2021 replies to this topic

[Paewen]

Tice Daurus, on 20 August 2013 - 09:25 PM, said:

Huh, guess I'm done playing MW:O for the entire week until they decide to start listening to us.

Tice, I apologize for trying to convince you this wasn't as bad as it seems. I hadn't read Russ's post at that time. I just assumed we would get separate queue's for the next patch. I was wrong!

[repete]

Alright. Finally up to date with the thread, and putting in my original response as opposed to responses to existing posts.

So many others have said what I've wanted to say, so nice to know it's not just me. I'll summarise it as this:

Strike 3. You're out. Game over. Game over man!

So to preempt the question, no you can't haz my stuff.

To others who are leaving MWO as a result of this, my recommendations are:

0) Be polite at all times
1) Post in this thread.
2) Change your sig to indicate as much.
3) Contact members of PGI and IGP on Twitter and Facebook to indicate as much:

@mechwarriorf2p
@russ_bullock
@bryanekman
@pgi_thegarth
@infinitegamepub


4) Contact IGP here and indicate as much: http://infinitegamep....com/contact-us
5) Remove your like of MWO on Facebook
6) Send a refund request to support@mwomercs.com
7) When requesting a refund, request a refund FOR EVERYTHING (Not just the MC you bought last week).
8) Don't give up. This is really it.This is the change/thread we have been waiting for. We've been through the ups and downs since CB. We said if this happened we would leave. Now stick to your principles and the promise you made.

To those who plan on staying but not to pay, here's the problem: You continue to benefit PGI and IGP through being here. They cite your active play in statistics. You are providing content for other players. PGI and IGP understand two figures more than anything else. Income and active player numbers. When both of these nosedive, perhaps they will finally get it. It's too late for me. I'm done. I don't reward this type of behaviour.

Those those saying goodbye/good riddance, I don't care. Time to spend my time and money elsewhere on a company that doesn't treat its players like this.

PS - My email to IPG:
Hello IGP

I am unfortunately writing to inform you that I am no longer playing Mechwarrior Online as a result of the recent third person view changes to the game.

I was a Legendary Founder. I purchased Project Phoenix. I have played in Premium Time for perhaps half of the time I've been playing. I was a positive force for the game in both the real world and online and social media.

Back when third person was said to be coming hell or high water, I and many others said we would leave. This was tempered by the promise from PGI that first person would not have to play against third person. This promise has been shattered and stomped in to the ground. I cannot reward this type of behaviour by continuing to support the game.

Regards
Peter Hamilton

Edited by repete, 22 August 2013 - 07:39 PM.

[abokor]

This is the first time I'm posting on the MWO forums. PGI has blatantly lied to us, regardless of what others coming to their defense might say. Regardless of issues of balance or playerbase segregation the fact remains that PGI has repeatedly and unapologetically lied to their customers. This is a blatant betrayal of customer confidence and is unforgivable. There might be those who would say that's dramatic; I don't agree. I'm just commenting on a sad turn of events.

PGI, you want my 3PV feedback? Sure: Stop lying to your customers. I don't even care how it affects gameplay anymore, because I'm not going to have my trust exploited repeatedly and continue to play your game. Or give you money.

You've just segregated a part of your playerbase even further.

PGI must be desperate to go through with these changes despite what they must have anticipated would result in negative player backlash. Or stupid. I'm hoping desperate, because the alternative is pathetic. Either way, I'm actually a little ashamed that I've spent hundreds of dollars on this game.

[Killashnikov]

Paewen, on 20 August 2013 - 09:27 PM, said:

I'm normally the first one to stick up for PGI, you can ask anyone in DHB. But this time, I just can't.

I'm going to give it the week Russ stated in his tweet, and if no resolution based on what they promised us, I'll ask for a refund on my Phoenix pack. I can use the refund for other "things"

The beauty is SC's hangar module kicks off this coming weekend. College starts next week. SC Dogfighting alpha starts in December, so, if I have to end up leaving, I'll hate doing it, but if they can't deliver what they told some of their biggest supporters, why should I continue to support.

Agreed.

