233 replies to this topic

[Stoicblitzer]

Joseph Mallan, on 23 September 2013 - 06:16 AM, said:

So they will work as intended. Its the way players will not follow lore that will break the Clans in MWO.

it's a competitive game. not our job to "follow lore." pgi's job to balance game the best they can.

[Jakob Knight]

/sarcasm on

Not to worry. In their great understanding of the need to balance lore and video game mechanics, PGI has a plan in mind that will satisfy the need to keep Clantech out of Inner Sphere nations' hands, and still keep their pledge that all technology and mechs in the game will be available to all players....

Pilots who align with an Inner Sphere nation gain bonus credit towards loyalty with that nation, and discounts on the costs of battlemechs favored/manufactured by that nation. As no Inner Sphere nation manufactures Clan mechs, no IS nation pilot may use them.

Pilots who align with a Clan faction gain credit towards loyalty with that Clan and discounts on the cost of Clan items favored/manufactured by that Clan. As no Clan manufactures Inner Sphere mechs, no Clan pilot may use any Inner Sphere item/mech.

Pilots who align with a Mercenary faction do not gain loyalty discounts on any items, but have access to both Clan and Inner Sphere items/mech as befits warriors who are neither Inner Sphere or Clan but who may be agents of either.

In this way, no 'Inner Sphere' pilot will get to use Clantech, and no 'Clan' pilot will get to use Inner Sphere tech, yet all technology is still 'available' to all players, as long as they choose to fight as Mercenaries. See how easy it is to keep lore and the promises made?


/sarcasm off

Okay...maybe they will just mess up the whole thing anyway.

Edited by Jakob Knight, 23 September 2013 - 08:45 AM.

[Guido]

Jakob Knight, on 23 September 2013 - 08:43 AM, said:

/sarcasm on

Not to worry. In their great understanding of the need to balance lore and video game mechanics, PGI has a plan in mind that will satisfy the need to keep Clantech out of Inner Sphere nations' hands, and still keep their pledge that all technology and mechs in the game will be available to all players....

Pilots who align with an Inner Sphere nation gain bonus credit towards loyalty with that nation, and discounts on the costs of battlemechs favored/manufactured by that nation. As no Inner Sphere nation manufactures Clan mechs, no IS nation pilot may use them.

*snip

I don't know if you were being sarcastic about your second paragraph, but I'll assume not.

No inner sphere faction manufactures clan mechs yet. Free Worlds League manufacture omni mechs after receiving the schematics from the Dragoons and commissions from the Houses to build them. Davion elite units have them and Kurita elite units have them as well. I think that for an IS pilot to gain an omni, they should win them during one of those challenges like assault vs. the world.

[Jakob Knight]

Guido, on 23 September 2013 - 09:05 AM, said:

I don't know if you were being sarcastic about your second paragraph, but I'll assume not.

No inner sphere faction manufactures clan mechs yet. Free Worlds League manufacture omni mechs after receiving the schematics from the Dragoons and commissions from the Houses to build them. Davion elite units have them and Kurita elite units have them as well. I think that for an IS pilot to gain an omni, they should win them during one of those challenges like assault vs. the world.

This is why I used the /sarcasm on, /sarcasm off notations. The simple fact is that the Devs of MWO don't care about lore any more than they need to to sell their product. They are well aware that the people who will jump at using Clantech also have no real regard for lore, and merely want a better gun than everyone else, and that those people will be in the same PUG queues as new players (if they aren't going to split the queues for something as important as 3PV, you can bet they won't do so once they have the players split 6+ ways with CW). Granted, there are those who will stick rigidly to the Clan way, but they will be in the minority compared to those who, as the song goes, have honor and always fight fair, except when they are losing and then they don't care.

The idea of Mercs being the only ones with access to both tech areas, however, does have merit from a gameplay perspective, as the idea of the Merc in MWO is a warrior unaffiliated formally with any faction in the game and able to move between them all. That would include the Clans if they are included in CW. This is also the only way to jive the statement that all tech would be available to all players without regards to faction without simply opening the floodgates and making Clantech general availability items (which is a definite possibility).

