1555 replies to this topic

[Texas Merc]

Cimarb, on 20 October 2013 - 03:23 PM, said:

Lol, what the heck is a window licker?....

Its an insult and against the CoC but whatever.

[Nekki Basara]

It's the French idiom for window-shopping. I have no idea why he keeps using it. I think he thinks it makes him look smart or something?

[Wintersdark]

Chronojam, on 20 October 2013 - 02:02 PM, said:

This is absurd. Companies publish subscriber and current-player counts all the time. MWO used to.

Not at all absurd. MWO did in closed beta and right at the beginning of open beta, but only really early on when such numbers weren't relevant yet from a business standpoint.

Anyways, you totally missed my point. There are reasons to release and not to release that information, but because there are no real consequences to not releasing it and potential consequences to releasing it, it's not unusual for companies who are not the market leaders (remember: niche game, simply won't be a market leader) to keep this information closed. Once it's released, it's released and you have to deal with the consequences.

They elect to not, and the vast majority of people aren't going to think twice about it because they really don't care. And of those who do care? Yourself? I imagine you'd take whatever numbers PGI released and just use it in a "MWO IS FAILING" crusade anyways. Why would they subject themselves to that, just to satisfy some random guy's curiosity?

[Nekki Basara]

The reasons for not releasing such information are generally to avoid confirmation of negative suspicions or the raising thereof. The obvious thing to point out here is, they WERE released, and then far before they were relevant they vanished. That also raises suspicions. Better never to have it than to take it away.

[Vaderman]

Cimarb, on 20 October 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:

Reading this thread is like having an argument about politics: neither side is going to compromise, and no matter what is tauted as fact, both sides will stonewall until one gets tired of arguing - then the side that held their breath the longest will declare themselves the winner.

That being said, I am proud to support this game. I don't particularly care for most of the new mechs, since they seem very energy heavy (and ghost heat does suck), but I am still having a lot of fun playing them and having something new to work towards.

Wintersdark, Vaderman, Heffay, etc.: keep up the good fight and don't let the candle blowers win!

Honestly this isn't really an argument or even really much of a discussion.

There is a subset of players who, ironically, play the game but continuously point to their flavor of the month reason that the game is failing. There is no point to this as Winterdark has pointed out, as either A) They are wrong or They are right and hasten the demise of the game which is in no one's best interest.

Well, except for the kind of people in the world that love to drag things down into the muck where they currently reside. Misery (not the mech!) loves company and all that jazz.

Many of them haven't sunk a dime into this game, so their opinion is of no consequence in my opinion. Kinda like a remora complaining about what the shark they're attached to had for lunch.

The internet is full of people like that, on every forum, of every game.

They decried the "HUGE REFUND OF OVERLORD" packages, only to be wrong. They decry the shadowhawk and how it's extra height makes it a useless mech, only to be wrong.

They give nothing back, they contribute nothing, they offer no alternatives or positive suggestions, they only complain.

They will use any example, no matter how they have to twist it, to make something look bad or wrong. These are the kind of people that this game (and the world) doesn't need.

[Deathlike]

Vaderman, on 20 October 2013 - 04:25 PM, said:

Honestly this isn't really an argument or even really much of a discussion.

There is a subset of players who, ironically, play the game but continuously point to their flavor of the month reason that the game is failing. There is no point to this as Winterdark has pointed out, as either A) They are wrong or They are right and hasten the demise of the game which is in no one's best interest.

Well, except for the kind of people in the world that love to drag things down into the muck where they currently reside. Misery (not the mech!) loves company and all that jazz.

Many of them haven't sunk a dime into this game, so their opinion is of no consequence in my opinion. Kinda like a remora complaining about what the shark they're attached to had for lunch.

The internet is full of people like that, on every forum, of every game.

They decried the "HUGE REFUND OF OVERLORD" packages, only to be wrong. They decry the shadowhawk and how it's extra height makes it a useless mech, only to be wrong.

They give nothing back, they contribute nothing, they offer no alternatives or positive suggestions, they only complain.

