123 replies to this topic

[Zphyr]

I wonder why some people believe that we can't go 3PV for 10s, relay enemy position, numbers and composition then return to fight in 1st. In those seconds, yes, there is a blinking fairy that may or may not inform the enemy that someone is there. But as soon as our friendly mechwarrior returns to 1st person... well, he is safely full of intel and invisible once again, ready to kick behinds. Why would anyone assume that most would stay in 3PV the entire game is beyond my sleepy little brain.

The problem is this extra information not having a real drawback. This won't hurt those that know how to play as they will not fight in the movement and minimap restricted 3PV. But you know who will surfer the most? Poor new players. Those who, according to our dear developers should be the ones that need this the most. Yes, they can (also) see a bit more (just not legs), but the restriction will cost them a lot.

I am not against 3PV, specially if it may get us more players. I doubt many would say no if there is believable proof that it may work. We are here because we care enough, hate it or not, we care. Else we would just leave in silence to never return - the majority of the total players. But as it is, this and many other "candies" are nothing but a mess. It is like they wish well but have no idea what they are doing... and often fail in what they have the duty to know, as professionals.

[Mazzyplz]

VXJaeger, on 21 August 2013 - 03:20 AM, said:

I just wonder what kinda medicine devs use to prevent going suicidal after reading this forum.

i certainly hope it's a placebo or at least homeopathic

[Maarve]

Considering the ammout off terribads that play this **** im not surprised theres a good amount of people advocating 3pv .

The funniest thing is , on anything larger than a medium you cant see the legs , and with no minimap to see where your legs are in relation to your torso its actualy harder to navigate ur mech around in 3pv which I believe was the point in adding it in the first place ... PGI realy are total ***** .

Edited by Maarvelous, 21 August 2013 - 11:29 PM.

[ryoma]

yay forum graveyard

[Vellinious]

No Guts No Glory, on 21 August 2013 - 01:03 AM, said:

I suggest you actually spend time playing in 3rd person beyond the 2 seconds to screenshot this "advantage".

You'd notice the reticle tends to bounce around, and depending on the terrain it gets wonky as ****. Forced armlock, no minimap.

3rd person gives an advantage to spatial awareness.

1st gives an advantage to gunnery.

Stop being babbies, people who prefered 1PV did just fine dealing with people in 3PV in MW4 where the only disadvantage to 3PV was at pointblank ranges.


Also just like groups respond to QQ about premades with "TS is available to everyone to use, so it's not an advantage." 3rd person is available to everyone to use, so it's not an advantage.

For a community of players who always tell "bads" to adapt, maybe you should take your own advice.

Nobody is saying you should actually SHOOT while in 3rd person. You obviously haven't read ANYTHING that any of us have said. The ridge humpers will use 3pv to peek over the hills, find out where the easiest, most open target is, get lined up to minimize aiming when jumping, switch back to 1pv, initiate the jump and pop you. Trust me when I say, MW4 was a poptarting mess for this very reason....

The good players will use this....and they'll make the beginning players wish they had never hit the launch button.

[Ensaine]

SirLANsalot, on 20 August 2013 - 11:37 PM, said:

nice doctoring up a screen shot to prove your "point".


Heres another good question. How often dose that happen during the course of a game? Not very, Radar or your allies there with BAP could tell you the SAME THING you are seeing right there.

Really? Here ya go........or you can just click on the link in my sig.


1PV:




Now, same spot, didn't touch my mouse, or movement keys, just hit F4, toggling 3PV:



The OP's pics are NOT doctored.

Edited by Ensaine, 22 August 2013 - 07:36 AM.

[Nightcrept]

I've used 3pv a few times in games already to see from behind cover. It allows me to lessen the chances of getting ambushed.
It also lets me watch the enemy and engage when and how I want without risking getting hit.

It also allows me to know when or if they decide to rush me before they are actually in my face.

Overall being able to change between the two modes at will in game is a major advantage.

[tuffy963]

[Deathlike]

I wish I knew how to do the video.. but the screenshot will do my thousand word essay for me:



"Results" of the match:



Although, I don't think it changed the outcome of the match too much, but, can you spot the # of mechs in that 3PV view? Yea.. it's more than the fact that they know where I am.

[Desdain]

ryoma, on 21 August 2013 - 01:11 AM, said:

This is only a problem because it goes against several promises from the devs including

-That 3PV is going to be implemented in a manner that doesn't give a tactical advantage
-That we could choose not to play in a 3PV queue
-That players who wanted to play MWO as a sim wouldn't get shafted

As it is now, you have to use 3PV and swap to be competitive. The 1PV queues are disabled and PGI seems reluctant to give them to us.

