123 replies to this topic

[KharnZor]

Galen Crayn, on 21 August 2013 - 02:35 AM, said:

Russ Bullock said in twitter: Showing me a picture that displays more of a view is not the smoking gun. I want to know if people using it can actually kill, dmg, win more

And he is right. This picture only shows an atlas watching a battle scene. Nothing more. He doesnt shoot better, has not more armor, he only has a better view. Will he kill more than without 3rd PV? I doubt it... So what?

Seriously? Even with the evidence put before you still don't understand? wow

[SiriusBeef]

Let's say it's a bad idea to alienate your paying customers.

[Deathlike]

KharnZor, on 21 August 2013 - 06:54 AM, said:

Seriously? Even with the evidence put before you still don't understand? wow

TBH, I expect a complete video of how to exploit 3PV effectively needs to be created in short order... preferably an entire record of a match so people don't get the silly idea that the thing was altered in any way.

That is how you get PGI's attention... video proof so they look like "geniuses" for deploying 3PV AS IS.

[Mechteric]

@OP: Those enemies... they know you're there. If they're any good they'll smack you when you walk around that corner.

Deathlike, on 21 August 2013 - 06:59 AM, said:

TBH, I expect a complete video of how to exploit 3PV effectively needs to be created in short order... preferably an entire record of a match so people don't get the silly idea that the thing was altered in any way.

That is how you get PGI's attention... video proof so they look like "geniuses" for deploying 3PV AS IS.

That I can accept, if someone can beyond a reasonable doubt prove something. But I tell you right now, unless its because the drone isn't properly visible to the enemy, I'm afraid its going to be for naught.

[FupDup]

CapperDeluxe, on 21 August 2013 - 07:03 AM, said:

@OP: Those enemies... they know you're there. If they're any good they'll smack you when you walk around that corner.



That I can accept, if someone can beyond a reasonable doubt prove something. But I tell you right now, unless its because the drone isn't properly visible to the enemy, I'm afraid its going to be for naught.

When using FPV, you need to stick your neck out--therefore exposing your mech to the enemy--and potentially get shot at in order to see the battlefield.

When using 3PV, the enemy sees a blinky little Red Tinkerbell™ and can't shoot at you or identify your mech.



I'd call that an upgrade.

Edited by FupDup, 21 August 2013 - 07:06 AM.

[KharnZor]

Deathlike, on 21 August 2013 - 06:59 AM, said:

TBH, I expect a complete video of how to exploit 3PV effectively needs to be created in short order... preferably an entire record of a match so people don't get the silly idea that the thing was altered in any way.

That is how you get PGI's attention... video proof so they look like "geniuses" for deploying 3PV AS IS.

We need to make this happen.

[Chrithu]

SirLANsalot, on 20 August 2013 - 11:37 PM, said:

nice doctoring up a screen shot to prove your "point".


Heres another good question. How often dose that happen during the course of a game? Not very, Radar or your allies there with BAP could tell you the SAME THING you are seeing right there.

This.

You don't even need any teammates for that. Just mount a seismic and you're good. Also since the drone is hovering above you the 1st Person players on the other side know something's comin around that corner soon even without any spotter or seismic.

[Deathlike]

Here are suggestions/steps to produce the video:

1) Show player in 3PV, looking over hill.

2) Show player communicating mechs+relative locations/numbers to teammates, while going back to 1PV to shoot targets.

3) Show player's team win because of the "new" information warfare.

4) ?????

5) Profit!

Edited by Deathlike, 21 August 2013 - 07:10 AM.

[InRev]

People claiming that 3PV offers no advantage need to play as a scout tank in WoT. A good scout is a force multiplier, and if you can relay tactical deployments without receiving return fire, then you're golden.

Saying that isn't an advantage is just a joke.

[Tharimiar]

what about an update that would make it possible to disable third person view? Like for instance when you see the little camera floating above em you can peg it with a laser and blow it up. It would more than likely disable 3pv temporarily while the drone was "repaired" or something like that. That way there is still a counter that can be tactically assessed for 3pv.

I think the only other good change for it would to be to make a mech targetable if its in 3pv and you see the camera floating.

[Shae Starfyre]

Deathlike, on 21 August 2013 - 06:47 AM, said:

How about having those queues that... to confirm/reaffirm or break my logic? Then we can see how things fall.

Uh, because, as a developer and QA tester, I would put it in a single queue to uh gain as much data as required to make future decisions.... but that is just me.

[Andross Deverow]

William Mountbank, on 21 August 2013 - 01:17 AM, said:

I'm not against 3PV as such, it was in previous MW games and it's nice to have a view of your own mech sometimes. But those, for me at least, were all single player games.

Prior to seismic, MWO had a really interesting dynamic with mech movement and limited situational awareness. I understand why people don't like that mechanic, it took me a few matches to really get to grips with it. But it meant that if I out manoeuvred another player, it was because I out thought him - as opposed to the current seismic meta, where it means I simple had a bigger engine, because at no point did I have to guess where my opponent was.
3PV is an extension of this reduction of awareness burden on the player. So the sense of reward a player gets from playing MWO currently comes from exploding another stompy robot, whereas the pre-seismic game rewarded players for outsmarting another human being (exploding his robot was purely an additional benefit).

I couldnt agree more with this posting....
Well thought through, I always felt that Mechwarrior was supposed to be a combat simulator as it was originally designed. PGI has been widdeling away at the very foundation of the Mechwarrior franchise from the very beginning. Seismic pretty much took away any ability to actually surprise anyone during a battle. Now people can see you when they shouildnt be able too as well. Mechwarrior was originally intended as a battle simulator and should have been left so.

