342 replies to this topic

[wickwire]

ShadowVFX, on 01 August 2013 - 10:22 AM, said:

This.

I think this is very important. Choosing the right time to transition from one mode to the other (so you can't continually quick-check the minimap) is important.

Agreed. Think Hawken's repair drone


(yes i just mentioned the game which shall not be named.)

[VagGR]

the screens shots in this thread say everything that needs to be said about this...3pv GIVES a tactical advantage...period.

the hovering drone is not good enough.
1pv--> i can see the drone and i know there is 1 enemy mech there
3pv-->i can see the enemy mech, i can see which direction it is headed, i can see where its torso is twisted, i can see where it is firing at, i can see who is firing at it

and this

Squid von Torgar, on 01 August 2013 - 09:52 AM, said:

Guys its terrible.

Check this out.

1st shot 1st person...here is what I see



now in 3rd person (note I haven't moved)

hiding behind high cover
1pv-->i see nothing,
3pv-->i can see both to my left and my right due to the increased fov. also cover is high and probably hides the drone from the enemy

and literally every other image already posted in this thread...3pv screams advantage

do not, DO NOT implement 3pv...i just cant understand why is PGI so stubborn about this.

Edited by VagGR, 01 August 2013 - 02:45 PM.

[Krivvan]

VagGR, on 01 August 2013 - 02:38 PM, said:

and literally every other image already posted in this thread...3pv screams advantage

do not, DO NOT implement 3pv...i just cant understand why is PGI so stubborn about this.

Ignore the images, try actually playing it.

[Zeus X]

Krivvan, on 01 August 2013 - 02:44 PM, said:

Ignore the images, try actually playing it.

Ignoring the data that 3PV is clearly an advantage over 1PV is just willful ignorance.

3PV imo is worse than Seismic Sensors at 400m.

[VagGR]

Krivvan, on 01 August 2013 - 02:44 PM, said:

Ignore the images, try actually playing it.

i will, if they actually give us the test schedule some time in advance...now on my actual points do you think im wrong?

[Tennex]

need minimap. no drawbacks



if they make 3PV balanced, it will incentive PGI to add 3PV to all game modes.

because if it is balanced, there is no reason not to have it in all modes.


IMO instead of a drone, that dissapears and reappears instantaneously detracting from realism, would prefer a big eye icon over the location of the 3PV. it would also be more visible

Edited by Tennex, 01 August 2013 - 02:56 PM.

[Chuckie]

Squid von Torgar, on 01 August 2013 - 09:52 AM, said:

Guys its terrible.

Check this out.

1st shot 1st person...here is what I see



now in 3rd person (note I haven't moved)

True that looks like an advantage.. but if you have seismic running and the fact you have the map I think balances.. I can see on the OTHER side of the hill with seismic.. So what looks like an advantage is in some ways a disadvantage.

[Team Leader]

For those who support making it a module, give it to new players for free for the duration of the cadet bonus. Then, once thats gone, they have to buy it for 15k gxp and 6 mil cbills. This way it takes up a module slot, which some mechs are already starved for, and is a significant expense. Also, to eliminate a lot of the tactical advantage, the angle should be pointed down a lot more so you cant even see at long ranges. Just my thoughts from the screens.

[VagGR]

Chuckie, on 01 August 2013 - 02:58 PM, said:

True that looks like an advantage.. but if you have seismic running and the fact you have the map I think balances.. I can see on the OTHER side of the hill with seismic.. So what looks like an advantage is in some ways a disadvantage.

what do you think is better seeing a red blip on the minimap or seeing the actual mech?

and in order to balance 3pv the players that play 1pv have to spent another 6 mil cbills?

Edited by VagGR, 01 August 2013 - 03:05 PM.

[Krivvan]

VagGR, on 01 August 2013 - 02:50 PM, said:

i will, if they actually give us the test schedule some time in advance...now on my actual points do you think im wrong?

They did, the test schedule time just started up again too.

DCM Zeus, on 01 August 2013 - 03:02 PM, said:

If your tired of PGI bringing shamless and pointless "features" at the expense of resources that could be used else were. Please read and sign.

The resources it took for 3PV are quite negligible. It was a single person working on it, and it didn't require much beyond adding the drone model since Cryengine already had the 3PV.

[Tie Ma]

you can't see the catapult's legs. s o i'm not sure how that will help new players

[Mechteric]

matchmaker keeps booting me back to mech lab

finally went thru on 3rd or 4th try

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 01 August 2013 - 03:16 PM.