This is worse than the last "position at the time" fiasco.

TL;DR: PGI lied, people closed wallets.

And it's actually worse than just this. PGI says they did this to help new players. This is to justify the dedication of resources to developing 3PV as opposed to some other feature like CW. What they really wanted was to expand their player base (and income) by providing 3PV as an EZ-mode for casual players. This fiasco has lot in common with the 'New Game Experience' that the SWG devs did.

[ackstorm]

OMG he can see stuff that he can't fire at! What a horrible exploit!

[Protection]

ackstorm, on 22 August 2013 - 06:55 PM, said:

OMG he can see stuff that he can't fire at! What a horrible exploit!

Yes, because now scouting involves no risk. You can gather information without ever having to enter a field of fire.

Also, actually watch some of the videos -- there's plenty of examples of weapons fire in 3rd person that wouldn't have been possible in 1st person.

[ackstorm]

Protection, on 22 August 2013 - 07:02 PM, said:

Yes, because now scouting involves no risk. You can gather information without ever having to enter a field of fire.

Also, actually watch some of the videos -- there's plenty of examples of weapons fire in 3rd person that wouldn't have been possible in 1st person.

Do you have evidence proving that he can actually Target mechs this way? Being able to see them is one thing, but your mech is still behind a barrier which should prevent your sensors from targeting them. That means no tech armament info, no callsigns, etc. You can get that same information by simply peeking around a corner for 2 seconds before they notice you, and the data provided really doesn't do much for the team other than "I see a few atlases in lower city" which again, can be gathered just as easily be a scout without being noticed in first person view.

note: Also remember there is a probe flying behind and above you that can be spotted by the enemy.

Edited by ackstorm, 23 August 2013 - 12:42 PM.

[Deathlike]

ackstorm, on 23 August 2013 - 12:29 PM, said:

Do you have evidence proving that he can actually Target mechs this way? Being able to see them is one thing, but your mech is still behind a barrier which should prevent your sensors from targeting them. That means no tech armament info, no callsigns, etc. You can get that same information by simply peeking around a corner for 2 seconds before they notice you, and the data provided really doesn't do much for the team other than "I see a few atlases in lower city" which again, can be gathered just as easily be a scout without being noticed in first person view.

When I have occasionally played in 3PV in a light, I've accumulated odd spotting assists that I normally would NOT get in 1PV. The FOV in 3PV extends how much I see, making the spotting assist significantly easier to acquire.

[ackstorm]

Deathlike, on 23 August 2013 - 12:36 PM, said:

When I have occasionally played in 3PV in a light, I've accumulated odd spotting assists that I normally would NOT get in 1PV. The FOV in 3PV extends how much I see, making the spotting assist significantly easier to acquire.

Can I get some screen shots of you with targeting boxes on those mechs while your mech remains behind a barrier that taller than the mech's cockpit?

Actually that kind of evidence is going to be hard to get, because if someone else is targeting them you might get a box just because of them and not your line of sight.

[Lugh]

VXJaeger, on 20 August 2013 - 11:43 PM, said:

3PV works both ways u see, those drones are nice target markers and visible miles away

And there are many maps were you cannot see the drone because it's concealed by a smoke column that the drone user can see OVER but you can't see through...

[William Knight]

ackstorm, on 23 August 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:

Can I get some screen shots of you with targeting boxes on those mechs while your mech remains behind a barrier that taller than the mech's cockpit? Actually that kind of evidence is going to be hard to get, because if someone else is targeting them you might get a box just because of them and not your line of sight.

Targeting isn't improved in 3pv, but being able to see where the enemy is will effect a drop commanders tactics in any organised unit.

[Kes Moreau]

lame.

[Xeno Phalcon]

ackstorm, on 22 August 2013 - 06:55 PM, said:

OMG he can see stuff that can't fire at him! What a horrible exploit!

Fixed for you, your welcome.

[Deathlike]

ackstorm, on 23 August 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:

Can I get some screen shots of you with targeting boxes on those mechs while your mech remains behind a barrier that taller than the mech's cockpit?

Actually that kind of evidence is going to be hard to get, because if someone else is targeting them you might get a box just because of them and not your line of sight.

That's not exactly what happens. The 1PV FOV is kinda limited to what your cockpit can see. The problem is that 3PV "adds" more stuff around due to its greater FOV and catches mechs I can see with LOS, but wouldn't be able to see w/o freelook in 1PV. It does the automatic version of freelook w/o actually doing it.