1098 replies to this topic

[Satchel 42]

Yes, PGI lied. Explicitly lied. Without a doubt went against their word.

But c'mon, not all lies are created equally. 3PV has no impact on the game as we play it today.

I guess I just don't get it.

[TheSteelRhino]

Chronojam, on 20 August 2013 - 11:30 PM, said:

How disingenuous. You realize that ECM takes up criticals, weight, and is only applicable to very select chassis, right? There are no heavy mechs that can use ECM, but they can all now look past buildings just fine. Great! Just what the jumpsnipers needed, the ability to pick their targets in a calm fashion instead of admittedly having only a short time to find the target during their ascent. I'm glad to see jumpsniping get another buff. I'm sure everybody still regularly playing had started to miss it.

Dude. Have you Played mw4? The jumpsniping here is not even close to what that was like.

I dont even lime 3pv. But i haven't seen a good argument yet. I will try it. But I assume you have since you bring it up. Does the cursor shake in 3pv?

[Blue Footed Booby]

Satchel 42, on 21 August 2013 - 08:09 AM, said:

Yes, PGI lied. Explicitly lied. Without a doubt went against their word.

But c'mon, not all lies are created equally. 3PV has no impact on the game as we play it today.

I guess I just don't get it.

I'm going to say it again, for the second time on this very page: third person is not by itself some sort of deal-breaking, game-ruining mega-issue. Rather it is emblematic of a larger pattern, the latest event in an ongoing history of bizarre development choices, poor responsiveness, and insufficient transparency. 3PV is being used as the example because it's the latest, but it is, as many people in this thread have acknowledged in just the past few pages, a far smaller issue than the byzantine heat penalty system and repeated unexplained delays plaguing community warfare. You're free to disagree with this characterization of the development process thus far, but please do me and other posters in this thread the courtesy of not misrepresenting our explicitly stated ideas.

Rhinehardt Ritter, on 21 August 2013 - 08:13 AM, said:

Dude. Have you Played mw4? The jumpsniping here is not even close to what that was like.

I dont even lime 3pv. But i haven't seen a good argument yet. I will try it. But I assume you have since you bring it up. Does the cursor shake in 3pv?

I don't like to do this, but if you haven't seen Chronojam post a well formed idea then you aren't looking. He has made a tremendous number of high-quality posts, and accusing him of complaining without explaining or offering alternatives is so mind-bogglingly ironic that it stretches my usual assumption of good faith.

Edited by Blue Footed Booby, 21 August 2013 - 08:21 AM.

[TheSteelRhino]

Icedman, on 21 August 2013 - 12:53 AM, said:

Yup, it's balanced. For people playing only in 3rd person. The problem is any player who knows how to hit f4 can get the best of both worlds. 3rd person for some scouting / peaking / screenshot taking and 1st person for actual fighting, since selecting one doesn't lock you out of the other like it should to be "balanced".

Go grab a spider and play a map like Canyon Network, with a bunch of little rocks and tiers just bigger than the spider itself. Now toggle 3pv. Yes, there is a nice little drone behind your head... but seeing the drone doesn't give me a target lock and the spider can see everything. No new player is going to do this, and even experienced players may choose not to but it's there and it's an advantage. Free information with no risk.

Beyond that, one of the other reasons people hate the way it was put in has a bit to do with this little gem:


This never should have been said if they weren't going to release both hardcore and 3pv at the same time.

Fair enough he stuck his foot in it with his previous statements no doubt
As far as functionality goes what if it burned a module slot? Sorry. I'm an old mw4 player so the fuctionality here isnt that op imho. There 3pv with poptarts was a nightmare. And by the way, u can See the blinky red light a mile away. Wondering what happens if u dumb fire lrms at it.

[Gwaihir]

AdamBaines, on 21 August 2013 - 08:00 AM, said:

You wont be fored to play against them either. Once CW1 is in place, and we are out of BETA, If your a merc, you will never play against 3PV players as it will be restricted to first person only. Not forced. Then if your a house, lone wolf, etc the separate queues will be in place. So if your set for 1st person, you will not play against 3PV. Again not forced.

Until then, yes you will be forced, but this is BETA. Its not the end product. That the way a SDLC works. You implement certain parts in phases, especially in BETA. And it also seems this is very agile, and not waterfall, which means even more piece meal process.

If CW is finished, and we are live out of BETA, and your still FORCED to play against 3PV, then quoting the line question line will make total sense.