Lore-wise, at the current time, the only entities capable of manufacturing Clantech are the Clans and certain Mercenary units. So, by that reasoning, Clan players would again be restricted from using any Inner Sphere items (yes, that would mean any Clan players would permanently lose any and all Inner Sphere units they possess, including Founder's mechs), Inner Sphere players would be restricted from using any Clan mechs (they might get one on the battlefield, but they could not repair or rearm it, so effectively it would be scrap salvage and unusable), and Merc players would be able to use both, but not gain the advantages of being formally part of any faction, and have to obtain their units from their employers.

At the end of the day, though, PGI will institute the Clans as they see fit, and they have already established a track record of not letting lore or common sense dictate what they will put in the game. Be ready for Clantech to be general availablilty, though, as this is the most likely outcome.

Edited by Jakob Knight, 23 September 2013 - 10:52 AM.

[Guido]

I'm not particularly for lore, but I am reading the books and have studied up on the TT a bit for the purposes of having conversations with the people I'm playing a game with. All the Mechwarrior games I've played has allowed cross tech and the ability for IS affiliated pilots to use clan mechs. I stand from that perspective. As such, i agree that PGI will implement the clans however they will.

[CyclonerM]

Guido, on 23 September 2013 - 11:03 AM, said:

I'm not particularly for lore, but I am reading the books and have studied up on the TT a bit for the purposes of having conversations with the people I'm playing a game with. All the Mechwarrior games I've played has allowed cross tech and the ability for IS affiliated pilots to use clan mechs. I stand from that perspective. As such, i agree that PGI will implement the clans however they will.

All the previous MW games in which was possible cross-tech were set later than 3052 i believe

[Toltecher]

CyclonerM, on 23 September 2013 - 11:14 AM, said:

All the previous MW games in which was possible cross-tech were set later than 3052 i believe

MW2: Mercs took place before the Clan Invasion and ended shortly thereafter (at 3052, I think). And cross-tech was possible, though very expensive.

[Guido]

CyclonerM, on 23 September 2013 - 11:14 AM, said:

All the previous MW games in which was possible cross-tech were set later than 3052 i believe

That's where all the action is, before Tukayyid and after the clan brought in the reinforcements and the IS had been given enough breathing room to come up with a way to fight back.

[Jakob Knight]

To be honest, previous MW titles after MW2 only gave lip service to the lore from a mech selection standpoint (though MW3 at least started you off in an IS mech). We saw entire Inner Sphere forces that were packed to the gills with nothing but Clan mechs, with no problems in either pilot familiarity or maintenance (they were even common enough to purchase from the store). I think this set a very bad precedent for any kind of restrictions here (players who are coming from those other titles expect to have their Timberwolfs right alongside their Jagermechs), as well as diluted the uniqueness of the Clans.

Unfortunately, I don't see any way out of the same thing in MWO, as all tech has to be made available to all players, or you end up with favoritism and pay-to-win schemes by allowing some players supertech that others can't match.

We'll just have to see. My gut instinct, though, is that they will simply dump the Clan mechs onto the battlefield and let the bones fall where they may....for a substantial payment of MC, of course.

Edited by Jakob Knight, 24 September 2013 - 08:03 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Magnakanus, on 10 September 2013 - 05:37 AM, said:

I can hear the rants now when masses of jump-snipers run clan mechs and clan PPC/ERPPC's dominating the field and failing to use the clan honor system. Those hoping that ClanTech for MWO will be just as OP as the TT version will must likely be either in the jump-sniper group or the group of those complaining, calling loudest for nerfs.

Introducing ClanTech as superior across the line will kill CW from the start. Who wants to play the under-powered, obsolete IS mechs with IS-Tech when you can dominate with ClanTech. Who will the clans then have to fight? The other clans maybe, but then you can forget replaying "Lore events" entirely. The whole Clan Fanbase assumes that somebody will willingly play inferior mechs just to give them something to destroy. Think again. This game has shown that players will flock to any content that provides a distinct advantage.