[Chemie]

If you do not think that this gives scouts a HUGE advantage, you are crazy. You can scout while being impossible to be shot at.

1st:

3rd:

1st:

3rd:

Edited by Chemie, 01 August 2013 - 03:15 PM.

[tuffy963]

Victor, Spider, Highlander, Quickdraw

There is a distinct tatical advantage in certain areas: situational awareness, on hills, in large brawls

There are a few disadvantages: probe is visible at distance, aiming is difficult at some angles, zoom is less effevtive

Here is my primary concern. Unlike like Arm Lock which is clearly a novice player tool 3PV provides advanced players with capabilities too. Arm lock has no upside for the expert player, 3Pv does.

During game play I was already starting to quickly rotate through both views. I can imagine that, eventually, I would be an expert at shooting from both 1PV and 3PV; fluidly swapping between both perspectives to maximize my view, aim, and situational awareness in any given situation. I don't believe that is the 3Pv intended use....

I recommend that you institute a set of changes that are focused on novice's initial game play experience, but that will have the players quickly "outgrow" 3PV, just like they do with arm lock. The suppression of the mini-map is a step in the right direction, but it does not go far enough. Here are a few examples of other features to make 3PV a true beginner's tool. When using 3PV...

• Disable zoom or limit zoom to 1.5x only
  
• Disable cross-hairs
  
• Force arm lock
  
• Must enable/disable feature from options menu
  
• Decrease transition speed between views
  
• decrease torso twist & turn speed
  
• suppress paper doll
  
• Cannot enable night vision or thermal
  
• Cannot lock onto targets

2-3 of these would tone down 3PV to allow a new player to hop in a mech and start shooting, but they would quickly realize they are missing some serious functionality once they got familiar with the "novice" view.

Right now this feature has great utility for expert players too. I don't think that was it's original intent.

Edited by tuffy963, 01 August 2013 - 03:21 PM.

[Tennex]

3PV makes the game a ton of fun

would love it if i coul dsee my map

[Droz]

Tested with Stalker 5M

This is horrible.

I can hide myself behind a big rock, and watch as mechs might come around, and see around corners in 3PV, whereas in 1PV I would not be able to see this.

This is pathetic. The MAJORITY of the community has spoken that 3PV is bad for the game, not to mention practically the entire Founders community has said not to implement it. For once in your existence, PGI, listen to us. Don't implement it.

[Zeus X]

3PV CLEARLY has an advantage over 1PV and if you say otherwise you're either blind or just being willfully ignorant.

I put up the POS meter to show that the position was not changed going from 1PV to 3PV.

[Shakespeare]

Addtl feedback: I find myself switching out of 3PV during fights - I depend too much on arm weapons and a predictable reticle. As I understand it, the reticle 'jump' is because the actual weapon aimpoint isn't being recalculated in 3rd person vs 1st. This is good, keeps 3PV from having a MORE stable firing platform, but a middle ground..that is, more predictable crosshair behavior, would be important.

Utility of 3PV is highly situational. Pictures do not tell the whole story. Yes, mathematically, a 3PV player is seeing more of the screen, and at a slightly different angle. But adjustments to camera behavior can negate even those advantages. As stated, it feels more like a vanity mode now, except for scouts, or for tricky terrain.

Transition from one to the other needs to be slower, or locked down at beginning of match, in order to reduce 'Peeking', lest MWO develop a phenomenon similar to Cod's absurd 'quickscope' technique. Players should not feel that they have to 'game' the systems at play to do well.

12v12 is still awesome. Needs weight restrictions to put mediums at the forefront of battle. Best matches so far were with a few assaults, many mediums.

[Morderian]

3Pv is not bad but i think it need the ability to move your arms like in First person view thats the only thing i dont like about it but the rest is ok , missing map is ok makes up for better all around view and you can also not zoom in that good what i also sa its good as an drawback for 3rd person, the only thing i dont like is really the arm movement it fees like playing with armlock and thats what i dont like

edit. also give us an free look in 3rdP cause i want to see my mech from all angles^^

Edited by Morderian, 01 August 2013 - 04:02 PM.

[DocBach]

Team Leader, on 01 August 2013 - 03:01 PM, said:

For those who support making it a module, give it to new players for free for the duration of the cadet bonus. Then, once thats gone, they have to buy it for 15k gxp and 6 mil cbills. This way it takes up a module slot, which some mechs are already starved for, and is a significant expense. Also, to eliminate a lot of the tactical advantage, the angle should be pointed down a lot more so you cant even see at long ranges. Just my thoughts from the screens.

This is a really good idea.