2021 replies to this topic

[Overkill C7]

I don't really see that working. Even if they charged back all those that request it there will still be a large customer base that stays along with new customers and some that will return after they cool down. It's not going to hurt PGI that much and they're not in business to make everyone happy. If they were they'd go out in less than a week. It's impossible to make everyone happy. As for the "they lied to us!!!!" comments, it's still a developing work in progress. It's a given that they're going to change things. It's a given that some things that were originally intended will not be implemented or will be changed. The comments about someone being fired or PGI going out of business are immature and ignorant. Do you really want someone to loose their ability to take care of their family because a game made for multiple users is not exactly perfect in your eyes? This is not directed at any one person. It's directed at all of you so you'll try to use your common sense (a much depleted resource in today society) before you type something stupid on a public forum.

[Sam Slade]

Kunae, on 21 August 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

the product has not been released yet, no one has taken delivery of any of their pre-orders, whether that's in the form of Founders/Phoenix, or direct MC purchases.

This, as it turns out, is only part of the truth. What makes it worse for PGI is that they took a 'kickstarter' plunge with none of the 'kickstarter' safety nets. Ask your legal department/lawyer what that can mean for them... short answer is 'bad'.

Throw into the mix that it's relativly uncharted legal territory and consider what any grey area will mean in the PGI vs. VISA arena spectacular.

Abivard, on 21 August 2013 - 07:13 AM, said:

Bait and switch removed all of PGI's protections.

You must make a good faith attempt to request a refund from pgi, then when they refuse and or ignore it, you may then call your bank/cc and dispute the charges, they will send you a form, list 'bait and switch' return form, PGI will then be dealing with the Banks/CC's.

Just because a merchant places disclaimers does not mean those disclaimers have ANY LEGAL standing.

At this point, you should also contact your state attorney general's office and also file a complaint, 'bait and switch', now PGI can deal with the State Attorney general's office working on our behalf.

Then we can start forming class action lawsuits.

PGI! Feed them to the Lawyers I say!

For the USA this is true,,, for 'Common Law' countries(UK, Canada, Australia, NZ) check the current statutes on 'missrepresentation' and 'misleading and deceptive conduct' provided PGI confirm that the Founders Package is a 'whole and complete product'... if they say it's not complete then your bank should step up for you.

NB: This is just the initail answer I got. Waiting on more detail from ***** and a response from PGI customer support

EDIT: this is not vindictive, I simply want my money for Star Citizen. Alright maybe a touch vindictive but who can abide such flagrant missrepresentation? It's almost a Battletech Ponzi scheme.

Edited by Sam Slade, 21 August 2013 - 07:45 AM.

[Reaganomicon]

Almond Brown, on 21 August 2013 - 07:31 AM, said:

Chargeback terms:

Which of those didn't you get exactly when you typed in your CC many months ago?

I'm lollin' even harder now. I'm sorry, but it would be trivial to argue that PGI failed to deliver what you expected. It doesn't even have to be true, or supported by any real evidence. The bar for chargebacks is ludicrously low.

[Mystere]

Kaosoaks, on 21 August 2013 - 06:23 AM, said:

It looks cool, thats about it. 3PV Makes the game completely different. the ability to see around corners changes alot. the fact that the view is unrealistic takes away from it being a simulation, having arms locked and stuff is just crazy. honestly, if you could buy a third person module, like an antennae with a camera on it, that you equip your mech with, that would be cool. but i dont see what gives you the right to have 3pv on a mech with no equipment to give you that. I like this game cos I like battle simulations. and 3pv kinda ***** that up. I dont know how you can fix it now, other than make it a module to buy, for like, 50k cbills, then all the cry babies like myself will feel honored rather than ripped off.

Well, some people are just complaining (to put it ever so mildly ). Others, on the other hand, prefer to offer some suggestions for improvement.

[Reaganomicon]

Overkill C7, on 21 August 2013 - 07:31 AM, said:

The comments about someone being fired or PGI going out of business are immature and ignorant. Do you really want someone to loose their ability to take care of their family because a game made for multiple users is not exactly perfect in your eyes?

Uh, any PGI employee worth employing will have a new job before the last paycheck comes in.

Edited by Reaganomicon, 21 August 2013 - 07:36 AM.

