2021 replies to this topic

[Reno Blade]

Orzorn, on 20 August 2013 - 03:23 PM, said:

So them knowing where one mech is (And not know what mech it is) and me potentially seeing their entire team and also seeing all of their mechs is balanced?

RedDragon, on 20 August 2013 - 03:27 PM, said:

This. Get a scout, drive it to the enemy, park it behind an obstacle and identify their whole team while they can't do sh*t about it. Wohoo, they can see a drone above that hill, so what?

And apart from this, for those who say "You can switch to 1st if you don't like it": But I can't switch off those ridiculous drones flying above my team mates and enemies. I want to play MW, not Unreal Tournament.

Whos fault is it that all of the enemy team is visible and easy to spot together?

Whos fault is it if the team uses that said single mech to spot the other team while the other team does not?

Whos fault would it be if one team only uses small lasers on all of their mechs while the other team does use all the weapons available?

You can even use the drone as bait to lure people in.
Or you stay in 1pv, take 3-4 lights and hunt the spotter down instantly (with help of tactics, or seismic) without beeing seen, because you don't have a blinking drone over your head.

DisasterMedic, on 20 August 2013 - 03:24 PM, said:

Phew, for a second there I was worried that PGI had alienated all of the white knights. Good to know some people will still ignore reality alongside the devs they must keep appeased in order to maintain their "secret squirrel" status.

Thanks for your support.

[focuspark]

I don't like it, I don't like it, I don't... actually I don't care.

One ask: if I can see their drone when they're behind a hill (which means they can see me coming) please make sure I can target them with LRM fire.

[Tomman]

My Lord,

A bunch of people so pissed off at an annoyance. I dropped solo, in a 3 man, in a 4 man and yes in a 12 man organized drop today... guess what.... NO ONE USED 3PV! that is right NO ONE. The view sucks the mechanics of the game suck in 3pv and you can't aim... It is not even very effective at looking over hills or around corners.

Should it be in a game when we were promised it would not be here... well, that is a moot point now.

Is it game breaking easy spy mode the QQ's are calling it... NO.

What is more, if not one uses it does it matter if it is there? NO!

[sC4r]

i tried a few games and i gotta say you did a good job on this one

the provided sight bonus is minimal compared to the drawbacks... the only one time where you get a major advantage in this is while hugging some smaller building/rock other than that your aim will suffer for using 3pv

so im happy i can take a look at my mech but other than that i dont think ill use it over 1pv

[Rebas Kradd]

More than 90% of the people claiming they're quitting probably won't, and will just quietly keep on playing in 1PV. I don't buy that they're willing to dump a game on principle that's been enjoyable enough to keep them around this long.

I am leery about how PGI manages to keep changing stances, though. As much as those decisions are claimed to be midstream reversals, it's too open to the interpretation that PGI never planned to make the changes in the first place.

Edited by Rebas Kradd, 20 August 2013 - 03:51 PM.

[Icedman]

I'm glad that you guys "... quickly realised that 3PV offered no significant advantage over 1PV. In fact we found each mode had pros and cons that played well with each other. This revelation changed our initial 3PV plans and we postponed Hardcore mode (separate queues for 1PV and 3PV), in favor of rethinking the idea and offering up a different solution that also addressed a few more community wish list items. (Source)" Except for the minor point that one of the MAIN THINGS the community wanted to happen was what you PROMISED, but I guess since you said it would never be an issue, we didn't formally request it:


(Source)


Oh also... you have a terrible track record for actually KNOWING what the changes you make in the game will actually do. Kind of taken aback by this blatant 180 here.

Don't say things you don't mean. Once you say them, do them. If you think you may go a different way, don't promise an implementation you know you may not deliver. It's just wrong and horrible business practice.

Edited by Icedman, 20 August 2013 - 03:49 PM.

[Kunae]

Profiteer, on 20 August 2013 - 03:44 PM, said:

LOL

Have you actually tried playing the game in 3PV?

It's balls.

Even with the ability to see around cover better, it's still not worth it.

Just equip seismic and stick in 1st person.

It's best if you actually read a whole thread before responding to one of the early posts in it.

[Vanguard319]

Thuzel, on 20 August 2013 - 03:38 PM, said:

Lol, really?

So you're argument is that 3pv doesn't help you because, despite the huge sections the FOV does allow you to watch (approximately 120 degrees), there's a tiny 20 degree chunk that you still can't quite see.

Yeah, you may be able to see in those areas, but if there's a group of mechs at the foot of that tower, and even within a certain distance of that tower, that Spider is blind to it. He may have seismic, but he still cannot identify the mechs, let alone spot missiles for his team mates.As far as viewing objects in 3-space, that is a sizable chunk of your vision. Also, Farpenoodle has pointed out that the infamous screenshot is an anomaly and possibly an exploit.

