1098 replies to this topic

[Blue Footed Booby]

VagGR, on 21 August 2013 - 05:25 AM, said:

this one is even better than the spider (bugged according to PGI) one....who needs a stupid minimap...

This is the part that gets me. Ok, they want to make gameplay accessible. They also didn't want to split the queue, potentially resulting in neither having enough population. Both of these are things I can deal with, even if I don't like it, yet at the same time PGI has the gall to claim that third person confers no advantage, and that it was intended to help new players understand how legs rotate independent from torso. Setting aside the fact that most players would instantly understand what's up with the magic words "it's like a tank turret," the third person mode currently in the game accomplishes neither goal while also hiding the minimap. I get that hiding the map helps balance the increased awareness that comes from the wider FOV etc etc, but it kinda runs against the stated purpose of the mode, since it trains new players not to watch their map (because they don't have one).

I understand that you can't please everyone and tradeoffs must be made, but as it stands PGI is failing badly to accomplish their publicly stated goals in a way that makes them look like liers. Sure it's possible that the right hand and the left need to spend some quality time catching up, but when a profit-seeking entity that has consistently painted itself as a traditional command hierarchy (eg various dev comments about Paul having the final say on matters of design) it smells like dishonesty.

Let me be clear: my objection is not to the third person mode itself or its direct effects on gameplay. Rather, I see their handling of third person as emblematic of the larger responsiveness, transparency, and I'm sorry to say honesty issues that have plagued MWO's development, especially of late. I want very badly for this game to flourish and become a permanent fixture of the FTP community and gaming writ large. I think PGI has it in them to make that happen. This is why I'm so disappointed that they aren't doing so.

Also: how exactly am I supposed to believe that the heat penalties hitting AC2 are a bug related to firing time when, according to all the explanation and charts from Paul, AC2s aren't supposed to be hit by the heat penalties at all? Either some part of the dev team incorrectly thinks AC2s are supposed to be getting penalized, or AC2s are supposed to be penalized and they were completely omitted from all of the effortposts made explaining and defending the heat penalty system. Neither of these possibilities is reassuring.

Edited by Blue Footed Booby, 21 August 2013 - 06:42 AM.

[Zephyr Charge]

101011, on 21 August 2013 - 06:35 AM, said:

Yes, I agree. However, they just forced me to play with a feature I don't like, when they told us VERY SPECIFICALLY that we wouldn't have to! This just goes to show that 3rd person just overall was a horrid idea that has already divided the playerbase.

Its dividing it more NOW:

People who play
People who uninstall and quit

[101011]

Zephyr Charge, on 21 August 2013 - 06:40 AM, said:

Its dividing it more NOW:

People who play
People who uninstall and quit

Entirely correct. PGI....I know you don't have the best PR, but surely even you could have realized how incredibly terrible this idea was.

[AdamBaines]

Zephyr Charge, on 21 August 2013 - 06:23 AM, said:

The fact that they havent deleted that thread shows how little they truly care

Im not happy about the whole defaulting to 3rd person view upon first launching the game, but its hardly forcing you to play in 3PV. You can turn it off.....so hence, you are not forced. They have not lied in any way shape or form (as far as I can tell) on this issue. In fact they have stayed in form. The rationalization (weather you agree or not) that PGI uses to do 3PV (as they have stated) is that it's tough for newbies to understand the Mechwarrior 1st person environment when they play the game the first time. So starting them in a softer environment will get them to stick. And for them to really succeed in MWO, they will have to abandon 3PV and play 1st person.

Again, not a 3PV fan here, but lets not get crazy with the whole lying thing.

EDIT: Replaced the quote with one I was trying to address.

Edited by AdamBaines, 21 August 2013 - 06:55 AM.

[Veebora]

I dont think 3rd p view is a huge advantage and I am ok playing against players that use this.

It is completely real and understandable in such year in future a mech having a view pod.

To it be perfect, just make it be destroyable and nobody can complains.

But I am surprised how the community is getting annoying and overreacting for such small reason.

[Demos]

Mixed feelings.
LBX reducing cone (+)
MG dunno
UAC/SSRM buff: there are months of inactivity and then such buffs? What about 20% jam rate and 2.0 damage as a first step? Or better, maybe the 15% jam percentage and harmonizing the cooldown with AC/5 to maybe 1.25sec?

3rdPV (-): It's xxxx-ugly to look. And where arer the legs, which should supposedly help new players? For new players the current 3PV is {Scrap}, and it will only help some cheaters...

Another CBill-nerf (-). Really? I'll not invest in new Mc and I'll not waste my MC on mediocre Premiumtime, not 'profitable' HeroMechs or - for cats sake - overpriced standard mechs for MC. Normally I had bought one Kintaro with CBills, together with the mechbay as well as one or two camos on sale. But apparently 1000 MC are not needed....