They will use any example, no matter how they have to twist it, to make something look bad or wrong. These are the kind of people that this game (and the world) doesn't need.

Just so you know, being a "yes-man" to everything PGI or any company while still making mistakes doesn't mean it'll survive long. Even successful companies can fail due to overconfidence and delays. There are plenty of examples of that in the industry.

There will always people that try to at least question whether the decision is good or bad... and usually are classified as "nay sayers". The primary intent is not to be a "negative Nancy" but rather question at least consider all other possible options of the decision that is to be made. People that disagree do want the company to succeed.

It is obviously up to the company to decide what is best for the future of the company and its customers. Every decision should always be looked it from all angles, and no stone should stay unturned. Thinking that there's only one way to do things can be a recipe for failure.

Edited by Deathlike, 20 October 2013 - 04:45 PM.

[Rasako]

intriguing

[Vaderman]

Deathlike, on 20 October 2013 - 04:37 PM, said:

Just so you know, being a "yes-man" to everything PGI or any company while still making mistakes doesn't mean it'll survive long. Even successful companies can fail due to overconfidence and delays. There are plenty of examples of that in the industry.

There will always people that try to at least question whether the decision is good or bad... and usually are classified as "nay sayers". The primary intent is not to be a "negative Nancy" but rather question at least consider all other possible options of the decision that is to be made. People that disagree do want the company to succeed.

It is obviously up to the company to decide what is best for the future of the company and its customers. Every decision should always be looked it from all angles, and no stone should stay unturned. Thinking that there's only one way to do things can be a recipe for failure.

Not sure I've seen anyone on here with the stance that they will follow PGI "no matter what". Then again I spend more time playing than posting on the forums, although I do tend to read quite a few posts.

I have no problem with people questioning decisions, and as I've stated some of the things PGI have/have not done did not sit well with me either.

However, theres a big difference between questioning decisions and going on crusades. Trying to spread rumors of massive Phoenix refunds (wrong), trying to say certain mechs are junk without even trying them (wrong), and suggesting that if a company doesn't post population statistics there must be a conspiracy in there somewhere.

None of these examples do ANYTHING for this game, and are pure troll moves.

[Nekki Basara]

Vaderman, on 20 October 2013 - 07:13 PM, said:

Not sure I've seen anyone on here with the stance that they will follow PGI "no matter what".

See that red star under your founders tag?

[Vaderman]

Nekki Basara, on 20 October 2013 - 07:19 PM, said:

See that red star under your founders tag?

No...oh wait yes there it is.

Unlike you, I put my money where my mouth is.

Next question.

[Nekki Basara]

Vaderman, on 20 October 2013 - 07:27 PM, said:

Unlike you, I put my money where my mouth is.

I've been saying this game isn't worth my money as a long-time Battletech fan for a while, but still bought Sarah's Jenner because **** cancer. Instead I gave my remaining funbux to the fine people over at Ral Partha UK and built a lance of WoL-favourite mechs. I'm pretty sure they're in the same place.

[Vaderman]

Nekki Basara, on 20 October 2013 - 07:42 PM, said:

I've been saying this game isn't worth my money as a long-time Battletech fan for a while, but still bought Sarah's Jenner because **** cancer. Instead I gave my remaining funbux to the fine people over at Ral Partha UK and built a lance of WoL-favourite mechs. I'm pretty sure they're in the same place.

Well we agree on something at least, I got Sarah's Jenner as well. I have a daughter myself and cannot imagine the pain of her family.

Almost 700 posts about a game you don't think is worth money is a large investment of your time and I have to wonder why.

If you spend time playing the game, and posting about it, it stands to reason that it is worth your money.

It's one thing to spend money on something and complain, it's something else to contribute nothing to its success and complain about it anyway.

[Chronojam]

Vaderman, on 20 October 2013 - 02:49 PM, said:

Based on what, your opinion or your coding skills?

If you can program go apply and show em how it's done bro.

