2021 replies to this topic

[Koniving]

etnycs, on 20 August 2013 - 06:29 PM, said:

You added in an aimbot with 3rd person!!! Everyone is a perfect shot. Btw who the heck wanted a 3rd person view on a FPS anyway? Unfortunately i am out on a game i was playing pretty much every day until you guys take that aimbot out.

Koniving, on 20 August 2013 - 07:37 PM, said:

You're referring to the jumping crosshair? Believe it or not that happens in first person too. The difference is you can only see the crosshair as given in first person. We call this "convergence."

Specifically we call this "instant convergence due to all the people whining about not being able to get their weapons to lock on light mechs due to the past server controlled 1-second delay convergence."

Now that you're seeing it from a different angle where you are not looking directly down the sights, you can see how it adjusts for a range instantaneously. This is the "pinpoint b.s." everyone cries about when someone clicks Armlock.

Welcome to the game -- you're a little late in noticing something that's been here for months.
But alas, it is not an aim assist. It's simply convergence. The difference between looking down the sights (first person) to having a line drawn from the barrel to the target (third person).

You will actually find aiming in third person to be harder while moving, due to the reticule bobbing up and down.

While stationary, you may find the third person easier to aim as you know exactly when your convergence is on the target. If the convergence was still set at 1 second, it would gradually "ease" onto the target from a distant point over the period of 1 second.

However other than visually seeing the adjustment and confirmation in convergence on the target there isn't a difference. In first person that'd snap from the hills 700 meters away, to the light 30 meters in front of you and when you lead too far, to the 700 meter away hill again. In third person you see the same, but now you're just holding your convergence on target and not leading.

[RainbowToh]

Actually 3pv is really crappy. Looking around the corner, helpful maybe...... without the sense of depth from 1pv, you might have exposed part of your mech while trying to look around the corner n get shot. And in 3pv, no minimap plus armlock and the weird sense of depth misplacement makes me giddy, means 1pv for me. Instead of 3pv, how about a obstacle warning voice like a car. The beeping alarm one gets when parking in a car. Instead for mwo, we can have Betty saying, 'Obstacle detected' whenever we get stuck or something.

[Joachim Viltry]

Tarzilman, on 20 August 2013 - 08:43 PM, said:

Great Scott, you are a bunch of crying children...

see you say that. but at what time do you stand up and say "hey, enough is enough"?

This isnt about 3PV, it isn't even about Russ. and it certainly isn't about your sensibilities or feelings regarding our response! it's about PGI being poorly run from day 1. and quite a few of us are tired of it.

There is a clear pattern of abuse here. Ranging from misdirection to outright lies as well as the poor treatment of the community that you yourself noted.

When is it time to act? Or would you have us be pets taking what we are given, and accepting the idea that things cannot be better? that things wouldn't be better? We have a wonderfully bright community when it comes to game play concepts, we have folks who worked on LL here as well, that have valuable experience with these same issues. The #saveMWO community meeting proved that we had a very solid bunch of folks with better ideas than PGI.

And a few of us have had enough of the BS, and the general failure to listen to anything actually constructive.

[Zephyr Charge]

Speak up I didnt catch that:

This post is hidden because you have chosen to ignore posts by Tarzilman. View it anyway?

Im done arguing with your special brand of insanity. As done as I am with this game lol

Plus; I dont respond to trolls; I report them. But rather obviously the mods have more important things to deal with than MODERATE a troll

Edited by Zephyr Charge, 20 August 2013 - 09:16 PM.

[Lunatic_Asylum]

Disable the third person view by default, and it should be fine.

[Zeus X]

Here is Russ telling you all F*ck you in the nicest possible way.

[Wired]

Lyoto Machida, on 20 August 2013 - 08:51 PM, said:

Man...3PV must be a huge deal in the community if it caused you to make your first post ever as a Founder.

As much as I dislike 3pv, I need to point something out here with this style of argument.

Just because it is his first post as a founder does not mean he is so concerned about this he actually came to make a first post - the same goes for the non founders with a handful of posts. It means that he either used sockpuppet accounts instead of his main account, and the non founder accounts are sock puppets as well.

Posts have been made both ways by such accounts. Consider them trolling and nothing else, and focus instead on having a real discussion on this without the name calling and the rhetoric.

