1098 replies to this topic

[InRev]

The fact that this community spends as much time railing on the developer (PGI) as the state of the game itself shows that there is a serious, serious problem.

Games are easy to fix. Squash some bugs, tweak features, add content, etc. How do you fix the devs?

Just going to leave this here as food for thought:

http://massively.joy...online-players/

[iHover]

Veebora, on 21 August 2013 - 06:58 AM, said:

It is a beta and they are doing a mass test where everybody is using the 3PV, in this phase they can also identify the cheating use if it is possible.

The options to split the hardcore and softcore player base will be available later, it is already at the menu.

So why so much noise, it is too much.

The 3PV is good for the community as it will bring a lot of players that will support further developments.

It is like if I don't like the idea of coloring the Mechs and so I should forbid everybody to do it as it is unrealistic for military standards.

No sense from the community is not good for anybody.

1. The "its BETA" war cry is getting thin and PGI has already stated that this is the way it will roll out when the game goes live. They dont feel the need to keep thier word on seprating 1st person. Fraud seems to be just another trick in the PGI HAT.
and lets keep in mind they didnt lie about this once but have misled the comunity consistantly on this subject.
2. When 3pv was tested on the test servers PGI was given feedback on how this could be exploited.

[Frost Lord]

Viper69, on 21 August 2013 - 06:53 AM, said:

Not going to say anything in regards to the families of the employees here. What is funny is nothing in life do you learn to do in the 3rd person, you dont learn to ride a bike in the 3rd person, drive a car or even walk. yet Russ, Bryan and Paul in their infinite wisdom think that people need a "training tool" to learn to pilot a mech, yet its not exclusive to the "training grounds" or the "trial mechs". So I will ask Russ, Bryan and Paul what part of 3pv says training in your eyes?

I dont expect them to answer.

yeah you wouldn't really look at yore twist counter if you are using youre leg posishioning to gauge yore movement so it seems like more of a hindrance to learning.

a good old boot camp like every MW game has had would be fine, I was pretty young when i played MW2 and the controls were way more complicated then they are for MWO but i picked them up strait away.

Edited by Frost Lord, 21 August 2013 - 07:29 AM.

[LONGINUS]

RapierE01, on 21 August 2013 - 07:14 AM, said:

Give 3pv only during the first 25 Matches and its okay

Great idea. In addition to this: after your 25 matches free 3PV usage, you need to pay for with MC, like for the advanced uav drone.

Edited by LONGINUS, 21 August 2013 - 07:29 AM.

[Satchel 42]

The reaction is absurd.

3PV is mostly useless in a normal brawl. There are a few, select, occasional, sorta-kinda moments where it might be useful to try and peek-a-boo over a hill. Seismic is infinitely more useful than popping to 3PV.

People that are raging "THEY LIED TO US!!!!!!!!!!!" need to calm the hell down. Just drop a couple games and see how very few flashy red lights there are. You are not playing against people in 3PV. You are playing against people in 1PV. Why? Because 3PV is horrendous for combat.

The only purpose it serves is to look at your mech's pretty backside and admire your paint-job. I rather like this because, previously, the only time you got to see the outside of your mech is when you are unceremoniously scrapped. It's nice to see your own mech when it isn't just a smoking pile of wreckage.

[Frost Lord]

LONGINUS, on 21 August 2013 - 07:27 AM, said:

Great idea. In addition to this: after your 25 matches free 3PV usage, you need to pay for with MC, like for the advanced uav drone.

if the drone was a one shot use that had limited time and could be shot down then yeah.

[Viper69]

Zephyr Charge, on 21 August 2013 - 07:19 AM, said:

HE used that point as the basis of his argument... Sorry if you think Im mean for arguing that point but Im not the one who brought it up to start with here

Didnt say you did I personally wasnt going to comment and if he did his family into the discussion then its free gratis to use them as an example.

