60 replies to this topic

[Lootee]

shortpainter, on 15 August 2013 - 02:57 PM, said:

The table top minumum range simply means it is harder to aim up close. Like if you got in a fight in a phone booth, would you want a spear or a dagger? In a way, the spear has a minimum range.

Minimum range in table top had nothing to do with damage potential, it was just about using the right weapon for the proper range. PPC in table top still did 10 damage at zero range, unlike MWO.

Yup, try explaining that to all these chuckleheads that think minimum range has something to do with 0 damage though.

It was entirely possible to hit an enemy mech with a LRM20 in an adjacent hex in TT and have it do full damage. +6 penalty to hit at point blank range, if the enemy is shut down -4 bonus to hit, and prone -2 bonus to hit, it completely cancels out the minimum range penalty. You would easily hit the enemy mech and do the appropriate amount of damage for your sized launcher.

Minimum range means different things for different weapons: field inhibitor, LRM arcing trajectory, size/weight/specialized aiming system for gauss rifles, whatever. Only in PGI's world where taking the path of least resistance (whatever only takes 20 minutes to code) is the only way to portray minimum range = 0 damage.

Edited by PanchoTortilla, 15 August 2013 - 03:11 PM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Khobai, on 15 August 2013 - 02:33 PM, said:

IMO customization ruins battletech. Part of the fun of battletech was in getting stuck with random stock mechs and having to make do the best you could with them. Even if they were AC/2 Jagers with paperthin armor.

Like a Vulcan? I terrorized a group once with one. First round of combat I shot a Firebee in the CT. Through armor crit for 2 engine hits. 10 single sinks don't handle that well. The player ran into the water to escape only to suffer hull breach, flooded the engine.

[Fabe]

Cpt Leprechaun, on 15 August 2013 - 01:45 PM, said:

LoL at this. you do realize they never listened to anything we said in the first place right? or even listen to anyone currently? THEY are on an island.

So are many of the players as far as I'm concerned,we need to get everyone back on the mainland.

[OneEyed Jack]

Khobai, on 15 August 2013 - 02:04 PM, said:

The canon reason the gauss rifle has a minimum range is because it was designed to be a sniper weapon and its targeting systems arnt designed to shoot at things close up.

Its no different from playing an FPS with a zoomed in sniper rifle and trying to beat someone with a shotgun at pointblank range.

Um.... no.

Gauss min in TT is because they're big and bulky and difficult to track a moving target at close range. Thye use the same targeting systems as everything else and....
GIANT WALKING TANKS ARE NOT SNIPERS AND DON'T CARRY SNIPER WEAPONS.

[Thunder Lips Express]

why does it matter? how often do you brawl with a gauss?

[Khobai]

Quote

Gauss min in TT is because they're big and bulky and difficult to track a moving target at close range. Thye use the same targeting systems as everything else and....

um no. AC/20s are just as big and bulkier and have no problems tracking a target at close range. Im reading the book right now and it says the reason gauss has a minimum range is because it was designed as a sniper weapon and its targetting systems arnt meant to target things up close.

[Joseph Mallan]

Ecliptor, on 15 August 2013 - 03:19 PM, said:

why does it matter? how often do you brawl with a gauss?

Every drop in my D-DC.

[FupDup]

OneEyed Jack, on 15 August 2013 - 03:17 PM, said:

GIANT WALKING TANKS ARE NOT SNIPERS AND DON'T CARRY SNIPER WEAPONS.

Let's take a look at the Classic Battletech introductory rulebook (start at the bottom of the left column):



A sniper is anything built for long range that tends to suck at close range. It doesn't have to be literally carrying a man-portable sniper rifle to be classified as a sniper.

Edited by FupDup, 15 August 2013 - 03:28 PM.