Regards.

Edited by Andross Deverow, 21 August 2013 - 07:14 AM.

[Nightcrept]

Galen Crayn, on 21 August 2013 - 02:35 AM, said:

Russ Bullock said in twitter: Showing me a picture that displays more of a view is not the smoking gun. I want to know if people using it can actually kill, dmg, win more

And he is right. This picture only shows an atlas watching a battle scene. Nothing more. He doesnt shoot better, has not more armor, he only has a better view. Will he kill more than without 3rd PV? I doubt it... So what?

As said above by M.

Before:
You want to know what's behind the ridge? You leave cover and see what's going on, possibly getting a bunch of PPCs and Gauss Rifles in your face.

Now:
You want to know whats behind the ridge? You leave cover and see what's going on, possibly getting a bunch of PPCs and Gauss Rifles in your face; OR you just activate 3PV and check it out, making the PPCs and Gauss Rifle users on the other side be aware of your presence, but unable to do anything about it. You lost nothing. You already wanted to know what was behind the ridge, so you couldn't really avoid alerting the enemy to your presence - but now you at least won't risk being greeted with enemy fire.


That is a huge advantage.

[DodgerH2O]

William Mountbank, on 21 August 2013 - 01:17 AM, said:

I'm not against 3PV as such, it was in previous MW games and it's nice to have a view of your own mech sometimes. But those, for me at least, were all single player games.

Prior to seismic, MWO had a really interesting dynamic with mech movement and limited situational awareness. I understand why people don't like that mechanic, it took me a few matches to really get to grips with it. But it meant that if I out manoeuvred another player, it was because I out thought him - as opposed to the current seismic meta, where it means I simple had a bigger engine, because at no point did I have to guess where my opponent was.
3PV is an extension of this reduction of awareness burden on the player. So the sense of reward a player gets from playing MWO currently comes from exploding another stompy robot, whereas the pre-seismic game rewarded players for outsmarting another human being (exploding his robot was purely an additional benefit).

Just quoting again because it's so important. Awareness and outsmarting others drew me to this game. During the whole initial ECM debacle I constantly argued that I didn't care about missile locks, I cared about the fact that ECM allowed you to destroy enemy situational awareness of their own team (this has been fixed, finally). Seismic and 3PV do not remove the necessity of scouting, outsmarting, and using awareness, but they diminish the dramatic tension of a match for me. Choosing not to use them puts players at a disadvantage to those who use them intelligently, so even those who don't use them out of principle will suffer the effects of their presence.

[qki]

Try to be cool about this.

Normally, you'd have comsat intel, relayed to you by a comms officer, or other means of getting more accurate information.
That old trailer for the 3015 game that never happened shows the whammy using a drone to get a better view of the battlefield.


Being able to see around corners, and over hills is a big advantage, but to fight effectively, you have to switch back to 1st person, as 3pv is rubbish for that.

You'd be surprised how that little arrow on the minimap helps you orient your mech, and how much more difficult it is in 3rd person. Not to mention the wonky reticule.

My biggest concern, was that 3pv would allow you aim while concealed, and come out with guns perfectly on target.
And consequently, my biggest fear was that you'd have to completely abandon playing in 1st person, to remain competetive, and that's not the case.


I still think it was the most pointless update, as it added a mode that not only no one but the most diehard noobs wanted, but one that people were actively against. It also goes about every promise to make MWO a true-to-it's-roots, tactical game, not a shallow robot brawl, and that you'd have to deal with all the limitations of vision, and limited information.

[LordDante]

Galen Crayn, on 21 August 2013 - 02:35 AM, said:

Russ Bullock said in twitter: Showing me a picture that displays more of a view is not the smoking gun. I want to know if people using it can actually kill, dmg, win more

And he is right. This picture only shows an atlas watching a battle scene. Nothing more. He doesnt shoot better, has not more armor, he only has a better view. Will he kill more than without 3rd PV? I doubt it... So what?

no but his buddys, that can cordinate a flanking move with this intel ,will have a big advantage killing them dudes standing there

[Prophetic]

SirLANsalot, on 20 August 2013 - 11:37 PM, said:

nice doctoring up a screen shot to prove your "point".

10 points for completely delusional.

If you do not know how to achieve this in every match then you have just proven how much of a disadvantage so many are at this point.

3PV needs to be in a separate queue. Like it was promised.

Mark my words. Not only is 3PV here to stay but I see plenty of buffs for it on the horizon.

[Kaldor]

Galen Crayn, on 21 August 2013 - 02:35 AM, said:

Russ Bullock said in twitter: Showing me a picture that displays more of a view is not the smoking gun. I want to know if people using it can actually kill, dmg, win more

And he is right. This picture only shows an atlas watching a battle scene. Nothing more. He doesnt shoot better, has not more armor, he only has a better view. Will he kill more than without 3rd PV? I doubt it... So what?

"Never go full ******"

[extraammo]

There needs to be a "maybe" option for this poll. They should make the drone targetable so that it's position is relayed to allies. The fact that they implemented it in a physically reasonable way, is pretty awesome. They just need to expound on that and it's alright.

I don't get why everyone is so close minded and angry. Look at it with some sort of, "Hmm, maybe we could make it work like this." It's not like PGI is following tabletop with how weapons work with the whole convergence thing, so it is kinda nice that they implemented 3PV in a way that is somewhat (though not completely) balanced.

As is, there are some issues. Obviously queues for 1vp restrictions should be put in place, but this drone has potential to be an interesting addition to gameplay.

[Lostdragon]

So much for role warfare. Now all you need to be the best scout in the game is a rock that is as tall and wide as your mech.