271 replies to this topic

[Deathwalker]

Teralitha, on 14 June 2012 - 11:43 PM, said:

I will use my chess game analogy again here for your question.. In chess you have 6 different peices that each have their own movement style. Pawns only go forward, knights jump in L shape, etc etc... Now compare mechs to chess pieces, except the chessboard is now your battlemap. With the chess board's 64X64, and with the 6 ways to move pieces, you have huge number of possible outcomes in any given game. Now suppose you were to create another chess piece, that had yet another unique move. You then increase the number of possibilites and combinations of moves drastically. This will have the same effect on a game of mechwarrior. A mech with its own unique move adding more possibilities and combinations of actions and results. A game with even more variables, becomes a game with a higher learning/skill curve. Which is good, in a game of skill.

Does this make sense to you?


Support 360, Support Diversity.

Ok, I'll go ahead and try to take a VERY simplistic analogy and twist to so the original poster can understand. Your not talking about adding a new chess piece to the board. What you are talking about is adding a whole new set of rules to the game of chess (http://www.amazon.co...d/dp/1556343191) and expecting us to buy into it as a "simple" change that adds diversity. From what I have read (and I have read the whole thread) this is how most people feel about you 360 twist. We all have favorite mechs and we all want to get the most out of them. Listen to the people who are voting at about 60% AGAINST. Its not a good idea. It will unbalance the game. It will cause more problems then its worth to make 2% of the people happy.

[Dhimmi]

what worries me a bit in general is the fact that a big chunk of the poll-takers ( at this point) seems willing to sacrifice playability in lieu for strict adherence to "the canon" this may not be the best thing for getting the best game possible imho...

Edited by Dhimmi, 15 June 2012 - 01:15 AM.

[Max Liao]

Dhimmi, on 15 June 2012 - 01:14 AM, said:

what worries me a bit in general is the fact that a majority of the poll-takers ( at this point) seems willing to sacrifice playability in lieu for strict adherence to "the canon" this may not be the best thing for getting the best game possible imho...

Without adherence to the canon it's no longer a BattleTech/MechWarrior game, it simply becomes Big Giant Space Robots PewPew Online. If you're just looking for a random robot shooter, that's fine - hopefully this will be fun enough for you until Shogo 2 or Heavy Gear 3 is made - until then have fun playing as a pilot in the BattleTech/MechWarrior universe.

[Dhimmi]

Max Liao, on 15 June 2012 - 01:18 AM, said:

Without adherence to the canon it's no longer a BattleTech/MechWarrior game, it simply becomes Big Giant Space Robots PewPew Online. If you're just looking for a random robot shooter, that's fine - hopefully this will be fun enough for you until Shogo 2 or Heavy Gear 3 is made - until then have fun playing as a pilot in the BattleTech/MechWarrior universe.

I agree on your point that canon should be respected (fan myself) but if playability gets sacrificed for canon it may be bad for the game in the long run

[Victor Morson]

This is the kind of thread we'd manage to avoid on this forum for SO long. I guess it got worse now that the release date is closer but, seriously, people are up in arms IF they decide to add 360 torso twist to a couple 'mechs? Really?

[TheBillsta]

This thread is comedy gold.

Teralitha, please continue your terrible arguments for my amusement

Edited by TheBillsta, 15 June 2012 - 02:02 AM.

[UnseenFury]

Geist Null, on 13 June 2012 - 08:13 AM, said:

no. your not a turret, your a mech.

New way of torturing English by americans.

[Fooooo]

I'm not seeing how adding some mechs with 360 degree torso's adds variety.

All its doing is giving a few mechs an advantage that the others cannot have.

If you add it only to the raven etc then your giving a fast scout that can already run circles around most heavier mechs, an even bigger advantage that it never really needed in the first place.

I don't see the point in it, if your running away, your running for a reason, to get the hell away! not to keep engaging.

If your not running away then it means you never have to "swap" the direction of your turn when someone gets to your opposite side, you just keep turning the torso around and walla.......sorta removes some skill imo.

Definatly don't like the idea.

[Crimson Dux]

[Rogen]

I would explin my opinion, i thing most of the mech should have the +/- 60^o torso twist(could be more), and be able to use arm mounted weapons even furher from the the axis (with torsoo twist and arm weapons you should be able to fire to your back.

