283 replies to this topic

[Randalf Yorgen]

Belorion, on 01 August 2013 - 11:50 AM, said:

Lucky for you there is an afternoon test.



It has 3pv too.

Yes, but it's there from the start and you know all about it.

[Coolant]

Tabrias07, on 01 August 2013 - 09:52 AM, said:

How about this?

mmm...me like

[Fishhawk]

Hotthedd, on 01 August 2013 - 11:45 AM, said:

...and it is more of a simulation without any of it.

I agree. I don't care for it. But I don't think it's a game breaker. Will people leave just because of 3PV? Probably, but that's their perogative.

I'm neither FOR or AGAINST 3rd Person View. I'll use it when it seems beneficial, but that's what I do with Seismic and UAVs.
I just see it as another tool to use on occasion. Unless we drop 'hardcore'.

[Darkblood]

FrDrake, on 01 August 2013 - 09:56 AM, said:

So they both know where the other is, when if he had stuck with 1pv then neither would know where the other was. Not sure if that's better or worse or just different. My only problem with 3pv is splitting the queues up more.

The thing is, the guy using 3PV knows more than WHERE, he knows what Mech is there, and if it looks long enough he will know if the guy is using PPCs, LRMs or is just a brawler. He basically knows everything about his enemy but damage. The poor soul on the other side tough, all he sees is a red dot, it could be a commando or an atlas for all he knows.

[aniviron]

xengk, on 01 August 2013 - 08:59 AM, said:

3PV is part of MechWarrior for a long time.
Will see what will be MWO's implementation look like.

Spoiler

I keep hearing people using the argument from history fallacy, "but Mechwarrior has always had 3pv!" Yes, and it's also always been a singleplayer game primarily. The AI didn't care if you peeked over ridges at them to gain tactical information you shouldn't have. Hell, it didn't care if you turned cheats on and removed heat and damage tracking from your own mech. Should I post, "Being able to turn off heat tracking has always been something you could do in mechwarrior games, why can't I do it in MWO?" The answer should be pretty obvious- because it gives me an unfair advantage. Third person view is exactly the same. It gives you an unfair advantage over people who want to play a simulation game. For that matter, it also throws a wrench into all the game balancing that has been done so far, as today's test proved that being able to line up shots over hills just makes ppcs and gauss even better than they already were.

So sure, if you want 3pv, you can have it- in your singleplayer games. It has no place in MWO, and I just can't see why you'd defend it. The switch from single-player emphasis to multiplayer-only means that you can't just stick with the same game mechanics that have been used for a decade now.

[Huge]

Mech Assault 2
~High Alpha strikers
~3PV
~VTOLs, Tanks, Elementals
~Destructible environments
~Pre-game lobby
~Persistent online galaxy map with conquerable planets and community warfare

MW:O
~High Alpha strikers
~3PV



Why is a decade old xbox game doing MW:O better then MW:O?

[DeathofSelf]

Fishhawk, on 01 August 2013 - 11:48 AM, said:

But that's good. We need more scouting tools. And if they DO see your big neon flashing light, they can tell their team where their spotter is located.

Evens out to me.

You are still missing the point. Lets say I am scouting for my team on Caustic Valley. I am hiding behind a ridge enought to see over using 3pv but not enough to give the enemy anything to shoot at. Lets say they all see my 3pv beacon. I can tell my team where they are and where they are going and if anyone comes after me FAR in advance. I have risked nothing to gain that intel. Of course this will also turn into a stalemate at some point when both teams do this and we are back to some form of trench warfare. Sorry but that does not sound like fun to me.

And following you logic of scouts needing more info tools, hell, why not go all out and give them a birds eye view of the whole map including enemy locations.

Edited by DeathofSelf, 01 August 2013 - 12:02 PM.

[LaserAngel]

Belorion, on 01 August 2013 - 11:50 AM, said:

Lucky for you there is an afternoon test.



It has 3pv too.

You also get no HUD.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Belorion, on 01 August 2013 - 10:25 AM, said:

That would be awesome just in general. They should totally make that the case. Not sure I would always shoot it down though. It helps show where they are.

Having it be possible to pop the enemy 3pv drone would be epic, and could well make the difference between this being a bad thing and this being a good thing.

It'd help immersion, it'd help gameplay, and it'd be funny to have an enemy constantly having to pop drones out of his back to stay in his precious 3pv mode.

[MasterC]

After testing out 3PV, I don't think we need a separate queue for it. Whatever advantage it is alleged to give seems marginal to me based on today's tests.

So here's an idea. Rather than having separate queues for 3PV and non-3PV play, have a cue for those who wish to play with the new heat penalty and a hard core queue for those who don't want the heat penalty.

Edited by MasterC, 01 August 2013 - 12:02 PM.

[ROJ]

Camahueto, on 01 August 2013 - 10:12 AM, said:

"A thinking person's shooter" - Well, not anymore.

Whether they implement 3pv successfully or not.. It serves as a redflag for many of the MW players here, for that reason people start to worry that this game is taking a different direction from what it was supposed to be.. They should be listening to what MW communities and veterans have to say about it more than anybody else. Next thing I know this will become a call of duty with giant mechs someday..