Did that get into your non crazy ear? I forgot which it was, the right or left? I know for me, I'm just stuck with a crazy ear because i cant hear out of my rational one

And you know all this how, exactly? Or is this most **** pulled out of your ***, because PGI has said jack about what will ACTUALLY happen?

[Belorion]

I was never particularly against 3PV, but I do think their current hat trick in regards to mixing the queues without having a hardmode option as was promised is a definite move in the wrong direction and a bad pr move.

[Ngamok]

Banshee Bullet, on 20 August 2013 - 02:30 PM, said:

Has anybody else noticed all their matches have become completely one sided since the patch? or is it just me?

Win or lose, it's been by a landslide all afternoon.

No. About 25% of the matches I am in end up in 12 vs 8 deaths. Some long hard fought battles. Sure the other 75% wind up in rolls 12 vs 0, 12 vs 2, 12 vs 4. That is expected when you start losing people pretty fast with more people gunning for you still alive.

[Ngamok]

mint frog, on 20 August 2013 - 02:52 PM, said:

GuildWars2 is having a free to play weekend this weekend as well.

GW2 is still pretty good game. I log in from time to time to do the new stuff they release.

[Jakob Knight]

AdamBaines, on 21 August 2013 - 08:00 AM, said:

You wont be fored to play against them either. Once CW1 is in place, and we are out of BETA, If your a merc, you will never play against 3PV players as it will be restricted to first person only. Not forced. Then if your a house, lone wolf, etc the separate queues will be in place. So if your set for 1st person, you will not play against 3PV. Again not forced.

Until then, yes you will be forced, but this is BETA. Its not the end product. That the way a SDLC works. You implement certain parts in phases, especially in BETA. And it also seems this is very agile, and not waterfall, which means even more piece meal process.

If CW is finished, and we are live out of BETA, and your still FORCED to play against 3PV, then quoting the line question line will make total sense.

Did that get into your non crazy ear? I forgot which it was, the right or left? I know for me, I'm just stuck with a crazy ear because i cant hear out of my rational one

I would like to see what source you have for your information, as the last official word I have seen was:

"After designing, developing, and testing the MWO’s 3PV, we quickly realised that 3PV offered no significant advantage over 1PV. In fact we found each mode had pros and cons that played well with each other. This revelation changed our initial 3PV plans and we postponed Hardcore mode (separate queues for 1PV and 3PV), in favor of rethinking the idea and offering up a different solution that also addressed a few more community wish list items." - Bryan Ekman

Translation: No seperate queues for 1PV and 3PV, in favor of rethinking the idea and coming up with something else that lets us add other features.

So, no. As it stands now, there will be no seperate queues for the two modes of play, as the Devs see no reason to have them. Unless you have some other documented information that has come out since that post yesterday, you are not speaking from an informed perspective.

[Ngamok]

Kattspya, on 20 August 2013 - 04:04 PM, said:

Where was the whining?

I already acknowledged the patch notes in the post you quoted.

I sent in a PM telling them MGs were a bit too much after playing my CDA-3C with 4 of them. I hope people liked their legs shredded by me.

[Ngamok]

Kattspya, on 20 August 2013 - 04:52 PM, said:

Ooooh nine pages.

Why aren't LRM's nerfed yet?

Because LRMs are fine. MGs were tearing people up really fast. You want wonder why every JM6-DD, CDA-3C, HBK-4G, SDR-5K, and DRG-5N were all carrying MGs? MGs shredded anythign that had no armor in a second. If you had no armor and any one of these came up to you, you can kiss your rear end goodbye.

[Deathlike]

Ngamok, on 21 August 2013 - 08:46 AM, said:

Because LRMs are fine. MGs were tearing people up really fast. You want wonder why every JM6-DD, CDA-3C, HBK-4G, SDR-5K, and DRG-5N were all carrying MGs? MGs shredded anythign that had no armor in a second. If you had no armor and any one of these came up to you, you can kiss your rear end goodbye.

It's actually kinda counterproductive to run a 4G with 3 MGs... maybe an AC20+2MGs or Gauss+2MGs.

[Ngamok]

MischiefSC, on 20 August 2013 - 06:00 PM, said:

The game goes live on September 20th. Get your Metacritic accounts ready!

Mine will be 7 / 10. Being honest. You guys can be the CoD vs. BF idiots who just 0 / 10 each others game because you're fanguys.

