129 replies to this topic

[Johnny Marek Summers]

It's been a long time since I read the novels, but I thought that companies (12 mechs) were supposed to have 3 lances (4 mechs) that were organized by size. Usually 1 scout lance (with lights and fast mediums), 1 assault lance (heavies and assaults), and a command lance (usually a mixed bag) unless the company was sort of PUG-ish (a starting mech company) and mechs were only sort of organized along those lines.

[Johnny Reb]

Sam Slade, on 07 August 2013 - 10:18 PM, said:

For low specs players 12 vs 12 is just the end of the game. Too much rubberbanding and lag, not to mention GPU 'lag'... considering almost every high specs gamer will be migrating to Star Citizen I forsee the beginnings of a slow decline here.

Well, I have been here over a year with this pc. One patch wont make me quit. However, fps must get better! Last patch fine fps!

[travelbug]

Johnny Reb, on 07 August 2013 - 10:17 PM, said:

Yes, however, a good player (which I think you are dropping with/against you) can survive and make a fight of it. I imagine the pugs are the first to die and fast. I don't fancy myself a good player (only competent player) and had this happen. With the reduced earnings, I feel for new players more than I ever did.

exactly.
with the elo system discussed here, guys at the top of totem pole like closed beta solo puggers and experienced four man groups just got fed a boat load of cannon fodder by pgi. so of course more experienced players will like the new system.

[Appogee]

Since 12v12 was introduced my win rate has plummeted to 15%. It was previously 55%.

This picture shows what's happening. I am dropping with teams in which at least 4 of the players are very inexperienced. In this game, 4 players on my team scored less than 5 points. 2 players scored less than 10 points. That's half the team who died quickly and cheaply, leaving the remaining six of us totally outgunned.

I don't mind losing. But I want to have a fair chance of winning.

Edited by Appogee, 07 August 2013 - 11:44 PM.

[travelbug]

Appogee, on 07 August 2013 - 11:39 PM, said:

Since 12v12 was introduced my win rate has plummeted to 15%. It was previously 55%.

This picture shows what's happening. I am dropping with teams in which at least 4 of the players are very inexperienced. In this game, 4 players on my team scored less than 5 points. 2 players scored less than 10 points. That's half the team who died quickly and cheaply, leaving the remaining six of us totally outgunned.

I don't mind losing. But I want to have a fair chance of winning.

if you were having a bad time, think what those noobs must be feeling.

in a 12v12 pug if you are down 4v8 it would be very, very hard to stage a comeback.

in 8v8 if you were down by a similar percentage, say 2v4 or 3v6, with some smart tactics you could draw out the team and engage them on a duel, hide and evade, or win via caps because there was space and less mechs to do such things.

[aniviron]

CyclonerM, on 07 August 2013 - 09:39 AM, said:

I am not the first to suggest this,but forgive me if i do it again: the solution to all Pug problems is ..Joining a group! Faction unit, Clan or Merc Corp.. Your game will be better in many ways and there will be more fun

It sounds nice, but it's not really practical to get every single person who plays the game hooked up with a few people online who they can get to know over another program they have to download in addition to the one they already have. It's also not practical to require everyone to be able to assemble a team every time they want to play- I get off work at midnight my time, and really, there's nobody on for me to play then, and I only have time for a few quick games anyway. By the time I'd be able to get a few people together, the time I had to play would be over.

This game NEEDS solo drops. Dropping in groups is fun, but it's not practical for all players all of the time.

[Rovertoo]

I like to think I make a difference. My Jenner and I rock it on Terra Therma, I've knocked out one third of the enemy team single handedly! Two Atlai (Atlases, Atlasians), a poor, very legged Cataphract, and a Jagermech.

I almost never group play (unless you count playing with your 10 year old brother) and I more often than not can really see the tide of a battle change depending on the performance of myself (and, presumably, my fellow Pugs).