[Zephyr Charge]

this is the quote from the same IGN article: While MechWarrior is first person (intentionally, because they don't want you to sneak views around rocks and barriers by rotating a third-person camera),

[Panboy]

AdamBaines, on 21 August 2013 - 06:45 AM, said:

Im not happy about the whole defaulting to 3rd person view upon first launching the game, but its hardly forcing you to play in 3PV. You can turn it off.....so hence, you are not forced. They have not lied in any way shape or form (as far as I can tell) on this issue. In fact they have stayed in form. The rationalization (weather you agree or not) that PGI uses to do 3PV (as they have stated) is that it's tough for newbies to understand the Mechwarrior 1st person environment when they play the game the first time. So starting them in a softer environment will get them to stick. And for them to really succeed in MWO, they will have to abandon 3PV and play 1st person.

Again, not a 3PV fan here, but lets not get crazy with the whole lying thing.

EDIT: Replaced the quote with one I was trying to address.

You should really learn how to read, really in this day and age.

[Viper69]

Satchel 42, on 21 August 2013 - 07:28 AM, said:

The reaction is absurd.

3PV is mostly useless in a normal brawl. There are a few, select, occasional, sorta-kinda moments where it might be useful to try and peek-a-boo over a hill. Seismic is infinitely more useful than popping to 3PV.

People that are raging "THEY LIED TO US!!!!!!!!!!!" need to calm the hell down. Just drop a couple games and see how very few flashy red lights there are. You are not playing against people in 3PV. You are playing against people in 1PV. Why? Because 3PV is horrendous for combat.

The only purpose it serves is to look at your mech's pretty backside and admire your paint-job. I rather like this because, previously, the only time you got to see the outside of your mech is when you are unceremoniously scrapped. It's nice to see your own mech when it isn't just a smoking pile of wreckage.

Then if it really serves no purpose to have it other than look at your paint (which you can see just fine in a mech lab) Why not just have it on the training grounds? See statements like the above I find funny, its like when someone has cooked something with an ingredient you hate in it and they tell you "Well you cant taste it" Why put it in then if you cant taste it.

[Ngamok]

Chronojam, on 20 August 2013 - 01:37 PM, said:

Hi, how about you let other people voice their opinions to PGI as they (we?) all see fit. Because people are unhappy, and telling them to just quit will not increase your odds of finding a match or help the community grow. In fact, it's antithetical to fostering a strong community.

Then by all means continue to QQ. Played last night, 3PV is a joke. I know where people are using it. If you think 3PV is cheating, what do you think of UAV? Because UAV let's me rain LRMs on you and I can target each and everyone one of you that is underneath it wondering how I am doing it. And it lasts for like 45s.

Had fun last night with people using 3PV. Pretty much rolled up on them with friends and klilled them since I knew where they were. Then got into Seismic range and knew how many. Complain about 3PV more, it's not game breaking.

[Frost Lord]

Satchel 42, on 21 August 2013 - 07:28 AM, said:

The reaction is absurd.

3PV is mostly useless in a normal brawl. There are a few, select, occasional, sorta-kinda moments where it might be useful to try and peek-a-boo over a hill. Seismic is infinitely more useful than popping to 3PV.

People that are raging "THEY LIED TO US!!!!!!!!!!!" need to calm the hell down. Just drop a couple games and see how very few flashy red lights there are. You are not playing against people in 3PV. You are playing against people in 1PV. Why? Because 3PV is horrendous for combat.

The only purpose it serves is to look at your mech's pretty backside and admire your paint-job. I rather like this because, previously, the only time you got to see the outside of your mech is when you are unceremoniously scrapped. It's nice to see your own mech when it isn't just a smoking pile of wreckage.

you can look at it in mech bay =P
but seriesly at the moment the only thing making 3pv relatively useless is frame rate and or lag aswell as the fact players haven't had time to adjust give it time and players will be able to abuse it properly.
they were talking about a game mode that allowed you take 3 mechs into a conflict with your spare mechs being dropped in with a external animation inside the drop ship.