[Deux]

has anyone else noticed that for 23 pages it we the players that have been posting?? why isnt pgi on here posting every 5th post to answer our questions talk about the problems? if you are going to implament a system like this that has created so much friction in your game then i suggest you get on here and face the firing squad. Rather then make one post and hide away again. WE THE PLAYERS are the ones here talking about this arguing with each other here...get in here guys and start talking to us the ppl who are helping you to make this game.

[Joseph Mallan]

LaserAngel, on 20 August 2013 - 03:27 PM, said:

Castle Mallanhold now flies a different banner.

there are times to be polite, and there are times to be blunt. My banner has not changed, My wording has. I can play BattleTech Online as well as I can play MechWarrior Online. 3PV is exactly like playing TT. I can see the map and where the enemy is it is a stupid idea to allow it's use in a single que. To tell us for months it would be separate then to put it in an say we think it's fine! I gave the benefit when Coolant flush came out, It was what it was. A lie to us. I give everyone one pass. PGI Used it with Flush.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 20 August 2013 - 03:49 PM.

[Lugh]

Terrible 3pv is already allowing me to shoulder mount weapons and shoot without risk.

[LowSubmarino]

So far I don't like 3pv.

This has prolly been mentioned a lot already but what really annoys me is that:

- my crosshair suddenly jumps (adjusting to new distances) when I am trying to snipe over ridges
- while jump jetting with my victor I cant aim properly. The mechs upper body blocks my line of sight

Don't know if this will be changed or fixed any time soon but I wish I could just play 1pv again...

[Vassago Rain]

Here are my thoughts.

Your third person is terrible, and does none of the things you initially set out to have it accomplish. For instance, you can't see the legs, so it's no help for the invisible google+ audience, who apparently can't figure out torsos and legs.

I wanted to type some more, but this one point's enough. If you're gonna do something, do it right. If you can't do it right, don't do it to begin with. Despite the awfulness of 3rd person, it still manages to completely break the game. You only need to switch to it when you want to look around corners.

I believe you had a plan, or at least a framework of a plan, but it's completely fallen on its face.

[Shumabot]

Joseph Mallan, on 20 August 2013 - 03:49 PM, said:

there are times to be polite, and there are times to be blunt. My banner has not changed, My wording has. I can play BattleTech Online as well as I can play MechWarrior Online. 3PV is exactly like playing TT. I can see the map and where the enemy is it is a stupid idea to allow it's use in a single que. To tell us for months it would be separate then to make put it in an say we think it's fine! I gave the benefit when Coolant flush came out, It was what it was. A lie to us. I give everyone one pass. PGI Used it with Flush.

AND YET TWO MONTHS AGO YOU DEFENDED DIRECTLY LIFTING ALL MECHANICS FROM THE TT AND DEPOSITING THEM INTO A BAD COUNTERSTRIKE RIPOFF! SO WHAT? NOW YOU DON'T WANT THEM TO DO THAT?

This is the best, my day was already pretty good and this is just maximum schadenfreude and watching sycophants squirm off the hook.

[Lloathe]

I really, really hate being right all the time. I called this back when they tried to tell us that oh, the community will agree with us that how we are implimenting 3PV will not be broken at all! They will just love it! Sigh. I need to stop playing jumanji and burn my prophet robes.

PGI support will be getting an email soon to request a refund of the phoneix package.

I have a few words of advice for PGI before I stop following these forums.

1. Implement carrion crow's gyro stabilization and ecm changes for movement and electronic warfare.
2. Hire homelesbill, give him a house, lots of pizza and mtn dew and just bloody let him fix the weapon balancing. Seriously, he could do it by himself. I'd say give him alcohol but hold that off untill he fixes the weapons. (targeting computer overload system)
3. Leave the 3PV to the training mode and to the training mode only.

Last and most importantly, don't lie to the community anymore. Just don't do it.

[Corvus Antaka]

seriuosly how many of you have actually tried playing an entire match in 3PV and found it BENEFICIAL to play the entire match like this? I cant even handle more than 30 seconds in 3PV and with no arm twist your at a real disadvantage. jumpsniping is also neigh impossible since the reticule shakes and your mech blocks the crosshair when falling.

[Teeboy]

as childish as this may seem.. I quit!

let me know when you remove 3rd person view and I will start playing again.

Good luck with your game!!!

[Chaosdrive]

Quote

we quickly realised that 3PV offered no significant advantage over 1PV. In fact we found each mode had pros and cons that played well with each other.

So, here is my feedback with this in mind.

1) You can, in fact, still use 3rd person view to peak around a corner without exposing your mech, you can also still see over objects you wouldn't be able to otherwise.