If anything, 12v12 has improved pugging, because it is less of a death sentence for your team if someone dies or tries to flank the baddies. I love 12v12 (and Terra Therma, now that they fixed the capping problems)!

[Thariel]

0okami, on 07 August 2013 - 06:28 AM, said:

Single player pugging was dead when they put in ELO.

Simply since a good player will now have a clueless n00b around his ankle whenever he drops.
He will also most likely face two average players so his n00b will die quickly and then he will be outnumbered.

ELO sure is making this game fun to play from a SP PUG point of view...

ELO is crap, yes.
I get a dumb team, all of them get killed instantly without even firing back.
I play brilliant, fighting 1 vs 12. I manage to kill 11 on my own but the 12th is too much. So I die, the battle is lost.

And my ELO .. goes down, cause the game was lost.

This means, my individual performance counts nothing, I can play bad as sh*t and if my team somehow wins, I get ranked higher and am regarded a better Mechwarrior..

I know this is a team game, but the team is made up by individuals. Or would you think it a good idea for the Pens to swap Sindy Crosby for a 99year old Parkinson-patient with alzheimer who is deaf and blind?
And even is the Pens lose, Sindy is rated higher when he played good, no matter of the team outcome.

[RF Greywolf]

Depending on how the computer predicted the match, your Elo may go up EVEN if you lose. I have played in a couple games with this Elo system in it and I still have problems deciphering it. If your team is predicted to lose then even when you lose you gain Elo, it's only if you were predicted to win does your Elo drop with a loss.

Back on the PUG topic...

I don't believe it's dead at all, it just takes a bit of adjustment to accomplish the task at hand. You need to pay very close attention to your allies and where they are going. AWARENESS is the most important thing to a PUG, knowing what is happening and what you need to do in the role that you have chosen. Once weight limits are introduced then this becomes even more important, even though I see a lot of fights happening because everyone wants to pilot the assaults.

[travelbug]

Rovertoo, on 08 August 2013 - 03:49 AM, said:

I like to think I make a difference. My Jenner and I rock it on Terra Therma, I've knocked out one third of the enemy team single handedly! Two Atlai (Atlases, Atlasians), a poor, very legged Cataphract, and a Jagermech.

I almost never group play (unless you count playing with your 10 year old brother) and I more often than not can really see the tide of a battle change depending on the performance of myself (and, presumably, my fellow Pugs).

If anything, 12v12 has improved pugging, because it is less of a death sentence for your team if someone dies or tries to flank the baddies. I love 12v12 (and Terra Therma, now that they fixed the capping problems)!

Wow good on you mate!

But one thing I noticed is that while v8 was the age of the assault, v12 is the age of the light.

When I see a lance of Atlai bearing down, I can already see my damage stats inflating. When I see a lance of lights heading my way, I know it's gonna be a very tough match.

[WVAnonymous]

travelbug, on 08 August 2013 - 05:23 AM, said:

Wow good on you mate!

But one thing I noticed is that while v8 was the age of the assault, v12 is the age of the light.

When I see a lance of Atlai bearing down, I can already see my damage stats inflating. When I see a lance of lights heading my way, I know it's gonna be a very tough match.

I have parked my Atlas and dusted off my Hunchbacks. My average weight played just went way down (or should I say speed played went way up). If you can't go at least 65 kph, you're never going to see any action until those 3 lights come through and splat you. Pug weight classes have to have dropped dramatically.

Travelbug mentioned that the Atlases main advantage now is to ramp up damage scores for their killers, but I think it returns the Atlas to proper military usage. It is a battleship, and it requires destroyers to keep off fast boats to enable all the big guns to work their magic. I won't try pugging an Atlas for several months until the pug community starts naturally protecting their own slow boats.

Edited by WVAnonymous, 08 August 2013 - 12:16 PM.