[Satchel 42]

Viper69, on 21 August 2013 - 07:34 AM, said:

Then if it really serves no purpose to have it other than look at your paint (which you can see just fine in a mech lab) Why not just have it on the training grounds? See statements like the above I find funny, its like when someone has cooked something with an ingredient you hate in it and they tell you "Well you cant taste it" Why put it in then if you cant taste it.

Yeah, I guess that's a good analogy. But to use your analogy, if you can't taste it, then what bloody difference does it make?

The only legitimate thing that can be complained about here is the waste of resources. If the time and effort spent on 3PV could have been used for additional mechs or maps, then that is a valid complaint.

Any other complaint is ridiculous. It only takes one word to describe 3PV entirely.........

Inconsequential.

Raging over the inconsequential is silly, so just drop it people.

[Zephyr Charge]

Satchel 42, on 21 August 2013 - 07:45 AM, said:

Yeah, I guess that's a good analogy. But to use your analogy, if you can't taste it, then what bloody difference does it make? The only legitimate thing that can be complained about here is the waste of resources. If the time and effort spent on 3PV could have been used for additional mechs or maps, then that is a valid complaint. Any other complaint is ridiculous. It only takes one word to describe 3PV entirely......... Inconsequential. Raging over the inconsequential is silly, so just drop it people.

ah the company you pay for the game lying to you over and over again is inconsequential to you?
You really think that that act should be without consequence?

[MischiefSC]

The issue is less about balance and more about integrity. We are being sold a game based on promises of what it will be. If they lie, repeatedly, about that what sort of fool would I be not to be concerned?

[Satchel 42]

Zephyr Charge, on 21 August 2013 - 07:49 AM, said:

ah the company you pay for the game lying to you over and over again is inconsequential to you?
You really think that that act should be without consequence?

YES!! Yes that's exactly what I am saying!

I understand the concerns about 3PV being OP when we didn't know how it would be implemented, but now we do. And guess what?! It is a severe liability in combat and only marginally useful for scouting. Very marginal.

So, as it is implemented is of no concern to the old guard here.

At worst, it is ne'er used and goes the way of advanced zoom. (I suspect this will be the case)

However there is that slight possibility that it will attract a significant amount of new blood. The more the merrier. This game deserves to succeed.

[AdamBaines]

Zephyr Charge, on 21 August 2013 - 07:15 AM, said:

say that in my non crazy ear please...
Not separating the que means the game I play that I'm FORCED (as I have no other option other than not play) to play against OTHER PEOPLE using 3rd person. "You can turn it off" is a stupid argument given that its not about me.

You wont be fored to play against them either. Once CW1 is in place, and we are out of BETA, If your a merc, you will never play against 3PV players as it will be restricted to first person only. Not forced. Then if your a house, lone wolf, etc the separate queues will be in place. So if your set for 1st person, you will not play against 3PV. Again not forced.

Until then, yes you will be forced, but this is BETA. Its not the end product. That's the way a SDLC works. You implement certain parts in phases, especially in BETA. And it also seems this is very agile, and not waterfall, which means even more piece meal process.

If CW is finished, and we are live out of BETA, and your still FORCED to play against 3PV, then quoting the line in question will make total sense.

Did that get into your non crazy ear? I forgot which it was, the right or left? I know for me, I'm just stuck with a crazy ear because i cant hear out of my rational one

Edit: Spelling error and etc.

Edited by AdamBaines, 21 August 2013 - 09:19 AM.

[Blue Footed Booby]

Satchel 42, on 21 August 2013 - 07:45 AM, said:

Yeah, I guess that's a good analogy. But to use your analogy, if you can't taste it, then what bloody difference does it make?

The only legitimate thing that can be complained about here is the waste of resources. If the time and effort spent on 3PV could have been used for additional mechs or maps, then that is a valid complaint.