It's funny how people who contribute the least to any subject always complain the most about it.

If you're constantly missing deadlines either your management can't manage or your developers can't develop, barring some natural disaster interfering with the whole process. I've seen a few people suggest that we still don't have community warfare, directx11, or weapon balance due to "fan negativity" which is a creative excuse but I'd suggest it's not the fans who are running the show.

Vaderman, on 20 October 2013 - 02:49 PM, said:

If you can program go apply and show em how it's done bro.

Don't need to be a doctor to complain they're performing an appendectomy when you were in with a hurt foot, and you don't need to be a director to realize Grown Ups 2 was a piece of {Scrap}. Think about it.

[Vaderman]

Chronojam, on 20 October 2013 - 10:48 PM, said:

If you're constantly missing deadlines either your management can't manage or your developers can't develop, barring some natural disaster interfering with the whole process. I've seen a few people suggest that we still don't have community warfare, directx11, or weapon balance due to "fan negativity" which is a creative excuse but I'd suggest it's not the fans who are running the show.

Don't need to be a doctor to complain they're performing an appendectomy when you were in with a hurt foot, and you don't need to be a director to realize Grown Ups 2 was a piece of {Scrap}. Think about it.

You missed the part I was referring to, where the poster called the devs incompetent and lazy.

If that were true we wouldn't have a battletech game at all, and certainly wouldn't have Reseen mechs.

Also what deadlines are you referring to? Are you part of the in-house development team?

Do you think the devs don't know UI2.0 (you forgot that one), CW and dx11 aren't in yet?

This game is a work in progress, and every game of it's type have people on the forums howling for blood because of some "feature" they demand now. It'll be done when it's done, all the finger pointing and jumping up and down and holding your breath won't change that. Weapon balance imo is pretty good right now.

They just gave us a list of upcoming updates and where they are in the development schedule.

Either the game is fun for you or it's not, I took a break myself during the "LRM's blotting out the sun" period. Play it how it is or don't play, the choice is that simple.

[Geek Verve]

Cimarb, on 20 October 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:

Reading this thread is like having an argument about politics: neither side is going to compromise, and no matter what is tauted as fact, both sides will stonewall until one gets tired of arguing - then the side that held their breath the longest will declare themselves the winner.

Except the fact that it's not even a contest. I've played a *lot* of online games, and one thing that is always, *always* certain is the fact that the vast majority of players who are fine with the way the game is run never bother participating in such discussions. However, those furious few who can't abide by the current state of the game all want to carry out a riot. For every one malcontent spouting vitriol, you will likely find a hundred or more players who are happily playing the game, the only evidence of their approval being the numbers of people logging in regularly to play.

PGI sees this. If those numbers were indicative of the number of people who weren't happy with the game in its current state, or their performance from a development perspective, you can be sure we would see appropriate changes. It's not rocket science, especially in a F2P model.

Cimarb, on 20 October 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:

That being said, I am proud to support this game. I don't particularly care for most of the new mechs, since they seem very energy heavy (and ghost heat does suck), but I am still having a lot of fun playing them and having something new to work towards.

I completely agree. It's pretty common for hero mechs to provide something unique to a chassis line without being the most capable. I was happy to throw some cash their way. The game looks fantastic, and I've been having a blast playing it for weeks, now. When I start getting the stink eye from the wife for the amount of time I spend playing a particular game, I know it's a winner.

Wintersdark, on 20 October 2013 - 04:11 PM, said:

They elect to not [release player statistics], and the vast majority of people aren't going to think twice about it because they really don't care. And of those who do care? Yourself? I imagine you'd take whatever numbers PGI released and just use it in a "MWO IS FAILING" crusade anyways. Why would they subject themselves to that, just to satisfy some random guy's curiosity?

Sad but so true. The only time the player population matters at all is when it directly affects your ability to play the game as designed, as in with many of the MMORPG's. I could care less how many people are playing MWO, as long as there are 23 others around to drop with when I log on. When that ceases to be the case, then they'll have an argument.