[Enigmos]

Eisenhorne, on 07 August 2013 - 06:30 AM, said:

Over 22 games yesterday, I have a 40% win rate, with a 4.25 K/D.

One player can't make a difference... no matter how many mechs I kill my teammates all rambo out into the open and get instantly cut down.

Having a K/D ratio higher than your win ratio is odd. You are either being capped too often or you are playing conquest in very slow assaults.

Every player on the team makes a difference.

[Padic]

OriginalTibs, on 08 August 2013 - 12:58 PM, said:

Having a K/D ratio higher than your win ratio is odd.

Wait. Why is that odd? Seems to me that in each match, there's 12 (8 previously) chances to get a kill, but only 1 chance to get a win, and every match needs to end with either a win or a loss, but not every match needs to end in your death... Shouldn't that imply that you K/D be higher than your W/L for almost everyone?

[LordKnightFandragon]

Damage in this game makes no sense to me. I fire tons of rounds, usually from close but never seems to affect much.

I even took a awesome and was blasting dual ppcs from beyond the 90m and still nothing. Yet i died pdq.

I want to like this game but it makes little sense to me. And yeah winning is a joke. Trial mechs suck.


Is 5million credits enough to out fit an awesome decently?

I might mc a awesome.

There any combined energy/cannon variant awesomes in game?

2 ppc
1 srm6

Max armor avg speed

Can i do it with 5million?

I cant take another game in a trial.

[Tesunie]

LordKnightFandragon, on 08 August 2013 - 04:54 PM, said:

Damage in this game makes no sense to me. I fire tons of rounds, usually from close but never seems to affect much.

I even took a awesome and was blasting dual ppcs from beyond the 90m and still nothing. Yet i died pdq.

I want to like this game but it makes little sense to me. And yeah winning is a joke. Trial mechs suck.


Is 5million credits enough to out fit an awesome decently?

I might mc a awesome.

There any combined energy/cannon variant awesomes in game?

2 ppc
1 srm6

Max armor avg speed

Can i do it with 5million?

I cant take another game in a trial.

An Awesome I believe will cost you more than the 5 million. However, if you are talking about just modding the Awesome to improve it, buy DHS, remove (and maybe sell a PPC) and buy heat sinks as needed. Keep a default engine in it (as long as it isn't XL in my opinion), you should be able to get something decent up for 5 million I would guess.

Personally, I'd keep playing with Trials till you have enough to buy the mech you want. If you just started, you have the Cadet bonus still coming in. I also would probably start in one of the Hunchbacks (that's what I did). They are cheaper to buy initially, and they are fairly nice (depending upon how you set them up). Then again, if you are heart set on that Awesome (a mech I've been eyeballing myself), then I'd just save for that.

[LordKnightFandragon]

I want a dang zeus. But thats not in game. And cant we mc mechs? I thought i saw mc prices beside all mech prices. As for me and a medium...i dont fit med playstyle.

[Rushin Roulette]

I actually disacgree with the statement in the OP.

In 8v8 a 4 player team could easily cover for the shortcommings of bad players as they still compromised 50% of the team. In 12 v 12, this 4 player team is not able to carry bad players any more because it is always possible that 2/3 of the team could theoretically be compromised of bad players (not saying this is always so or that the 4 player teams are better than PUG players... its just theoretical).

[Nebelfeuer]

Found the PUG matches feel actually to be more balanced since 12vs12. Maybe it it only that there is a higher chance of someone firing at the same targets as are you or mark for them or that sticking with the herd is more attractive with masses gahered or the chances to get at least some players that know how to use the R key (read know can execute basic mechpiloting) is bigger with more people assembled - who knows?
So my straight aswmer to the OP is:NO!