Any other complaint is ridiculous. It only takes one word to describe 3PV entirely.........

Inconsequential.

Raging over the inconsequential is silly, so just drop it people.

The way you address your post at "people" without in any way acknowledging the different opinions in this thread, even within the general umbrellas of pro-3pv and anti-3pv suggests to me that you might not have read the thread, or even the last few pages. I'll quote the relevant part of my own post for your convenience:

Blue Footed Booby, on 21 August 2013 - 06:39 AM, said:

...
Let me be clear: my objection is not to the third person mode itself or its direct effects on gameplay. Rather, I see their handling of third person as emblematic of the larger responsiveness, transparency, and I'm sorry to say honesty issues that have plagued MWO's development, especially of late. I want very badly for this game to flourish and become a permanent fixture of the FTP community and gaming writ large. I think PGI has it in them to make that happen. This is why I'm so disappointed that they aren't doing so.
...

[MnDragon]

I will probably get flammed for this, but luckily flamers do no damage to armor I completely understand everyone being upset about 3PV being introduced. It goes against what PGI was saying originally, and you are entitled to be upset. I for one, don't like 3PV, and will most likely never use it. However, what I feel most people are forgetting is that we are beta testers. Though we don't get paid, and in fact, we give money up to play, our role is to test components of the game and provide constructive feedback to the devs about said components. If 3PV isn't meeting the intent of the dev's, it is our role to tell them about it here, constructively, so that it eventually meets the intent of the game. That is the purpose of releaseing a game to the public in Beta, so that the gamers can provide feedback and feel a part of the process. My thoughts are, if you don't like a component about the game and you feel its not getting changed despite your constructive criticism....Don't play it.

If they never released this game to beta and you went to purchase/DL the game and looked at the box/description and it said "immersive 3PV to allow you the best possible angles" you wouldn't buy the game. You wouldn't spend any money on the game if it was that crucial to you. So, we are lucky as players in that we can vote. We vote with our wallets. PGI stated that 3PV was to help bring in more players, and in thier eyes, more money. Yes, its F2P, but they still make money off of us. So if they start losing money because of this decision, they will retract it. Again I say, if you don't like it, don't play.

But what about the money we already spent? Well, you got to play it when it wasn't the way you hate. I used to spend money every month on a WoW subscription. I loved playing, it was awesome. Then it got stupid. I stoped spending money, stopped playing. I didn't get mad because they introduced stupidity to the game. I left, with my money and found another game to play. But I got what I felt was my money's worth.

As for me, I will continue to play. This game means more to me than a squable over how competitive it is in which mode. I am a member of a community and I get to play my favorite game since the inception of the computer.

[Zephyr Charge]

Satchel 42, on 21 August 2013 - 08:00 AM, said:

YES!! Yes that's exactly what I am saying!

YOU are fine with the company flat out lying to you. Many of us arent. You have fun paying them to lie to you, you have fun with that. To ME thats idiotic but YMMV

AdamBaines, on 21 August 2013 - 08:00 AM, said:

You wont be fored to play against them either. Once CW1 is in place, and we are out of BETA, If your a merc, you will never play against 3PV players as it will be restricted to first person only. Not forced. Then if your a house, lone wolf, etc the separate queues will be in place. So if your set for 1st person, you will not play against 3PV. Again not forced. Until then, yes you will be forced, but this is BETA. Its not the end product. That the way a SDLC works. You implement certain parts in phases, especially in BETA. And it also seems this is very agile, and not waterfall, which means even more piece meal process. If CW is finished, and we are live out of BETA, and your still FORCED to play against 3PV, then quoting the line question line will make total sense. Did that get into your non crazy ear? I forgot which it was, the right or left? I know for me, I'm just stuck with a crazy ear because i cant hear out of my rational one

Yeah sorry; I cant have that much hope given the past history of these guys.
Good luck to you however