For example, I would like to call attention that 3pv does not meet the stated goal of letting new players learn to orient themselves because it does NOT show the legs of larger mechs, completely invalidating the purpose of 3pv all together. It also does not meet our quality expectations in not providing a tactical advantage, and lacks real disincentive for its use as a tactical tool.

[BR0WN_H0RN3T]

Tragos, on 20 August 2013 - 03:42 PM, said:

Actually it does in this case, Vanguard.

This is a "feature" that can be exploited ESPECIALLY by teams. It doesn't really help you (if you aren't a jumpsniper) - but if you can scout for your team, which is on teamspeak, without being shot at since you are completely in cover it is a major improvement.

That's the crux, right there. Tho, in PGI's defense, they probably didn't think about that. Dunno about you lot but I'm sure looking forward to running my scouts. This will be awesome!!!

[Zephyr Charge]

DCM Zeus, on 20 August 2013 - 09:16 PM, said:

Here is Russ telling you all F*ck you in the nicest possible way.

Isnt that what they said when ECM came out?

[Protection]

[Archon Adam Steiner]

3PV is not going to make a bad player into a good player, nor a great player into some sort of god-mode terror. It isn't. The people who see it fundamentally altering 'the balance of power' or some other such rubbish are over-exaggerating.

The real issue is the optics; PGI said one thing, then did another. One could say they lied, or one could say they simply changed their mind. Both are valid. They did indeed do something they said that they wouldn't, but this is also Beta (whether people want to believe that or not), and many other such instances of 'saying one thing, doing another' have been repeated by developers one-hundred fold and more across scores of online games. What PGI did isn't right, but it isn't unusual. If this change had happened mid 'live' Community Warfare, I'd be grabbing a pitch-fork, too. As it is, it's a disappointment and reason to be skeptical of future promises.

Fundamentally, this is a communication failure on PGI's part - an image problem - and less of a 'game' problem. Let us be honest, the PPC/Gauss meta is a lot more damaging than being able to see a bit more than one used to be able to see.

Edited by Arrachtas, 20 August 2013 - 09:18 PM.

[Ranik Selesky]

Tarzilman, on 20 August 2013 - 09:11 PM, said:

Nothing wrong with that! That's what I said before. It's not ok to treat a community like this, I'm with you at that point!

But, the drone is a first step. They can make it destroyable in a future patch and I personally think, there are great possibilities, y'know? They implemented a drone and there are coming great ideas with it. Am I the only one (or Rathmere and me the only two) who notices the positives?

It's an incomplete and currently completely unbalanced feature implimented entirely too early and in direct contrast to promises from the Devs and in spite of deliberate ignorance by the Devs as to it's ability to be exploited.

I was quite ok with delaying judgement. Until the supreme ignorance that is "we don't see how it confers an advantage" came into play.

Not only were players lied to.... But the Devs are apparently now lieing yet again or are utterly incompetent.

Tarzilman, on 20 August 2013 - 09:13 PM, said:

Whoops, my mistake! I confused your post with one from another child. Sorry mate!

And the insanity that is video game white knights continues. Do you know how many people like you I've seen in now dead games? Probably a hundred or so. Attempting to tar those who are utterly disgusted with the treatment and lies being directed towards them as "Children" is the sure sign of a troll or a white knight dedicated to riding the titanic all the way to the bottom rather than actually trying to save the ship.

So kudo's to your particular sad little brand of thinking.

[Rifter]

To many LIES.

First i stopped playing at xmas when i realized CW wasnt coming 90 days after Open Beta as promised.

Come back a few weeks ago to check assuming CW was in game by now, it wasnt. whatever no big deal now im to the point im not even mad i just laugh it off, i think anyone who has been here since early closed beta is to this point now.


But then.....

IT WAS PROMISED THERE WOOULD BE A SEPARATE QUE FOR FIRST PERSON ONLY.

I have no wish to play this game in third person, its like cheating, hell it IS cheating.

When you can hop in a ECM light run into a hole in the ground/behind a hill/ledge/building/whatever 100% solid cover you want switch to third person and report movements of the enemy team all game WITH NO WAY AT ALL for them to have any idea where you are or be able to target you even if they did know you were there is just..... i cant even express how stupid, especially after telling us we would have separate games with 3pv locked out, because you know we told you this was going to be a really bad idea almost a ******** year ago.


PGI finally went full ******

Im out again, maybe ill come back in another 7-8 months and see if they have fixed this mess by then.