[Omen Strike]

Thosarmer, on 21 August 2013 - 07:30 AM, said:

Don't care. Things change. That is life. I could go on but, you'd be like OMG GO BACK TO YOUR WHOLE LOLOLOLOLOLOLO LEAVE TEH REAL players to this.
Seriously dude can it. You superiority isn't warranted or welcome. I like both views and nothing is going to change my mind on that. I love how you people take this {Scrap} so seriously. It is a game if you win you win if you lose you lose. Quit acting like a child and grow the hell up.

Then y do you care?

[Tabrias07]

Kunae, on 21 August 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

It's beta.

Which means as the product has not been released yet, no one has taken delivery of any of their pre-orders, whether that's in the form of Founders/Phoenix, or direct MC purchases.

This is the stupidest thing I've read all day.

And I've been browsing these forums all day.

[IceSerpent]

Almond Brown, on 21 August 2013 - 07:31 AM, said:

Which of those didn't you get exactly when you typed in your CC many months ago?

The "goods or services are not delivered" part seems to apply, as we were supposed to be founding a specific game with specific features and ended up with something completely different.

[FlipOver]

"I see dumb people"

This thought occured to me while reading that this 3PV stuff doesn't give any advantage.

AUTO-AIM while using 3PV ROCKS!!!
Mostly because the majority of people don't even understand how to take advantage of it while snipping or just brawling.
They say the cross-hair is jumpy, failing to understand it jumps to help you hit the target on its most damaged places.
Snipping hidden (not peeping) behind an object, using jumpjets and already aiming to where your enemy is going to be, that's a ticket for success.

Oh, but wait, there is a blinking thing letting the enemy know ONE player in 3PV is hidden there.
There could be 5 more with him just playing in 1PV, also you wont know what mech it is and he will know how many are coming, where from are they coming and which mechs are there.
So yeah, you can tell there is someone using 3PV "over there" and that's all you will know.

Again, PGI correct the 3PV glitches and use it JUST IN A TUTORIAL.

Already gave you ideas to how to do that and some things to make it interesting for all new players.

If you like the steady income from a core playerbase, don't make the error of ignoring all the 3PV exploiting people can find.

Previous MW games died for the same reason.

[Scarcer]

Namais, on 21 August 2013 - 07:31 AM, said:

I'd love to know any reasoning or precedent that leads you to believe there will ever be split modes. They've given up on it and it's simply not happening short of them spinning out on the next U turn and enabling it by accident.

Second best is an aspiration for these people.

I left plenty of precedent there to give lead on what I actually do think. We have all seen the command chair post, and it's absolutely confusing. It doesn't concretely say they intend to do anything; but does lead the public to think they are giving up the split queue idea and trying to find another way to 'please the public'.

Wither I care about the details or not; I don't have to repeat what's already been said 1000's of times.

[Raistlic]

Quote

It is a game if you win you win if you lose you lose. Quit acting like a child and grow the hell up.

It's a game some people spend mony for while others just play it for free. But those who spent money on that game has a right to complain. An that IS grown up.

[Reaganomicon]

Often, the winning move is not to play.

[jozkhan]

You remember that IGN article that called MWO 'The Thinking Persons Shooter'? You know PGI uses it all the time on the drop page here...

from the same article:

'While MechWarrior is first person (intentionally, because they don't want you to sneak views around rocks and barriers by rotating a third-person camera)'

hrm

[Arcticfox9]

Brookens Halostar, on 21 August 2013 - 07:23 AM, said:

As I was looking through the forums, I have stumbled across a topic that has been closed. After reading this topic I am wondering why 3PV was even added to begin with. Yes I know PGI has promised from the begging that 3PV would not be added but even in the past there has been a lot of dislike to the idea of 3PV.

http://mwomercs.com/...age__mode__show

This topic was posted near the end of January. The post was a poll of like or dislike towards 3PV and in the post there is a mention of an older poll that had taken place and was deleted.

After reading the post I have decided that PGI has no intentions on keeping any promises they make and that their paying and non-paying players don't mean anything more to them than a short lived paycheck and declining ratings.

I have payed my dues early in the game and as of now with broken promises and other downfalls I wish I had not.

Here is the older poll that you have cited - dates back to late November 2012.
http://bs.beckament..../poll-today.JPG

As for 3rd person - it was the last straw for me. Earlier in the year, I cut them some slack because there were technical challenges. But this is different. They cancelled the 1PV queue without a single communication of their intention to do so.