I'll not quit the game as - all things considered - I have more fun than not. And I have enough MC to spend for an occasional mechbay after a grind and maybe some colous or camos on sale. I'll just curtail new MC purchases.

But in a few weeks Rome Total War II will hit the release, and than there will be a real competitor for my precious (and limited) gaming time...

[Hotthedd]

Veebora, on 21 August 2013 - 06:46 AM, said:

I dont think 3rd p view is a huge advantage and I am ok playing against players that use this.

It is completely real and understandable in such year in future a mech having a view pod.

To it be perfect, just make it be destroyable and nobody can complains.

But I am surprised how the community is getting annoying and overreacting for such small reason.

It is not the 3PV as much as it is the blatant lying and blasé attitude about it. The fact that they lied to swindle those players gullible enough to believe the lie is even worse. It is in no way a small reason to disassociate yourself with PGI.

[Viper69]

Zephyr Charge, on 21 August 2013 - 06:38 AM, said:

the problem isnt that full grown adults cant do it; its that Russ' (I think) 12 year old son cant (But 5 year old Sarah could YMMV).

Not going to say anything in regards to the families of the employees here. What is funny is nothing in life do you learn to do in the 3rd person, you dont learn to ride a bike in the 3rd person, drive a car or even walk. yet Russ, Bryan and Paul in their infinite wisdom think that people need a "training tool" to learn to pilot a mech, yet its not exclusive to the "training grounds" or the "trial mechs". So I will ask Russ, Bryan and Paul what part of 3pv says training in your eyes?

I dont expect them to answer.

[Guile1x]

I'm not an expert like it seems every other person trolling this topic seems to be, however, I have been playing MWO since I could buy into the closed beta, so I do have the experience of playing this game as it has been developing over that course. Yes things have changed, yes I'm okay with that, however that being said the devs DO listen, I have seen them continually hone, tweak, and persist at making this game as FUCKEN AWESOME AS IT IS ! is it perfect ? to some people YES, to some people NO, to some people they can see it getting better, some see it getting worse. Bottom line, this game is fun and free ! I've been buying some founders packages and sometimes not. I took a six month period of not playing at all, but when I came back I found myself all giddy again. I purchased the PP package and look forward to watching the game getting better all the time. These DEVS CARE ABOUT THE GAME ! this is such a cool universe, one that I love so much because if I honestly lived in it I would be able to merc the **** out of all the trolls with my fav ERPPC WHAT WHAT ! stop bitching, cuz I got you in my cross hairs !

[Dawnstealer]

I logged in last night, popped into the options, unchecked the 3pv default box, and dropped into a game.

There was a whole one person who was using 3pv and they immediately asked how to shut it off. Curious what all the uproar was about, I hit ye ole F4 button.

Holy {Scrap}, 3pv is worse than useless, guys. You should be HOPING your competition uses it. Besides not really being any sort of advantage as far as aiming or shooting goes (MAYBE scouting, I'll give you that, but...), you have this DRONE OVER YOUR HEAD WITH A FLASHING RED LIGHT.

You can't be SOOPER STEALTH SPIDER, hiding out in the rocks, tagging things, telling your team what's up, because you have a DRONE OVER YOUR HEAD WITH A FLASHING RED LIGHT. So shhhhhhhh...I was worried, too. Turns out it's not that big a deal.

[EDIT: "{Scrap}"? REALLY?? who would get offended by "c+rap"?]

Edited by Dawnstealer, 21 August 2013 - 07:00 AM.

[Veebora]

Hotthedd, on 21 August 2013 - 06:53 AM, said:

It is not the 3PV as much as it is the blatant lying and blasé attitude about it. The fact that they lied to swindle those players gullible enough to believe the lie is even worse. It is in no way a small reason to disassociate yourself with PGI.

It is a beta and they are doing a mass test where everybody is using the 3PV, in this phase they can also identify the cheating use if it is possible.

The options to split the hardcore and softcore player base will be available later, it is already at the menu.

So why so much noise, it is too much.

The 3PV is good for the community as it will bring a lot of players that will support further developments.

It is like if I don't like the idea of coloring the Mechs and so I should forbid everybody to do it as it is unrealistic for military standards.

No sense from the community is not good for anybody.

[LONGINUS]

"It is a beta"

@Veebora: Would you please send me your postal address? I would like to send you a bottle of my famous "It's just Beta" puke!

[Deathlike]

Veebora, on 21 August 2013 - 06:58 AM, said:

It is a beta and they are doing a mass test where everybody is using the 3PV, in this phase they can also identify the cheating use if it is possible.

This assumes they took feedback from the Public Test Server 3PV test seriously. Clearly 99% of what was seen there is seen on LIVE servers. Thus, the feedback was generally ignored.