I'll check back once in a few days to see if PGI rememberes they said there would be separate 3PV games and hot patch it in but im not holding my breath, as i said at the beginning of this post, to many lies to be worth my time anymore.

[Killashnikov]

Tarzilman, on 20 August 2013 - 09:11 PM, said:

Nothing wrong with that! That's what I said before. It's not ok to treat a community like this, I'm with you at that point!

But, the drone is a first step. They can make it destroyable in a future patch and I personally think, there are great possibilities, y'know? They implemented a drone and there are coming great ideas with it. Am I the only one (or Rathmere and me the only two) who notices the positives?

Ah but your vision of the drone sadly isn't theirs - they cannot have the drone destructible - that isn't why it is there.

They need 3rd person for reasons that make having it be shot down defeat the point:

How does it help a new player if they walk into a fight in 3rd person only to have the drone shot down and get dumped back into the mech?

If the 3rd person is there because a demographic likes the game in 3rd person mode then they will leave as soon as they realise they loose 3rd person as soon as someone gets in range.

Destructable 3pv will never happen. It cant and still meet the purpose of it's introduction.


I loved that old teaser with the drone identifying the mech approaching - I hoped the UAV would be that. It wasn't. You can see what their implementation of that was.

Edited by Killashnikov, 20 August 2013 - 09:24 PM.

[Protection]

I still remember the early competitive games. The huge risks associated with scouting. Knowing that if I sent my Jenners over that hill to find out what was on the other side, they might not be coming back. I could well be sending my teammates to their deaths on a foolish whim. The weight of those decisions made them real and meaningful to gameplay.

Nope, screw that. Press a button, hug a rock and get all that information and more without having to even approach a cone of fire.

[Zeus X]

Zephyr Charge, on 20 August 2013 - 09:17 PM, said:

Isnt that what they said when ECM came out?

I think they said something similar to the coolant flush too.

So many lies. PGI has really hit rock bottom.

Edited by DCM Zeus, 20 August 2013 - 09:21 PM.

[Zephyr Charge]

Killashnikov, on 20 August 2013 - 09:18 PM, said:

They need 3rd person for reasons that make having it be shot down defeat the point: .

Honestly; you know why they did this? Not because it doesnt give an advantage; but because it does. They realized the ppl that really WANT 3pv wont want if unless they get an advantage out of it.
They really want to cheat and its not fun if you dont have people to cheat.

Pretty simple really

DCM Zeus, on 20 August 2013 - 09:21 PM, said:

I think they said something similar to the coolant flush too. So many lies. PGI has really hit rock bottom.

Just when I think that; the floor breaks away and they fall some more

[Tice Daurus]

Huh, guess I'm done playing MW:O for the entire week until they decide to start listening to us.

[Paewen]

I'm normally the first one to stick up for PGI, you can ask anyone in DHB. But this time, I just can't.

I'm going to give it the week Russ stated in his tweet, and if no resolution based on what they promised us, I'll ask for a refund on my Phoenix pack. I can use the refund for other "things"

The beauty is SC's hangar module kicks off this coming weekend. College starts next week. SC Dogfighting alpha starts in December, so, if I have to end up leaving, I'll hate doing it, but if they can't deliver what they told some of their biggest supporters, why should I continue to support.

[Ranik Selesky]

Protection, on 20 August 2013 - 09:19 PM, said:

I still remember the early competitive games. The huge risks associated with scouting. Knowing that if I sent my Jenners over that hill to find out what was on the other side, they might not be coming back. I could well be sending my teammates to their deaths on a foolish whim. The weight of those decisions made them real and meaningful to gameplay.

Nope, screw that. Press a button, hug a rock and get all that information and more without having to even approach a cone of fire.

This is it really. It's free information from the safety of cover. Camping and poptarting are now going to get even worse and actual assault,flanking and brawling gameplay are going to become liabilities.

To anyone who says that 3PV is ok. I can only point to the mistakes of previous competitive games and how they have suffered from such a simple change of gameplay mechanic.

Tarzilman, on 20 August 2013 - 09:21 PM, said:

Erm, I can just hardly follow you. My english is not the best. But I meant this post and I am not a troll. Well, not now. I just have a different point of view reffering to the 3pv debate but I realy can understand your disappointment reffering to the lies from PGI. Let's calm down now, ok?

Calling someone else (or in this case many people) who has been lied to repeatedly by developers childish and then asking them to calm down is quite reprehensible. Surely you should apologize for your blatant mis-characterization of others valid complaints....