402 replies to this topic

[Koniving]

aniviron, on 06 August 2013 - 08:05 PM, said:

Haha, my favourite part is at 0:56 seconds where it kills a light mech with SRMs. I don't know what game they were playing to get that footage, but it certainly wasn't MWO, I can tell you that.

Before HSR, with an Awesome 8R I used to butcher lights with SRMs. I got asked at one point how I got "Streak 6's" because I was so accurate. After... most of them won't really register.

White Bear 84, on 06 August 2013 - 08:59 PM, said:

Not at all encouraging boating by all means, but as i was looking at builds it just really stood out for this particular mech.. ..i suppose i cant really say much until i have given it a try. Will start with the default build and see how it turns out and go from there. Thinking of trying this.Up cooling efficiency from 28% to 38% at the cost of dps and firepower. Given that SRM are heat linked the default looks like its going to be challenging to play without overheating and doing internal damage. Adding the LL add some long range firepower and reduce reliance on ammo.

I'm aware I was just stating it to state it. Speaking of which because the MC is already up there, I decided to get the Golden Boy.

I am going to stop my collection of hero mechs, however, and avoid buying any additional MC for a bit. I'm a bit short on cash.

Spoiler

There's also PGI's concept of balancing which has been iffy at best as of late. First a heat system attempt to allow high alpha strikes and eliminate heat neutral builds only to realize that mechs die too fast because of it, then raising laser heat to wipe them from practical existence. Then lowering PPC heat to be that of 2 ML, but clearly the PPC is superior in every way. So, 10 damage with 2 ML, no range, 1 full second of focus for 8 heat.. or a PPC for lots of range and instant damage for 8 heat? Then when the mistake is realized, the alpha strikes happen a lot, PGI goes with a penalty system, punishing you if you alpha strike. This causes you to space out your shots. Before long people begin going for more heat neutral builds... Did we just go full circle here?

Personally if I was running balancing, I'd aim for a heat system that encourages damage over time versus burst (alpha) damage. You could still do plenty of burst damage, but with it would be lower endurance (due to higher heat). If you go with damage over time instead, you have much better endurance (lower heat, slower build up) and can keep running around while the guy with high alpha might get a shot or two out and shut down.

[Deathz Jester]

SteelPaladin, on 02 August 2013 - 10:16 PM, said:

It bumped the Orion, which is commonly associated w/the FWL (who have no signature mechs currently in the game).

While I would still love to see the Orion, are you forgetting the Cicada and the Awesome? both are FWL mechs, and the Awesome is considered "signature"

[Johnny Two Legs]

Ngamok, on 06 August 2013 - 09:49 AM, said:

Yes, take speed tweak away from Heavies and Assaults. Replace it with a new efficiency that makes sense for a heavier mech. People who play the slow heavies and assaults will either go for the faster ones or make fast mediums popular again.

This is a good idea.
Make the skill trees differ slightly dependant on the class or even if the mech has some unique qualities.

This.. This has potential.

j2l

[White Bear 84]

Koniving, on 06 August 2013 - 10:46 PM, said:

[/size]
I'm aware I was just stating it to state it. Speaking of which because the MC is already up there, I decided to get the Golden Boy.

All good. How are you finding it? It may have tarnished my 12v12 first impressions. Not a good time to be a brawler...

[Shiro Matsumoto]

Hmm i WANT to like this Mech.. cockpit, look and sound is great..

Basic config runs TOOOOOOO HOT.... tried 3 ML & Full Streak 2: no punch. Finally settle to max Engine / 3 ML / 5x SRM4 (Grouped torso- and arm missile to avoid heat penalty..)... works so far but..

12v12 is really bad for any kind of medium brawler...

[aniviron]

Koniving, on 06 August 2013 - 10:46 PM, said:

[/size]

Before HSR, with an Awesome 8R I used to butcher lights with SRMs. I got asked at one point how I got "Streak 6's" because I was so accurate. After... most of them won't really register.