Quote

The options to split the hardcore and softcore player base will be available later, it is already at the menu.

We have the "Factions" and "Store" tabs... I'm sure these will be usable soon right?

[Hound of War]

I can understand the disapointment after being promised " no 3PV" and then "no forced 3PV games'' but really cant see the huge advantage of the "peek a boo" drone. If I can see a "poptarters" drone then I know where he is going to jump up...dident know that before 3PV. If I see someone scouting with a drone I can tell my buddies where to find him...dident know where that ECM Raven was before 3PV. I would like to see the time it takes to lanch the 3PV drone lengthened as also the time it takes to reel it back in, and I would like to see killable drones. Making the drones a modual would be great, but I guess that is a bit mutch to ask for. Before we all get our panties in a knot why not just really wait and see if we cant adapt to the game in its present state...its really is good fun once one quits the BAM on the forums and gets to playing (ask anyone who has been /is military what BAM is ).

[Hotthedd]

Veebora, on 21 August 2013 - 06:58 AM, said:

It is a beta and they are doing a mass test where everybody is using the 3PV, in this phase they can also identify the cheating use if it is possible.

The options to split the hardcore and softcore player base will be available later, it is already at the menu.

So why so much noise, it is too much.

The 3PV is good for the community as it will bring a lot of players that will support further developments.

It is like if I don't like the idea of coloring the Mechs and so I should forbid everybody to do it as it is unrealistic for military standards.

No sense from the community is not good for anybody.

I don't understand. You are saying "beta" means it is okay to blatantly lie to players in order to get their money? Is there another definition of "never" that I am unaware of?

You seem sure that they will split the queues. What makes you so certain? Because PGI SAID so? How can you believe a word they say?

You believe 3PV will bring in more players. That is conjecture. Maybe it will, maybe it won't, and even if it does, do 3PV players somehow not mind being lied to? They're good with that?

PGI shattered their trustworthiness, AND THEY DO NOT EVEN CARE.

Give them all the money you want, better you than me.

[101011]

Veebora, on 21 August 2013 - 06:58 AM, said:

It is a beta and they are doing a mass test where everybody is using the 3PV, in this phase they can also identify the cheating use if it is possible.
Guess what? We knew cheating was possible back in the test.
The options to split the hardcore and softcore player base will be available later, it is already at the menu.
Later isn't now. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you didn't read the thread, so I'll tell you that PGI EXPRESSLY told us that we would NEVER have to play with 3PV.
So why so much noise, it is too much.
See above: PGI lied to us.
The 3PV is good for the community as it will bring a lot of players that will support further developments.
Good for the community, huh? You don't make a lasting game by ******* off the older players and conning the new.
It is like if I don't like the idea of coloring the Mechs and so I should forbid everybody to do it as it is unrealistic for military standards.
This is completely off-topic. PGI lied to us, that's why we're so pissed. (also, lore-wise, the paint wasn't really for camouflage, but show. Parade colors, and all)
No sense from the community is not good for anybody. No sense from the community?

[RapierE01]

Give 3pv only during the first 25 Matches and its okay

[Zephyr Charge]

AdamBaines, on 21 August 2013 - 06:45 AM, said:

Im not happy about the whole defaulting to 3rd person view upon first launching the game, but its hardly forcing you to play in 3PV. You can turn it off.....so hence, you are not forced. They have not lied in any way shape or form (as far as I can tell) on this issue. In fact they have stayed in form. The rationalization (weather you agree or not) that PGI uses to do 3PV (as they have stated) is that it's tough for newbies to understand the Mechwarrior 1st person environment when they play the game the first time. So starting them in a softer environment will get them to stick. And for them to really succeed in MWO, they will have to abandon 3PV and play 1st person. Again, not a 3PV fan here, but lets not get crazy with the whole lying thing. EDIT: Replaced the quote with one I was trying to address.

say that in my non crazy ear please...
Not seperating the que means the game I play that I'm FORCED (as I have no other option other than not play) to play against OTHER PEOPLE using 3rd person. "You can turn it off" is a stupid argument given that its not about me.

[Lord Perversor]

Deathlike, on 21 August 2013 - 07:02 AM, said:

This assumes they took feedback from the Public Test Server 3PV test seriously. Clearly 99% of what was seen there is seen on LIVE servers. Thus, the feedback was generally ignored.



We have the "Factions" and "Store" tabs... I'm sure these will be usable soon right?

Well they Listen and added a whole 2 sec transition between views so ppl can't switch back every half second like testservers

[Zephyr Charge]

Viper69, on 21 August 2013 - 06:53 AM, said:

Not going to say anything in regards to the families of the employees here.

HE used that point as the basis of his argument... Sorry if you think Im mean for arguing that point but Im not the one who brought it up to start with here