[Zephyr Charge]

Tice Daurus, on 20 August 2013 - 09:25 PM, said:

Huh, guess I'm done playing MW:O for the entire week until they decide to start listening to us.

youll be waitin longer than that lol

[zeninsight]

whyy whyyy.. PGI u fix several thing.. but you broke other ?? whyy whyy ?
case study.. learn from what happen in WOW...
they dumbed down the game to cater the noobs that supposedly will bring back additional revenue to the aging game.. by doing so they pissed off the core player.. now the from 12 mio subscriber down to around 6-7 mio (im also the one that left)
i've said it before and i've said it again whyyy you cater too much for the noobs... there already a jargon invented yearsss ago that called learning curve.... its a bloody natural thing in this univerese.. so just tell the noobs to learn not whine (like they even pay for this game anyway)
refocus your effort, better allocate your resource to deliver a solid game.. you will astray if you cater to all the whiners and noob request ..

[Zephyr Charge]

Ranik Selesky, on 20 August 2013 - 09:28 PM, said:

Surely you should apologize for your blatant mis-characterization of others valid complaints....

lol good luck waiting for THAT
Only adults apologize when wrong.

[Zeus X]

If anyone else wants to read more of the Bullsh!t that Russ is serving, please head over to his twitter.

https://twitter.com/russ_bullock

[Zephyr Charge]

Paewen, on 20 August 2013 - 09:30 PM, said:

Tice, I apologize for trying to convince you this wasn't as bad as it seems. I hadn't read Russ's post at that time. I just assumed we would get separate queue's for the next patch. I was wrong!

are we really surprised by this? He said in his regarding 3rd person thread that he became a 3pv fanboi because he got tired of arguing and caved.

[MischiefSC]

vijil, on 20 August 2013 - 08:08 PM, said:

I'm a marketing guy. I know marketing. It's what I do.

Marketing is about target markets, segments, and tailoring products to those segments. It's about making sure the segment or niche you're aiming at is big enough to be worthwhile, and then budget and develop accordingly.

When you make a sim mech game, you are aiming at a rather specific target audience. It's not the same audience as a game like Mechassault or Hawken. You are not aiming at the mass market of teenage console gamers and casual players. You are not aiming at the elderly, toddlers or girly girls either for that matter. You are aiming at mech sim players.

If that mech sim player market isn't big enough, that's your problem and will most likely result in the end of the product. You can dumb things down, but that is unlikely to work. Typically it has two effects - one, it'll decrease your appeal to the core market. Two, it wont properly gain the acceptance of the masses because the core game is still a relatively complex sim. Short of a complete rework you end up with no market and few sales, a mistake countless films and games (and many, many products) have made purely because they started with a niche and tried to expand beyond what their product was capable of. Happens all the time when big money execs or committees end up in charge.

If the market is too small and you aren't making enough money from MWO, it's too late now. Eject, sell up, get out while you still can. Dumbing it down wont fix anything. If you wanted mass market, you should have made a mass market game.

And IF (a big if) you actually know what you're doing here and are confident that there are enough players to have a hardcore mode separate to the main mode, this was exactly the wrong way to handle it. Hardcore mode should be enabled prior to dumbing down the rest of the game. That way you could avoid most of these shenanigans.

EXACTLY.

I've done consulting work in the marketing field (well, contracts that last for months/years, training sales and customer facing staff, etc) and this sort of stuff is just painful. It's the damn 'grass is always greener' thing. Some exec has what he thinks is an 'a-ha' moment, in this case Russ saw some kids at a game con walk away from his demo and erroneously translated this into teeming masses of teen casual gamers with credit cards full of money who really, really want to play MWO but couldn't get a handle on movement in 30 seconds and moved on due to a lack of gimped 3PV.

That's not how it works. PGI created and sold the concept of a product in order to pre-fund the product itself. We're now literally millions of dollars into it and only a month away from product delivery and.... they want to change the nature of the product because of one out of context anecdotal experience?

A friend of mine calls this 'doubling down on the stupid'. Someone has a bad idea, bounces it around and gets nothing but negative feedback, then decides that the problem is that nobody appreciates how brilliant it is and doubles down on it, resulting in something that went from bad to worse.

I get that there's probably a lot more to this. Buying a license from Microsoft isn't cheap - they probably have one of Bryans children locked in a room with a threat to sell him into white slavery if it doesn't hit certain metrics and those metrics are not getting met. We're creeping up on a year since it went public and maybe EBITDA isn't on target or subs are too low or whatever the target was isn't met. They may not have a sell up option - this may have been an all-in for PGI. There's no telling. Maybe it's unrelated but the decision making process of late seems to be skewing towards the 'throw it at the wall and see what sticks' variety common in projects running down to the wire.

What we can say though is that this was a terrible idea that was terribly implemented. I've never seen anyone successfully roll out a service product (which F2P is) update/overhaul with the premise of 'I know this is exactly what you told us you didn't want or pay for but it's what you're getting. You'll love it anyway, maybe in a month or two we'll change it.'