MWO must diverge from TT eventually to be successful. You dont have dice and modifiers as balancing factors and you can forget about trying to get people to use the clan honor system that are not fan-atic about Lore.

kinda like they did until Tukayyid.

[Rykiel]

IMO I'm fine w/the Clans' OP weaponry, other things in game can be done to make it tough for them (as others have already said). One thing that I'm not sure was mentioned is that not only should the Clans have weight "penalties" in drops, but, also, their "honor" (aka money) should decrease dramatically if they take heavier and/or more Mechs. So you take 4 Dire Wolves/Daishis against 4 Atlases? Sure, just that no matter how much dmg you do, you barely break even, and even lose quite a bit of "honor". You take 4 Fire Moths/Dashers vs 4 Atlases? You should get quite a bit of "honor" for a win. And if you take 5 Fire Moths/Dashers vs 12 Atlases defending their base on Assault? You are ready to join the likes of Aidan Pryde and have a buttload of "honor" should you win.

And yes, Clans should start 10v12 (10 for them, 12 for IS). But if they take less Mechs, the "honor" amount should scale accordingly -- but, a win is what should get them the vast majority of "honor", a loss with 1 light Clan Mech vs 12 IS Mechs should still be a massive deficit, for the Clanner's bidding skills were poor indeed, lol (aka loss of face/honor/waste of precious Clan resources; even 1 Omni is valuable for the efficient Clans).

The using of support elements like UAV, Coolant Flush, Modules, etc. could also have honor deficits as well. And perhaps the Clans won't have any Pilot Tree unlocks ...

Not sure how this could be all worked out, but that's what I propose. Piloting 10 (rookie pilot) Daishis vs 12 (elite pilot) Atlases should be a massive loss of "honor" on the Clan side regardless of the result; the "victory" would be a heavily tainted one, and a loss would possibly require a Trial of Position and a downgrade to a lower caste. I hear the Sidewalk Cleaner caste is in need of fresh bodies ...

Edited by Rykiel, 27 September 2013 - 03:51 PM.

[Nehkrosis]

This is the only truly decent route they can (should ) take.
Stays true to Canon, is a good balancing system.

Plus its not SUPER lazy like just making Clan Tech the same as IS tech.

Seriously, if that happens im out.


EDIT; making it ABSOLUTELY mandatory to play honourably will keep alot of players away from the Clans, whilst still making it challenging for Clan players.

Scenario;

I drop with my Clan Wolf buddies.

using some kind of Batchall system, we drop with only 4 mechs in our Star, and our Star Commander disabling a pair of ER large Lasers on his Dire Wolf, but gaining a sizable Honour modifier.

the other Star loses the Batchall and consequently still has all its weaponry, and all its mechs. no Honour modifier.

Each and every Clan player has to ability to issues Zellbriggen

"[color=#000000]Each warrior will issue a challenge to a different enemy. If one side outnumbers the other, then the extra warriors on that side will stand aside until one of their comrades falls in battle. A warrior can challenge more than one unit at a time.[/color][color=#000000]Typically the challenge will be made verbally, for example: "I am MechWarrior Franklin of Clan Smoke Jaguar, piloting the lone [/color]Warhawk[color=#000000] in Beta Star. I hereby invoke the ritual of [/color]zellbrigen[color=#000000] and challenge the pilot of the [/color]Atlas[color=#000000] adorned with the unit designation seven to a duel of warriors. In this solemn matter, let no one interfere!"[/color]

if an IS opponent declines the duel, then they are viewed as Dishonorable, and are now free targets.
Firing on these targets dosnt accrue any honour, but it will still get you something like Skill, or some other resource which can be used to Rank you in some way.

Honour rank and skill could all be good ways to limit Clan players ability, and make them play like the Clans
Further, making it impossible to get Omnimechs for dishonurable Clansmen.




Second Edit; make it so Dishonurable Clansmen accrue Dezgra Points for breaking Zellbriggen.
this could work as negative credit for purchasing mechs, commanding stars, or even simply the types of Omnimech you can use, even if owned.