Vaderman, on 20 October 2013 - 04:25 PM, said:

Honestly this isn't really an argument or even really much of a discussion.

There is a subset of players who, ironically, play the game but continuously point to their flavor of the month reason that the game is failing. There is no point to this as Winterdark has pointed out, as either A) They are wrong or They are right and hasten the demise of the game which is in no one's best interest.

Well, except for the kind of people in the world that love to drag things down into the muck where they currently reside. Misery (not the mech!) loves company and all that jazz.

Many of them haven't sunk a dime into this game, so their opinion is of no consequence in my opinion. Kinda like a remora complaining about what the shark they're attached to had for lunch.

Exactly. It's almost comical, really.

Vaderman, on 21 October 2013 - 05:35 AM, said:

Either the game is fun for you or it's not, I took a break myself during the "LRM's blotting out the sun" period. Play it how it is or don't play, the choice is that simple.

How dare you try to inject logic into this discussion! Begone, foul demon of reason!

Edited by Geek Verve, 21 October 2013 - 06:15 AM.

[Gargoth]

Devs: Hey, this is your friendly project phoenix loyalty update!

....after tens of pages of discussion...



Aaaaand now again we are smacktalking about devs, or how this game is being made.
GG-NOT-SO-CLOSE forumwarriors.

Edited by Gargoth, 21 October 2013 - 06:19 AM.

[Nekki Basara]

Vaderman, on 20 October 2013 - 08:24 PM, said:

Well we agree on something at least, I got Sarah's Jenner as well. I have a daughter myself and cannot imagine the pain of her family.

Almost 700 posts about a game you don't think is worth money is a large investment of your time and I have to wonder why.

If you spend time playing the game, and posting about it, it stands to reason that it is worth your money.

It's one thing to spend money on something and complain, it's something else to contribute nothing to its success and complain about it anyway.

I think you and I have a very different definition of "stands to reason". Playing a free to play game might be worth the money you spend on it, but that money could be zero. Posting is as natural as breathing at this point, I grew up on these here internets.I presume you are measuring contribution in pure financial terms and not accounting for any of the beta testing or provision of content for whales such as yourself?

[C E Dwyer]

Nekki Basara, on 16 October 2013 - 11:07 AM, said:

What's a "war mongler"?

A mad max character that didn't make the cut to the movies

A person that Mongle's in time of conflict

[C E Dwyer]

Reading this thread is like attaching weights to your soft places and then going for a bike ride on the roughest piece of track you can find.

Its crazy, its going to hurt, but once the idea's in your head there is a dangerous possibility, that you might agree with the vioces telling you to try it as its a one off experience you'll probably never want to try again..here this bottle of rum might help you, to deside its a good idea..

[C E Dwyer]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 20 October 2013 - 12:16 PM, said:

Website traffic numbers and PGI admitting at LEAST half of the Founders stopped playing before release.

I'm also basing it on the glaring lack of coverage from gaming sites. And the coverage they did get, they did not have one article that you could really consider being an endorsement of the game.

Actually they said over 50% of founders still log on at least once a month, while this is extremely suspect in my view because its not telling us how many log on at least once a week, which would be far more acurate, and as many point out it could just be they log on after each patch and go nope..not for me...

its stil more accurate than the numbers the nay sayers are pulling out to justify their contempt at pgi, and a rather crass selfish attitude in the hopes this game fails, spoilling things for those that still play and pay to keep it running.

Ohh I'll put my hand up and say I find the development of this game disgracefully slow, and I've thought about quitting putting my money away, all the above, but I won't pull bull shine out the air to try and prove myself right.

I'm also pretty disgusted at those that want this game to fail, out of spite, putting engineers out of work who have nothing to do with the direction this games going, some will find work again, but pgi on your Cv isn't going to be a plus if this company does bomb

Those that don't play and keep preaching the fail mantra, on these boards, in the hopes of gaining more acolytes, just walk away, your just making yourselves look childish and stupid

Edited by Cathy, 21 October 2013 - 07:10 AM.