It's junior grade bad. I've listened to a call where in the horribly expensive aftermath of a decision like that the person in charge of cleaning up jokingly offered to let everyone listen to him beat the guy who pushed it through with a chair if we'd just let it go and move on.

I realize that I'm on the consumer side of the window here and know nothing about the events that led to this decision but I just can't help but try to understand what process failure led to this seeming like a good idea and if anyone even realizes what sort of a mistake it is and is collecting data to resolve it.

You just can't get away with selling an incomplete product to people based on a promise of improvements later in the cycle and then lie to them, repeatedly, in the development cycle. It's just... ugh. I just can't wrap my head around it.

[Ranik Selesky]

Tarzilman, on 20 August 2013 - 09:36 PM, said:

Let me think about it.... no. I won't do that. I may understand the anger caused by PGI's dishonest kind of treatening the community. But I won't understand such an overreaction caused by writing down my opinion. If someone here doesn't share it, fine, his or her damn rights. But what happens here, imho is simply too much and even too much. And posting a screenshot of the "uninstall succesfull" window is childish.

Flacidly attacks others for showing their discontent at very real and very dishonest actions of the developers. Calls others childish.

Refuses to apologize.

And the small child get's added to the ignore list. Where he belongs.

[Deathlike]

Here's a sad reality... if "nobody" complains during that week before "calming down"... they'll leave the changes in place AS IS.

I've wondered often why the mechanics of Assault and Conquest don't change (other than the rewards aspects) and founders have said "it was a placeholder" or something along those lines.

Well... they still are practically same at least as long as I've played the game and let's be honest.. they are here to stay... (although Conquest is not remotely lucrative at all now due to the recent C-bills nerf). Until PGI gets this clearly spelled out for them that this is wrong... they will keep the status quo. That has been PGI's track record, and they will continue to revisit stuff that they have said won't be implemented... because the cold hard following that some of you play this game for has no impact unless you stop giving PGI money and stop playing. It's that simple.

[80Bit]

Tried 3pv. Mildly amusing, not very tactically useful. Gives you a slight ability to peak and around low cover at the cost of giving away your position.

Add a 30 second cooldown to switching views, and all will be good.

[Zeus X]

Here is Paul telling the community f*ck you in the nicest possible way.

Edited by DCM Zeus, 20 August 2013 - 09:43 PM.

[Tice Daurus]

Paewen, on 20 August 2013 - 09:30 PM, said:

Tice, I apologize for trying to convince you this wasn't as bad as it seems. I hadn't read Russ's post at that time. I just assumed we would get separate queue's for the next patch. I was wrong!

Paewen, when we talked about this, I'm STILL in some small tiny way, PRAYING that PGI will wake up tomorrow, drink some coffee, sit back, think long and hard and how upset the community really is at the moment, and make an about face and offer the MW:O community an apology for dropping the ball and do what's right and fix this mess. Even if they take the entire week and then put in 1PV in next week, I'm somewhat ok with it. But they need to fix this soon and I mean NOW. And for the rest of the people reading this post, I need your support in showing PGI that we are united in thought regarding what the true issue really is...

http://mwomercs.com/...et-flamed-here/

Go here. POST YOUR THOUGHTS and most importantly, POST A LIKE on the threadpost above to show them we mean business.

Edited by Tice Daurus, 20 August 2013 - 09:43 PM.

[Protection]

Protection, on 20 August 2013 - 06:54 PM, said:

>Blatantly steeling screenshots from /vg/




I still remember the early competitive games. The huge risks associated with scouting. Knowing that if I sent my Jenners over that hill to find out what was on the other side, they might not be coming back. I could well be sending my teammates to their deaths on a foolish whim. The weight of those decisions made them real and meaningful to gameplay.

Nope, screw that. Press a button, hug a rock and get all that information and more without having to even approach a cone of fire.

I'm going to go into the old ELP files (of which I'm no longer a member) and dig up an old game from the very first Run Hot Or Die Tournament. Game 1 of ELP versus Jade Wolves - a game that many of our team still consider to be one of the very best we ever played.

------------------------------------------------

Eridani Light Pony vs Jade Wolf

"Dangerous at Both Ends, and Crafty in the Middle"

A back and forth struggle with nonstop intense action, and some cunning and risky plays by both teams. All three of the matches could easily have tipped the other way, but fortune favoured the bold in each of the respective matches.