Edited by Nehkrosis, 27 September 2013 - 04:45 PM.

[Rykiel]

Makes sense -- after all, the Clan MechWarriors (as a whole) are pretty heavily outnumbered by the IS MechWarriors (Great House military, mercenary units, rebels, Periphery military, pirates, corporate security). Clan MechWarriors, by and large, are (and should be) considerably above the average IS Mech jock, as the basic tabletop stats for typical MechWarriors of both sides indicate.

[Nehkrosis]

Adding Base defenses or some other kinda of computer controlled units would further help.

I have a really bad sinking feeling that this will NOT be done, and that PGI will just cop right out on it and give us some {Scrap}, like Clans as Skins.

It really is getting so hard to stay optimistic.

[Nehkrosis]

A thought occurs.


Clan Streaks are not going to target CTs.
Balanced.

ER Laser weaponry is going to suffer due to the heat scaling penalties in MWO.
Balanced.

High jam rates for Ultra's?
Sounds like it could be pretty balanced.

in fact, with the obvious inclusion of 10 omni's vs 12 IS variants, how are the clans going to be OP anyway?

[needsLITHIUM]

fenji, on 18 August 2013 - 01:12 AM, said:

Can everyone please stop calling the Timber Wolf a Mad Cat... The Mad Cat name was just because the IS targetting software couldn't recognize the Timber Wolf and would switch back and forth between a Marauder and a Catapult when it was struggling to name it. It is a Timber Wolf, not an IS slang name you Solahma Innies came up with.

Long live the clans!

EDIT: I will be severly dissapointed if they screw up again and call it a Mad Cat in MWO. It has always bothered me.

You dishonor your trothkin with your excessive use of contractions... You dare lower yourself to the mental laziness standards of these freebirth? Perhaps you should reflect upon your heritage, instead of behaving as a surat plebian... If you wish to use such unintelligent patterns of speech, perhaps you should resign yourself to the laborer cast, or go and procreate with some half witted stravag spheroid??

[Julius Septim]

The Clans HAVE to be "Overpoered" or they wouldnt be Clans.. When Pgi want to follow the lore in just an INCH, thats the truth, if not this Game is just a Joke and dont deserve the Battletech Franchise at all...

The IS need 2-3 Months (In Pgi Game Mechanics, cause they can´t follow timeline anyhow) or.. well.. nuff said in the first Place...

Ps: And i dont give a **** about allthose shooter Arcade Kiddies I want the Mechwarrior Game wich was PROMISED!!!!

Edited by The Man of Steel, 29 September 2013 - 05:15 PM.

[Skye Storm]

needsLITHIUM, on 29 September 2013 - 04:58 PM, said:

You dishonor your trothkin with your excessive use of contractions... You dare lower yourself to the mental laziness standards of these freebirth? Perhaps you should reflect upon your heritage, instead of behaving as a surat plebian... If you wish to use such unintelligent patterns of speech, perhaps you should resign yourself to the laborer cast, or go and procreate with some half witted stravag spheroid??

Pure Dedication Good Sir.

[CyclonerM]

needsLITHIUM, on 29 September 2013 - 04:58 PM, said:

You dishonor your trothkin with your excessive use of contractions... You dare lower yourself to the mental laziness standards of these freebirth? Perhaps you should reflect upon your heritage, instead of behaving as a surat plebian... If you wish to use such unintelligent patterns of speech, perhaps you should resign yourself to the laborer cast, or go and procreate with some half witted stravag spheroid??

Excessive use = 1?

And i am sure they will call it Mad Cat.. This game is from a IS point of view and even if the players can join a Clan faction they would not name Omni-mechs in two different ways. (but i would definitely like it!).

Edited by CyclonerM, 30 September 2013 - 04:53 AM.

[42and19]

First thing I am going to do when clan tech comes out is refit my Orion-VA with clan lrms. Know why?
No minimum range.

Yea

NO

MINIMUM

RANGE

You basically have an upgrade to srms that will also lock and track.