2) You can freely switch between first and third person view, this makes my first point stand out a lot as I can simply switch to it, see the enemy teams locations and relay them to my entire team all whilst safely behind cover - Sure, they could see the little LED drone if they paid attention however they can't fire at me nor get a lock - I also don't need to stay in third person view for more than a few seconds to see the enemy team so it could easily be missed.

3) It's hardly friendly to new players, I can't see where I'm aiming because my head is in the way, my aiming cross-hair does all sorts of weird things when going over the smallest bumps and, to top it all off, I can barely see the tops of my legs.

4) To build on point 3, the third person view supporters are going to be demanding buffs or ragequitting as the third person view functions horribly for what it does and feels like it only exists for corner-peeking and seeing over the tops of low hills/mountains however you can't buff it without further alienating a lot of your current stakeholders in the pursuit of new ones.

Overall I have to stay that your continuous inability to provide the current player base with what they want whilst chasing potential numbers of players (Which, just to point out, you are not guaranteed to get) is eventually going to drive off your core playerbase until your main way of making money is from the players who play a few times, buy a couple of mech's because trials suck then quit.

You would do so so so much better if instead you were offering players something to drive for, a reason to play other than dropping on the same maps repeatedly for no reason other than to buy that next mech, if you had some kind of solid core community constantly battling not just for their own gains but for their corp/clan's gains as well then not only would you see an influx of players but the quality of those players would also improve, many would want to get better to further the goals they have set themselves and to assist their community in whatever way they could.

Honestly, when community warfare comes, the game is either really going to kick off or fail. Horribly. No amount of appealing to the masses right now is going to change that - Especially when the game still has no overlaying goal.

I really hope the game does do well, even with the current iteration of third person view being so easily abused whilst also being fairly unhelpful to new players however if you muck up clan warfare or bend over backwards to please third person players (Read: Turning MWO into a TPS complete with corner peaking, looking over hills and lining up shots before seeing the target at the lowest to the highest levels of competitive play) then I will have no reason to play.

You can warp the game however you please, as long as it is enjoyable and balanced however you do need to be very careful about your next few moves, lest you manage to ruin mechwarrior.

On a side note: This post is going to get buried by the replies to this thread, which makes me sad really, there have already been ~50 posts written in the time it took me to write this. My only real hope is my thinking that somewhere somebody actually reads this and agrees with at least some of the points. Oh, and the hope that community warfare is worth the wait.

[Rashhaverak]

Okay, so I am forced to agree that Bryan did promise that people would not be forced to play in 1PV with people playing in 3PV. It is true that he posted that, and it is true that as of today, if you want to play, your stuck with the possibility of playing against people using 3PV. That is the truth.

However, it is also the truth that actually playing in 3PV provides so many disadvantages from 1PV that I can't grant any of those expressing outrage any real legitimacy. Sure, you have a wider field of view. The time delay to switch, coupled with the locking of targeting reticles, minimap and other tactical information loss is so handicapping that I find it questionable that anyone can honestly say it gives an advantage worth exploiting.

Demanding that the developers cannot change their minds is unreasonable. There is not one person among us who has not reversed a decision we've made, and for good reason. If we had to live to the letter with every decision we each made, with no recourse to consider better alternatives, then we'd live in a very miserable and broken world. It's called learning from your mistakes, and it's healthy.

I think that the implementation of 3PV is fine, and for that matter, I don't give two cents if my opponents use it. In fact, I consider myself to be at an advantage if they do! If someone can win as the result of using 3PV to some tactical advantage I would be outright amazed.

If hardcore functions before launch, then I will also consider that the intent of Bryan's statements regarding 3PV vs 1PV to also have been met A couple of weeks stomping 3PVs in Beta test is not a big deal.

Edited by Rashhaverak, 20 August 2013 - 04:22 PM.

[Mizore]

So, I'm really really disapointed PGI!!!

First you said, there never ever will be a 3rd person view... then you told us, there will be a 3rd person view, but there will also be a 1st person only mode... and now you're telling us, there won't be a 1st Person only mode at all?
Really? Are you nuts?

You lied to us... more than once.
I really liked the game from the beginning, but after a year full of lies, really bad balancing and a totally bad communication with the community... I'm sooooo disapointed!

Wanna have feedback?

This mixture between 1PV and 3PV is ********!

positive thinks about 3PV:
+ you can see the camo of your mech

negative things about 3PV:
- can peek around corners without beeing able to get shot
- motion sickness
- can't see the legs on most mechs
- unfair switching between 1PV and 3PV
- no possibility to play 1PV only
- not helpful for new players

PGI, give us our promised 1PV only!
And please before release!
Otherwise this will be the deathsentence for competetive 12 vs 12 matches.

Edited by Mizore, 20 August 2013 - 03:59 PM.