I think many players felt that the introduction of 3PV was an acceptable compromise (middle ground) to help them with their business, provided that there would still be a 1PV only queue.

I haven't requested a refund of the MC that I purchased. I got to play a fairly decent developmental game for the most part of the past 9 months since open beta launch. However, I did request a refund for Phoenix as I have not used any of that premium time nor have I received any of the mechs for that package. I would not have purchased the package if I knew there would be no 1PV queue. Support has replied back stating that they have forwarded my request to their billing department.

If things change, ie. PGI is held to their promise and they fulfill it, I would come back to play. For now, thanks for the good times.

[Renaissance]

Reaganomicon, on 21 August 2013 - 07:40 AM, said:

Often, the winning move is not to play.

How about a nice game of chess?

[Abivard]

Almond Brown, on 21 August 2013 - 07:31 AM, said:

Chargeback terms:



Which of those didn't you get exactly when you typed in your CC many months ago?

Look PGI worker, don't keep lying and misleading the people here. Usually is the key word in your 'quote' from an unknown source.

Bait and Switch is another major reason for disputes, which is what you as a customer do, at that point the CC preforms a charge back against the merchant, which the merchant MUST comply with, they have no choice, the banks listen to the CC co not the merchant.

Now the merchant (PGI) must prove that they did not defraud the customer....

Now, as PGI has clearly defrauded us by the use of Bait and Switch tactics they aren't going to be able to prove anything to the CC companies.

Almond Brown what a disingenuous name, PGI dock him a moonthes pay and take away his pudding for such a give away name.

'Almond in the pudding' + 'Brown Nosing' = PGI tout/schill

[Bront]

I opened a support ticket already, but I'm unable to get 3PV to work now. F4 does nothing.

[Mystere]

Mitch D Connor, on 21 August 2013 - 06:38 AM, said:

3pv is unacceptable. thought this game is a mech simulator.

last time i was betrayed that way .... hmmm... i think it was SWTOR ... yeah the worst game ever ... ( truly a wow Killer LOL)

hmm... wasn´t it developed by canadians too ??

take this 3pv {Scrap} back or you will loose a lot of customers ... cause MWO is not a good game anymore, just as we would say in Good old Germany a 0815 f2p game ...

Isn't singling out Canadians a little uncalled for? Or do you want people to start singling out Germans?

[nehebkau]

I think the 3rd person is a good idea.

I don't think its current implementation is right. I believe that the camera should be a module, like ECM or BAP, 1 slot and maybe .5 weight. I think that in 3rd person mode you shouldn't have your targeting reticuli, nor should you have your hit-detection indicators. Some people like to pilot in 3rd, specially in crowed spaces and i don't have a problem with it, given that it's advantages come with relevant associated draw backs.

[Scarcer]

flipover, on 21 August 2013 - 07:38 AM, said:

"I see dumb people"

This thought occured to me while reading that this 3PV stuff doesn't give any advantage.

AUTO-AIM while using 3PV ROCKS!!!
Mostly because the majority of people don't even understand how to take advantage of it while snipping or just brawling.
They say the cross-hair is jumpy, failing to understand it jumps to help you hit the target on its most damaged places.
Snipping hidden (not peeping) behind an object, using jumpjets and already aiming to where your enemy is going to be, that's a ticket for success.

Oh, but wait, there is a blinking thing letting the enemy know ONE player in 3PV is hidden there.
There could be 5 more with him just playing in 1PV, also you wont know what mech it is and he will know how many are coming, where from are they coming and which mechs are there.
So yeah, you can tell there is someone using 3PV "over there" and that's all you will know.

Again, PGI correct the 3PV glitches and use it JUST IN A TUTORIAL.

Already gave you ideas to how to do that and some things to make it interesting for all new players.

If you like the steady income from a core playerbase, don't make the error of ignoring all the 3PV exploiting people can find.

Previous MW games died for the same reason.

It's man-child comments like this that's creating noise for the legitimate issues at stake here.
The crosshair snapping isn't auto-aim, in the cockpit, the raytrace for the crosshair travels directly from the center of the screen, so it's always in the center on any surface directly in front of you.

In third person, the ray-trace is still traveling from the cockpit, but your viewing it from another angle. If there is terrain or a mech in your way, it 'snaps' to that object because it's in your line of sight. Look at the terrain, up down, side to side and you'll see it.

Don't just play a game or two and see the cross-hair move and come complain about auto-aim when you don't understand it...