[LauLiao]

My take on it is this: Minimum range in TT was a to-hit modifier. With something like the Gauss rifle, in my head it was always explained as "the weight and size of the weapon make it hard to move it quickly, thus at longer ranges where a small adustment to the weapon=a larger adjustment to the trajectory it's actually easier to hit something."

Since the Miniumum range in MWO affects damage instead of your ability to hit, then the above logic doesn't really work.

[Fabe]

LauLiao, on 15 August 2013 - 03:26 PM, said:

My take on it is this: Minimum range in TT was a to-hit modifier. With something like the Gauss rifle, in my head it was always explained as "the weight and size of the weapon make it hard to move it quickly, thus at longer ranges where a small adustment to the weapon=a larger adjustment to the trajectory it's actually easier to hit something."

Since the Miniumum range in MWO affects damage instead of your ability to hit, then the above logic doesn't really work.

For ballistic weapons that makes a lot of sense,not sure how that could be translated over to the the game but it still makes sense.

[Antagonist]

There's also the small fact the minimum range of the GR had a different impact on gameplay.

Whereas the PPC had to roll an explosion check, the GR had a +1/+2 modifier on its to-hit number.

[Joseph Mallan]

Antagonist, on 15 August 2013 - 03:59 PM, said:

There's also the small fact the minimum range of the GR had a different impact on gameplay.

Whereas the PPC had to roll an explosion check, the GR had a +1/+2 modifier on its to-hit number.

Say What??? Page and tome reference please?

[Nothing Whatsoever]

I thought the min range on a Gauss was to prevent damage to the shooter?

I need to look to see where I got that idea.

[Fabe]

Praetor Shepard, on 15 August 2013 - 04:06 PM, said:

I thought the min range on a Gauss was to prevent damage to the shooter?

I need to look to see where I got that idea.

I think you might be thinking of the PPC


From Sarna Net

Quote

PPCs are equipped with a Field Inhibitor to prevent feedback which could damage the firing unit's electronic systems.^[6] This inhibitor degrades the performance of the weapon at close ranges of less than 90 meters. Particularly daring warriors have been known to disengage the inhibitor and risk damage to their own machine when a target is at close range.

[Carrioncrows]

gah...now i want a Panther and a Vindicator. I do so love the Vindicator.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

No not PPC.

Fluff for Ballistics, still looking. And AC projectiles are HEAP (High-Explosive Armor-Piercing), so a min range is plausible for them.

Gauss could have a concern with firing too close to a target will damage the shooter from possibly heat, shrapnel and anything else coming off of the enemy mech.

[Joseph Mallan]

Both very good Mechs I must say.

[Fabe]

Praetor Shepard, on 15 August 2013 - 04:41 PM, said:

No not PPC.

Fluff for Ballistics, still looking. And AC projectiles are HEAP (High-Explosive Armor-Piercing), so a min range is plausible for them.

Gauss could have a concern with firing too close to a target will damage the shooter from possibly heat, shrapnel and anything else coming off of the enemy mech.

OH OK,I don't ever recall seeing a fluff reason for the min range so it might just be a pure game balance irule with no in universe explanation

Edited by Fabe, 15 August 2013 - 04:45 PM.

[Thuzel]

I love people trying to justify the decision through "physics" in a sci-fi game based over a thousand years in the future.

It's all fictional. All of it. And quite a lot of it is blatantly self-inconsistent.

The truth is that PGI selectively ignored quite a few balancing elements. Why? Because they wouldn't understand balanced gameplay if it bit them on the butt.

Edited by Thuzel, 15 August 2013 - 08:17 PM.

[Theodor Kling]

I think they ignored it because in their "min range= no dmg" world it does not make sense for ballistic weapons to have a min range. Like a few people already said: Bare for the PPC it was originally a to hit modifier for long range weapons..explained by targeting system problem, and reasonable for balance.
Which can be translated into MWo where everything hast a very loreunfriendly perfect accuracy and instant conergence.


@FupDup: Pah Panther, Jäger... I want a Holländer.