Yeah, sometime back around maybe December I remember my HBK-4SP was my premiere light killer, I could reliably land 12 SRMs on target over and over against Jenners and Commandos (though it was probably closer to 8-10 on Commandos, just because of the spread size). I will admit that missile hitreg was pretty bad before HSR, but I don't think HSR really helped any. My AWS-8R honey badger avoids lights like the plague. Seriously, I might as well run it with LRMs for how bad it is against light mechs- my only options are to retreat back to the team or hope that they're already damaged enough 2mlas and 1llas are enough to drive them off. Even against shutdown lights, 48 SRMs at 50m or less doesn't even get armor to orange.

I'd forgotten how reasonably good against lights SRMs used to be. How did we make so much backwards progress?

[Koniving]

I ran the Kintaro last night with 5 LRM-5s, 900 LRMs, and one ER PPC. Best score I had of the night.

But still can't reach 500 damage, when my XL carrying Hunchback can reach that easily.

---

Gotta remember, Ani, within 20 seconds of this short video, I stripped and destroyed every component above the legs of this Stalker. Each SRM did splash -- less need for accuracy -- and up to 18 or so damage per missile since splash multiplied the damage exponentially.

Edited by Koniving, 07 August 2013 - 07:34 AM.

[Koniving]

White Bear 84, on 07 August 2013 - 05:32 AM, said:

All good. How are you finding it? It may have tarnished my 12v12 first impressions. Not a good time to be a brawler...

I found it better after switching to LRMs, as I suspected I would. Treat it like a proper Trebuchet, not an MWO Treb.

[Kitane]

I did around 630-670 damage in Kintaro with 5 LRM5, 2 MLAS+Tag, XL280 and 1440 missiles. I believe I had 180 missiles left before the rest of the enemy team finally catched up. I was pretty close to finishing two more assaults as I already took their CTs to red, but my luck ran out.

Using it as a LRM boat works pretty well, its main vulnerability isn't so bad when I am staying at distance.

[Wales Grey]

Koniving, on 07 August 2013 - 07:32 AM, said:

Each SRM did splash -- less need for accuracy -- and up to 18 or so damage per missile since splash multiplied the damage exponentially.

"Exponentially"? Is there some mechanic I'm not aware of that makes splash damage result in Dmg^X instead of Dmg*X?

[Koniving]

Wales Grey, on 07 August 2013 - 08:44 AM, said:

"Exponentially"? Is there some mechanic I'm not aware of that makes splash damage result in Dmg^X instead of Dmg*X?

Didn't know you had to like yourself, but...

2.5 damage * 2 or 3 or 6 components, mkay good point. 2.5 * 6 components is 15 damage + the impact is 17.5. 2.5* 8 components (commando dead center) = 20 damage.

So not exponentially. But yes raising your reputation by liking yourself doesn't lead to much credibility even when you are right.

[PoLaR]

The Kintaro and brawling can be compared to BattleTech canon and MechAssault..

WTF

[M4L4R3K]

Koniving, on 06 August 2013 - 02:35 PM, said:

I don't know anything about the CT tidbit, but this basically means if you allocate more armor to the front you also protect your back.

Some missile pods, namely the CT, have only 2 or 4 tubes on the different Kintaros. Looks like space for 4 but I can't see inside them within the mechbay. Others also have limits. Meanwhile one of the arm ports can do up to 20 tubes (LRM 20 anyone?) while another does 10. So I believe that is intended. I figure it's to limit the alpha potential. This also causes the heat to spike up in "parts" rather than completely.

I understand what you are saying but i have tested them in many ways.

my build had an srm6 in the right shoulder and 2 srm4s in the CT, i have also tried CT srm6 and RT srm6. I thought it could have been due to ammo being stocked in a different location within the mech, there could be a delay to feed the tubes.(Yeah I know that was kinda crazy)

In one last attempt, i tried with one srm4 and ammo in the CT and one srm6 in the RT with ammo. Each config always did the same thing: shoot the RT srm6 first then the CT srms half a second later. All of the configs were tried in group fire.I even tried ungrouping then regrouping the weapons (Like I said before, even with the missile pods opened.) Maybe I am the only unlucky guy getting this kind of thing while playing :s

[Nehkrosis]

Im just happy PGI have a good sense of humour, and taste in anime

[Koniving]

M4L4R3K, on 07 August 2013 - 10:39 AM, said:

I understand what you are saying but i have tested them in many ways.