Concerning the ELO discussion of earlyer:
Who cares how excactly this thing works if it is obvious that the limiting factor to a functunal matchmaking system will always be the number of players active in the searchqueue at the same time as you?
True, giving new players an average score seems equally "helpful" as rewarding individual scores for premades rofelstomping PUGs and using that score to predict a players skill in solodrops and there surely would be better approaches to get balanced matches but that does not change the fact that the main problem is the availbility of players in the searchqueue. The result is what we currently have: Teamsetups with pilots ranging from steeringwheelusers to elite in a single match.
Personally i´d say a matchmaking that balances around expirience (matches played) rather then "skill" determined by wiins would result in more interesting matches on average but even that would have to cope with the problem described above.

[travelbug]

WVAnonymous, on 08 August 2013 - 12:15 PM, said:

I have parked my Atlas and dusted off my Hunchbacks. My average weight played just went way down (or should I say speed played went way up). If you can't go at least 65 kph, you're never going to see any action until those 3 lights come through and splat you. Pug weight classes have to have dropped dramatically.

Travelbug mentioned that the Atlases main advantage now is to ramp up damage scores for their killers, but I think it returns the Atlas to proper military usage. It is a battleship, and it requires destroyers to keep off fast boats to enable all the big guns to work their magic. I won't try pugging an Atlas for several months until the pug community starts naturally protecting their own slow boats.

actually, atlai/assault class support was indeed more prevalent in v8. a team of two or three atlai could tactically soak up the damage for the whole team, and in turn the team provided fire support. it was a beautiful, synergistic and intuitive system that almost everybody picked up on.

the case isnt true for v12 because in this high alpha, overpopulated game style, 3-5 atlai cannot soak up the damage for the whole team, thus the synergy fails. this is especially hard on the solo pugger atlas whos immediate priority should be to pair up with other assaults.

Rushin Roulette, on 09 August 2013 - 01:12 AM, said:

I actually disacgree with the statement in the OP.

In 8v8 a 4 player team could easily cover for the shortcommings of bad players as they still compromised 50% of the team. In 12 v 12, this 4 player team is not able to carry bad players any more because it is always possible that 2/3 of the team could theoretically be compromised of bad players (not saying this is always so or that the 4 player teams are better than PUG players... its just theoretical).

your statement seems very much in line with mine in that individual players or a lance of players had more of an effect during v8 than v12. my personal observation has been thatin v12, the outcome (but not particularly your score which can still be influenced by your skill) is very much a function of team composition rather than how well you played. so yes, cr#pshoot.

Edited by travelbug, 09 August 2013 - 03:18 AM.

[Goldhawk]

Single Player Pugging is not dead. Careful team play is now a mandatory thing. There is no more, OH NO, some Boom Jager or other mech has flanked us and it tearing us to pieces! People are starting to think tactically and communicate more, (At least in the games I have been in), and not Rambo over the ridge. Best tips for Pugging

1) When you see the enemy, estimate double their number is in that location. Many people do not wander off solo anymore, but if you see a solo mech, obliterate it WITH YOUR TEAM. Not alone, not, "I got this", hang with a buddy.

2) On Arctic Valley it is a beautiful and awesome view to run to the top of the ridge and exclaim, "I'm king of the world!". (Quote from Titanic). Nowadays, you will be dead by the preposition in that sentence.

3) Communicate. Since we are playing a game on a computer, those little letters on the keyboard are not just for moving your mech, they can also write words... (Whooooooaaaaa) Words that tell your teammates a probable location of the enemy so they don't get slammed from the side from an enemy lance. The team should never find out the location of the enemy mechs by your mech going silent or exploding violently.
Lastly, when people discover their keyboard AFTER death to indicate location of the enemy, it's annoying. It takes 1 second to write a grid number.

4) finally my acronym for making this easy.

A) Assess the battle where you will be the most useful.
T) Tactically engage and disengage from enemies.
L) Lose your ideas of being a hero that wipes out the entire enemy team.
A) Always communicate with your teammates.
S) Study and learn from your mistakes, they will help your survive in the future.

Edited by Goldhawk, 09 August 2013 - 03:51 AM.