Round the First: "Borrowing a Page"

Frozen City

Ponies on High Side (two cave entrance), Wolves on Low Side (one cave entrance)

Ponies funnel into the caves, prepping for an all out cave rush, sending the Jenners around to the side to scout ahead. Jenners call for full abort, as Jade Wolf has already organized into a firing line, with vision from the dropship ridge to the caves. Pony forces pull back, and the two teams enter into a long range sniper war, with the occasional glancing blow from PPCs or Gauss. PureNo tries a risky play in his Jenner, ends up getting tackled deep near the Pony heavy mechs, but gets away with only modest damage. Neither team has a definite advantage, both waiting for the other to make the first move. Window darts across the dropship, but PureNo is too good, tackles him and Window is down - giving the Wolves a 1-0 lead with less than 5 minutes to go, and sitting comfortably in a fortified position. Ponies split up their forces and make a charge. Two Atlai and a Catapult pour out from the caves, Jenners and Hunchbacks storm the ridge, and others move up from the ravine. Centagon guns down Protection, but the firing line is suddenly surrounded on all sides, Pony Atlai Stimbles and Zylo take down the Wolf Assaults, giving the Ponies the weight advantage. Wolf Jenners take down a Hunchback and Catapult, but the Pony Atlai grind down the Wolves to only two Jenners. With all four remaining Pony Mechs on the Wolf base, the Jenners are forced to try and defend, but don't have the time for hit and runs, and are gradually shot down by Rextale, the Pony fast Hunchie.

Result: Light Pony Victory. 8-4 Elimination.

----------------------------------------------------

Jenner scouting absolutely defined this game for both teams. Jade Wolves were the better snipers, by far, and arguably even the better team. We might've been the better brawlers (at the time, anyhow), but we needed an opportunity to close in. Without the extreme high risk scouting, nothing in this game would have happened the way it did. It was extremely close and every decision was costly and even painful. My heart was in my mouth when Window went down and the clock was ticking away.

And the second game, Jade Wolf won by faking the same tactic then rushing for the base, and got away with it because we failed to scout adequately that round.

In the current game mode, none of this would ever happen and all of that scouting would be irrelevant and wouldn't matter. We'd know enemy locations and positions without ever being susceptible to attack, and we could all just take turns cover shooting and remaining dormant until the clock winds down.

3PV is a castration of game depth and strategy. It has no place in this game.

[Zephyr Charge]

DCM Zeus, on 20 August 2013 - 09:36 PM, said:

If anyone else wants to read more of the Bullsh!t that Russ is serving, please head over to his twitter. https://twitter.com/russ_bullock

Kinda wonder if they see a drop in players if they'll do something

[Your Friend Mr Rogers]

Everyone who is complaining is complaining for the sake of complaining. I have played multiple games now after the patch, and third person view has literally changed nothing in the way the game is played. SO PEOPLE STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT NOTHING I KNOW IT SEEMS A POPULAR THING TO DO ON THIS FORUM, BUT PLEASE STOP IT. No one even ******* uses it!!!! I can only watch people complain about nothing for so long then I let it all out. All they did was add a very benign feature that does nothing. People will say if it is benign then why did they add it. I don't know, but who gives a ****. All i use for is to admire my mech for maybe the first 5 SECONDS OF THE GAME.

[Zephyr Charge]

Ranik Selesky, on 20 August 2013 - 09:38 PM, said:

Flacidly attacks others for showing their discontent at very real and very dishonest actions of the developers. Calls others childish. Refuses to apologize. And the small child get's added to the ignore list. Where he belongs.

Me too; dont give him attention. Its what children (and trolls) like him seek most.

[Zephyr Charge]

Tice Daurus, on 20 August 2013 - 09:42 PM, said:

Paewen, when we talked about this, I'm STILL in some small tiny way, PRAYING that PGI will wake up tomorrow, drink some coffee, sit back, think long and hard and how upset the community really is at the moment, and make an about face and offer the MW:O community an apology for dropping the ball and do what's right and fix this mess. Even if they take the entire week and then put in 1PV in next week, I'm somewhat ok with it. But they need to fix this soon and I mean NOW. And for the rest of the people reading this post, I need your support in showing PGI that we are united in thought regarding what the true issue really is... http://mwomercs.com/...et-flamed-here/ Go here. POST YOUR THOUGHTS and most importantly, POST A LIKE on the threadpost above to show them we mean business.

Yeah... #saveMWO have been trying that for weeks

This post is hidden because you have chosen to ignore posts by Tarzilman. View it anyway?

Hi again child I cant see

Edited by Zephyr Charge, 20 August 2013 - 09:50 PM.