.

Well, predictably it does give a huge tactical benefit when you can see from a view far above your 'mech. That was expected. But...

...I CAN'T SEE MY LEGS! Just how is that supposed to help me orient legs and torso?

And as an icing on the cake an incredibly dumb looking blinking drone above any 'mech using the 3rd person view. But that was too much, I almost believed it wasn't a late April fools troll until I saw the light. The pink light hovering above 'mechs.

Edit: Ok, on some 'mechs you can see the legs a bit if you point the camera low enough. But still, orientation is more difficult than in 1st person.

Exoth3rmic, on 01 August 2013 - 09:47 AM, said:

That's not "not able to see no legs/ just a bit of the legs"...just saying.

The drone just needs to be destroyable like the UAV and its ok.
Make the drone be destroyable, behind your mech when you are using 3PV, and not destroyable/hidden inside the mech when using 1PV.

Edited by TexAss, 01 August 2013 - 09:56 AM.

[Relic1701]

Tried a round on testing grounds, in Frozen City Night, and in my Dragon (Flame), in 3PV I could see over a building and see a mech (not target it), that I could not see in 1PV.

To me this is a SIGNIFICANT advantage for those using 3PV.








On a secondary note, the camera is too high to be able to see the legs of the mech, and with the removal of the mini-map, it actually made it harder to coordinate upper and lower body parts.

Now, tbh, having no mini-map available is a good thing for the reduced HUD in 3PV, but having the camera slightly lower or angled down more may help those still having difficulty walking and moving.

Edited by Relic1701, 01 August 2013 - 09:57 AM.

[Zeus X]

Squid von Torgar, on 01 August 2013 - 09:52 AM, said:

Guys its terrible.

Check this out.

1st shot 1st person...here is what I see



now in 3rd person (note I haven't moved)

If this isn't a blatant tactical advantage, I don't know what is.

This is why 3PV should NEVER be implemented.

[itiziDITKA]

had a really strange bug. not sure if it was related to 3PV or not... but heres a screen shot:

https://lh3.googleus...1_47_19_006.bmp

[jakucha]

Relic1701, on 01 August 2013 - 09:54 AM, said:

Tried a round on testing grounds, in Frozen City Night, and in my Dragon (Flame), in 3PV I could see over a building and see a mech (not target it), that I could not see in 1PV.

To me this is a SIGNIFICANT advantage for those using 3PV.








On a secondary note, the camera is too high to be able to see the legs of the mech, and with the removal of the mini-map, it actually made it harder to coordinate upper and lower body parts.

Now, tbh, having no mini-map available is a good thing for the reduced HUD in 3PV, but having the camera slightly lower or angled down more may help those still having difficulty walking and moving.

Tip: they can see your blinking drone. Good luck trying to hide with that.

[Curccu]

TexAss, on 01 August 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

I cant test bcs Im away

Did they really use my hovering-behind-mech-camera-drone idea for the 3PV I posted a year ago? Is it even shootable?!
If so....my god, they listened. They finally listened.

It's shootable but not destroyable.


Centurion-A, Hunchie-H, Stalker-3F
snap on aim is killing me, it's horrible.

[Kyle Reece]

I particularly like the advantage it gives me in being able to see the blinking red light above a mech from right across the map regardless. Point crosshairs just below light, shoot ERPPCs, repeat as necessary.

Loss of the mini-map in 3rd person does nothing to me as far as "balance" is concerned. It's just annoying and inconsistent. I get everything but that? Really?

As far as the "newbie friendly" argument... It feels less intuitive; I can hardly see my legs, avoiding the invisible clipping on buildings is harder, and as an initial impression it just doesn't sit right with me. I'm sure with more time I'd get used to it, but as a newbie I'd still have a hard transition to 1st person view.

[TexAce]

Curccu, on 01 August 2013 - 09:58 AM, said:

It's shootable but not destroyable.


Centurion-A, Hunchie-H, Stalker-3F
snap on aim is killing me, it's horrible.

thx
what's snap-on aim??