Edited by ROJ, 01 August 2013 - 12:06 PM.

[TIRANO QUATTRO]

Making the game easier
for the people who can't improve their game
will not make MWO a more popular game.

RIP 3PV

[Max Fightmaster]

Randalf Yorgen, on 01 August 2013 - 11:43 AM, said:

Good points and good name drops for the other games , but the problem is once the paying players leave and the game is sinking there is nothing that will bring those players back. Like evolution they get one kick at the cat however this time I think they kicked a sleeping tiger and are about to lose their leg for it. How big a loss can they handle before they are in critical condition? 25%, 15? I think it's much closer to 10% and maybe a little less than that. Call it a gut feeling.

Perhaps this will be a lesson learned for the next adaptation of this game, where the playerbase/testers will demand a clearly set out document that lists the intention of the game company that way no one can say that they didn't know what they were getting and the game company can pull fast little switches mid stream and later claim that was how it was all along. I was a closed beta tester from the third round of invites, prefounders packages and really liked and had faith in what I saw then, lately though things have been quite a let down.

That's the thing, though... I think they might be projecting that they're heading towards that critical point. I mean consider this: The game has been post-Foundership for a year now (give or take? I can't remember when it was aside from mid-2012). Think of all the other games, distractions, betas, things to do that have come up which have eroded away the paying playerbase with little to do to incite new blood to come in. There've been many things, many fun things that have come up since then, and I think PGI is either feeling that now or projects that they will be taking that hit very soon; I think they're well past 25% deprecation, I don't have any numbers to back that up but I've seen about 1/3 less Founder tags in the matches I've played, give or take considering sleep deprivation

Personally what I think they should do is offer the game as F2P but have Starter Packages for, say, $10 or $5 increments, where you get a small cache of MC, one or two mechs and mechbays, etc. Something small enough to entice someone to immediately commit $10 or so to the game. Things like 3PV are just polish and veneer in an attempt to catch more fish, but you have to retain them and incite them into investing...

Ah well, time to head to work

[Roland]

Randalf Yorgen, on 01 August 2013 - 11:52 AM, said:

Yes, but it's there from the start and you know all about it.

It's also a space game, so you aren't really looking over ridges and walls.
Derp.

[xCico]

I'll only use 3PV to see whats over hill, otherwise cockpit view you cant replace

[Fishhawk]

DeathofSelf, on 01 August 2013 - 11:57 AM, said:

You are still missing the point. Lets say I am scouting for my team on Caustic Valley. I am hiding behind a ridge enought to see over using 3pv but not enough to give the enemy anything to shoot at. Lets say they all see my 3pv beacon. I can tell my team where they are and where they are going and if anyone comes after me FAR in advance. I have risked nothing to gain that intel. Of course this will also turn into a stalemate at some point when both teams do this and we are back to some form of trench warfare. Sorry but that does not sound like fun to me.

And following you logic of scouts needing more info tools, hell, why not go all out and give them a birds eye view of the whole map including enemy locations.

What about if by the time you pop-up the 3PV that you miss the sneaky Jenner who is outside your HUGE (/sarcasm) field of vision. And since you have no map or seismic, you fail to see the said Jenner sneak up behind you and pop you.

I think you are using the worst case scenario. I don't believe because of 3PV all of a sudden neither side will engage.
It's just going to cause a little more tactical awareness. Most maps provide a lot of cover.

You notice in the one example screenshot someone posted that it was a mech below the ridgeline spotting a mech STANDING ON TOP of a ridgeline. That in itself is a bad idea.

[Xeno Phalcon]

Watching the NGNG play on twitch/ign channel (gotta skip to a hour in though). Those cameras are TINY as hell. I like being able to admire my mech in a vane way, but its really looking like mechassault online.

[Pyrrho]

Huge, on 01 August 2013 - 09:27 AM, said:

Yes I am. I don't like being lied to. I especially don't like being lied to after someone takes my money.

Technically they lied before taking your money. Once they had your money, it didn't matter to them that you found out, is all.

[Hotthedd]

Fishhawk, on 01 August 2013 - 12:12 PM, said:

What about if by the time you pop-up the 3PV that you miss the sneaky Jenner who is outside your HUGE (/sarcasm) field of vision. And since you have no map or seismic, you fail to see the said Jenner sneak up behind you and pop you.

I think you are using the worst case scenario. I don't believe because of 3PV all of a sudden neither side will engage.
It's just going to cause a little more tactical awareness. Most maps provide a lot of cover.

You notice in the one example screenshot someone posted that it was a mech below the ridgeline spotting a mech STANDING ON TOP of a ridgeline. That in itself is a bad idea.

The camera rotates. You can do a 360 while using it.

[Fishhawk]

Hotthedd, on 01 August 2013 - 12:20 PM, said:

The camera rotates. You can do a 360 while using it.

Really? How did you rotate your camera? I was trying to rotate the camera but my 3PV seemed tied to my torso movement.