In one last attempt, i tried with one srm4 and ammo in the CT and one srm6 in the RT with ammo. Each config always did the same thing: shoot the RT srm6 first then the CT srms half a second later. All of the configs were tried in group fire.I even tried ungrouping then regrouping the weapons (Like I said before, even with the missile pods opened.) Maybe I am the only unlucky guy getting this kind of thing while playing :s

Last night I bought one. Had 2 SRM-4s in the CT. Could not replicate your issue. Also tried LRM 10, 2 LRM 5s, SRM-6 and Streaks. If I leave the doors shut, there's a delay for the first volley but so long as I hold the button there's no more delays. Try holding the firing key in testing grounds, and see if the delay keeps up with 3 SRM-6s. There's only a door on the center torso, that's it.

Edit: Wrong key. lol @ SRM-5s.

Edited by Koniving, 07 August 2013 - 11:08 AM.

[Shae Starfyre]

Just adding my voice to the the already voiced.

CT is too big, 'Mech is too big.

[LoveLost85]

M4L4R3K, on 07 August 2013 - 10:39 AM, said:

I understand what you are saying but i have tested them in many ways.

my build had an srm6 in the right shoulder and 2 srm4s in the CT, i have also tried CT srm6 and RT srm6. I thought it could have been due to ammo being stocked in a different location within the mech, there could be a delay to feed the tubes.(Yeah I know that was kinda crazy)

In one last attempt, i tried with one srm4 and ammo in the CT and one srm6 in the RT with ammo. Each config always did the same thing: shoot the RT srm6 first then the CT srms half a second later. All of the configs were tried in group fire.I even tried ungrouping then regrouping the weapons (Like I said before, even with the missile pods opened.) Maybe I am the only unlucky guy getting this kind of thing while playing :s

the GB has missile doors in the CT, open them with "/" for insta-fire like with the 'pult

[Ngamok]

M4L4R3K, on 07 August 2013 - 10:39 AM, said:

I understand what you are saying but i have tested them in many ways.

my build had an srm6 in the right shoulder and 2 srm4s in the CT, i have also tried CT srm6 and RT srm6. I thought it could have been due to ammo being stocked in a different location within the mech, there could be a delay to feed the tubes.(Yeah I know that was kinda crazy)

In one last attempt, i tried with one srm4 and ammo in the CT and one srm6 in the RT with ammo. Each config always did the same thing: shoot the RT srm6 first then the CT srms half a second later. All of the configs were tried in group fire.I even tried ungrouping then regrouping the weapons (Like I said before, even with the missile pods opened.) Maybe I am the only unlucky guy getting this kind of thing while playing :s

If there are port doors on the CT and not the shoulder, that could explain the delay. Like teh Stalker, Catapult, Centurion bay doors.

[Koniving]

Aphoticus, on 07 August 2013 - 11:16 AM, said:

Just adding my voice to the the already voiced.

CT is too big, 'Mech is too big.

The Kintaro as I've noticed... the side torsos are nothing more than the shoulders, leaving the actual full body to be the center torso. Because of this design there's almost zero risk at all in using an XL engine. However, also because of this design the center torso is extremely vulnerable from all sides.

The arms are large, affording you protection from the sides, but their armor is weak, ensuring they won't protect you for long. The mech is not particularly tall or wide (it's still thinner than a Centurion) but because of its center torso being the full width of a Treb's torso without arms, it's a fairly large target.

As I suspected from the tube counts in smurfy, the moment I switched from SRMs to LRMs, and took a lore-friendly Trebuchet's or Dragon's treatment to combat, my performance almost tripled.