[Ngamok]

El Bandito, on 20 August 2013 - 07:51 PM, said:

So you mean we should be overjoyed that PGI is at least wiping some of the mess they created in the first place? Especially the MG crit buff NO ONE asked for? How wonderful.

PGI think they are soooooo smart by lying to the players about separate queue and placating them with greyed out hardcore mode in the launcher. What a load of crock!

No people asked PGI countless times to make MGs and Flamers useful. Well, they made the MGs TOO useful.

[Guile1x]

seeing as a lot of the commune is scrolling this topic just want to throw out an idea the popped into my brain yesterday when I first saw (hardcore) mode available, perhaps this has been discussed at length already, but here goes.

Would it be realistic to have in hardcore mode the potential to lose your mech entirely in a battle that is in hardcore mode ? or lose limbs / weapons that are damaged in battle ? I know it is possible, perhaps not that hard to implement on the dev side, though perhaps it would be. I just think about some of the most memorable times in gaming is when I know that everything is riding on my every move etc. Don't get me wrong, if they did do this, the rewards would have to be multiplied by a factor of 10 or something to make it worth while, and all sorts of QQ would ensue, but overall I think it would be so fucken cool to see that.

cheers.

[Ngamok]

Zephyr Charge, on 20 August 2013 - 08:18 PM, said:

Oh noez I can see over that hill and the guys looking at my little blinking light cant tell if its one jenner or the whole enemy team over here

Oh noez, UAV somewhere. This guy put it up and I don't know where it's at or I haven't seen it yet but he noez my team is here.

Red Blinky needs to be destructable btw just so I can kill my teams as well as the enemies.

[Ngamok]

Zephyr Charge, on 20 August 2013 - 09:19 PM, said:

Man tho; theyre gonna get slaughtered on metacritic lol

Metacritic is dumb for non professional reviews. No serious person will ever use that what players put down as a judge of the game. I'll give you fact, MW3 was sitting around 3.5 / 10 because all the BF people were voting it down with 0s and 1s. So you would use that as a good judge of the game? BF3 got the same treatment from the CoD people. Please.

[Elbola Ierocis]

AdamBaines, on 21 August 2013 - 06:45 AM, said:

Im not happy about the whole defaulting to 3rd person view upon first launching the game, but its hardly forcing you to play in 3PV. You can turn it off.....so hence, you are not forced. They have not lied in any way shape or form (as far as I can tell) on this issue. In fact they have stayed in form. The rationalization (weather you agree or not) that PGI uses to do 3PV (as they have stated) is that it's tough for newbies to understand the Mechwarrior 1st person environment when they play the game the first time. So starting them in a softer environment will get them to stick. And for them to really succeed in MWO, they will have to abandon 3PV and play 1st person.

Again, not a 3PV fan here, but lets not get crazy with the whole lying thing.

EDIT: Replaced the quote with one I was trying to address.

You should read that quote. It says you'll never be forced to use or PLAY AGAINST 3PV.

[Zeus X]

For all who missed it, or tl;dr.


Russ not only makes himself look like a a$$-hole, but he makes PGI look like an a$$-hole too and to top it all off, he doesn't give a rats a$$ about the community, his own posts show this.

[Chronojam]

Kitane, on 21 August 2013 - 01:44 AM, said:

The worst thing about this debacle isn't that they were lying or that there aren't separate queues, but that the feature completely backfired.

The game is much much more difficult to play in 3rd person view than in cockpit view.

Their solution to make 3rd person view less appealing made it unusable for anything BUT peeking over obstacles.

They cannot afford to leave this enabled by default for new players, this will drive away any new player wildly screaming how unbelievably bad are controls in this "unfinished trainwreck".

That's right. For several chassis, you cannot even see your legs easily if at all, and its clunky nature (including the removal of radar) seems to make it harder for new players to use. Of course, experienced players can overlook these issues, will be rapidly switching, and are on voice chat sharing intel as their one scout (not their main force) puts up the drone to safely observe the enemy. Newer players will probably leave it up, not knowing how to switch it off, giving away their team's position as they travel.

Of course it's also superb for "crest-fighting" or "poptarting," where experienced players would peek over a ridge before spotting a target and unleashing a typical long-range high-alpha attack that's been plaguing the game for over half a year, or perhaps they will peek over a building to find the enemy right before jump-sniping with greater ease than ever before.

The cruel tragedy is that this is going to penalize new players, and bolster experienced teams' advantages while supporting the long-range high-alpha metagame. Is this really what anybody wanted? No, it isn't.