Koniving, on 07 August 2013 - 10:47 AM, said:

I had Christopher King take a snap of my Golden Boy next to an Atlas. Though the Treb is almost as tall as an Atlas as shown in a past image dump of my Treb versus an Atlas, it turns out Goldenboy is quite a bit shorter, but significantly wider than a Treb. The Kintaro's CT is approximately as wide as a Trebuchet's entire torso.

Spoiler

This is gonna take some getting used to.

My Treb behind an Atlas.

Spoiler

Now, at one point I talked with a new player. She played MW2 and MW3 only, knew almost nothing of tabletop. The topic was Trebuchet and its height.

I told her when she was choosing the Centurion, that its natural duty is to defend the Trebuchet. I then asked her about the Trebuchet's height compared to an Atlas, even though the Treb is half the weight. I was standing next to one to demonstrate

Her response was this: "It might be the same height but it's a lot skinnier. Just the arms make it look big. You said the Trebuchet's natural function is to lob LRMs, right?"
"Right."
"Then it needs to be tall to help it shoot LRMs over hills, much like my little brother's Hunchback 4J's launcher compared to his other Hunchbacks and their Hunches."
"But people throw on SRMs and brawl with it."
"That's their own fault." (In reality her actual response is "Then they're @#$%@#$ stupid.")

So I asked her, "What about the Centurion? It's almost as tall as a Highlander and twice as wide as a Trebuchet."
"You just said it's a Treb's bodyguard. Well then it has to be able to take abuse in the Treb's place. Since I was reading about it last night, the Centurion's also supposed to be able to dodge to the side, grab things with its arm, and isn't supposed to fight close range anyway. The game needs a button to let me bring that shield in front of me in different positions."

Just food for thought.

I never saw it that way before. Now I want a button to reposition that arm. I can think of 4 great positions. One, where it is now. Two, ahead of me, to protect the torso as I approach (but it'd block the missiles). Three, raised in front of the cockpit, as you never know when you need it. Four, held out as far left as possible with the claw extended to try and trip lights as I run by. <--Vid of a Lariat (wrestling clothesline) from an Atlas against a Hunchback.

Edited by Koniving, 07 August 2013 - 02:47 PM.

[Deathz Jester]

Koniving, on 07 August 2013 - 12:06 PM, said:

The Kintaro as I've noticed... the side torsos are nothing more than the shoulders, leaving the actual full body to be the center torso. Because of this design there's almost zero risk at all in using an XL engine. However, also because of this design the center torso is extremely vulnerable from all sides.

The arms are large, affording you protection from the sides, but their armor is weak, ensuring they won't protect you for long. The mech is not particularly tall or wide (it's still thinner than a Centurion) but because of its center torso being the full width of a Treb's torso without arms, it's a fairly large target.

As I suspected from the tube counts in smurfy, the moment I switched from SRMs to LRMs, and took a lore-friendly Trebuchet's or Dragon's treatment to combat, my performance almost tripled.




Now, at one point I talked with a new player. She played MW2 and MW3 only, knew almost nothing of tabletop. The topic was Trebuchet and its height.

I told her when she was choosing the Centurion, that its natural duty is to defend the Trebuchet. I then asked her about the Trebuchet's height compared to an Atlas, even though the Treb is half the weight. I was standing next to one to demonstrate

Her response was this: "The Trebuchet's natural function is to lob LRMs, right?"
"Right."
"Then it needs to be tall to help it shoot LRMs over hills, much like my little brother's Hunchback 4J's launcher compared to his other Hunchbacks and their Hunches."
"But people throw on SRMs and brawl with it."
"That's their own fault."

So I asked her, "What about the Centurion? It's almost as tall as a Highlander and twice as wide as a Trebuchet."
"You just said it's a Treb's bodyguard. It has to be able to take abuse in the Treb's place. Since I was reading about it last night, the Centurion's also supposed to be able to dodge to the side, grab things with its arm, and isn't supposed to fight close range anyway. The game needs a button to let me bring that shield in front of me in different positions."

Just food for thought.

One day.... we will have melee (hopefully) and then the Centurion's lethality will double with that claw arm.