Mech with fixed arms (catapult, stalker, raven, jenner, cicada), should have more vide torso thist angle +/- 90^o (even 120^o) at least (and no arm flipping), so they will reach further from the axis, but can't reach to the exact rear.

Technically 360^o torso thist doesn't make sense, as the mech gyro would have problem to compensate for the full rotation, also it would technically be really problematic as mech probably need a lot of cable, and pipe connection throug pelvis which would snap if forced to rotate fully. So technocally maximum possible rotation would be around +/- 180^o (probably no more than 150^o) and after max rotation to one side you have to return to normal (0) position befor rotating to other side.

[Promptus]

Freyar, on 14 June 2012 - 06:57 PM, said:

Where's my popcorn.. this is just great to watch.

[Promptus]

Max Liao, on 15 June 2012 - 12:09 AM, said:

What 'Mech had 360 in the books?

This is really the heart of one of the problems. Taking into account the tech manuals and rulesets up to and including the 3050 invasion the only mention of torso twist beyond the standard mechanic was for quad mechs and prone mechs, which are allowed NO torso twist. But as you are aware we aren't discussing the 'terrible' tabletop rules nor are we *gasp* even allowed to mention them. The 360 argument "for mechs that had them" is based exclusively on Microsoft's arcade game rewrites (Mechwarrior 4, Mech Assault, etc.) and the homegrown efforts of Mechwarrior Living Legends.

[Teralitha]

Deathwalker, on 15 June 2012 - 01:03 AM, said:

It will cause more problems then its worth to make 2% of the people happy.

That little statment ruins your whole post. Look at the poll results a little closer... we have 30% of the ppl voting for 360. If it was 2%, I would have quit posting in here long ago. The fact that 30% of the players voting have enough intelligence to understand why 360 is a good thing encourages me to go on.

Max Liao, on 15 June 2012 - 01:18 AM, said:

Without adherence to the canon it's no longer a BattleTech/MechWarrior game, it simply becomes Big Giant Space Robots PewPew Online. If you're just looking for a random robot shooter, that's fine - hopefully this will be fun enough for you until Shogo 2 or Heavy Gear 3 is made - until then have fun playing as a pilot in the BattleTech/MechWarrior universe.

360 is part of the battletech universe.


Support 360, Support diverity, Support MWO improvements

[Professor Sakharov]

No 360 twist. It breaks the Mech simulation.

[Teralitha]

Dhimmi, on 15 June 2012 - 01:25 AM, said:

I agree on your point that canon should be respected (fan myself) but if playability gets sacrificed for canon it may be bad for the game in the long run

Another person with more than half a brain that gets it!!!!

[Teralitha]

TheBillsta, on 15 June 2012 - 02:02 AM, said:

This thread is comedy gold.

Teralitha, please continue your terrible arguments for my amusement

You find my arguements amusing because you dont have enough wits to understand why I am right. 30% of the of the population with the higher IQ in favor of 360 are laughing at you. And at the same time, feeling pity, because stupidity cant be cured....

[Egomane]

Teralitha, stop insulting those who do not agree with you! Next time I see it, I will report it and let the mods decide what to do with you.

And before you even begin to think, I want to shut you up, because of this 360° comedy, let me tell you:
No, it does not have anything to do with it! Your insults simply started to get on my nerves and are the reason I stoped arguing about this topic.

[chymera]

Perhaps allow torso twist on certain mechs but decrease the overall torso twist speed? I do lean more toward a non-360 torso twist for battlemechs ( I cannot visualize an Awesome turning itself all the way around and firing its PPCs) but I wouldn't consider it game breaking; it took a certain amount of skill for you to do it in MW4 and with the view being restrict to the cockpit in MWO it gets even more dicey. I'd probably expect that the Clans would have looked in to this...

[BlindProphet]

Teralitha, on 15 June 2012 - 07:46 AM, said:

360 is part of the battletech universe.


Support 360, Support diverity, Support MWO improvements

Actually, no its not. Unless you have a specific canon reference to it, which to my knowledge there is none.

And no MW4 is not canon.

Teralitha, on 15 June 2012 - 07:58 AM, said:

You find my arguements amusing because you dont have enough wits to understand why I am right. 30% of the of the population with the higher IQ in favor of 360 are laughing at you. And at the same time, feeling pity, because stupidity cant be cured....

Actually you don't make any actual arguments. You say it adds to diversity. Yet you also say theres a lack of diversity in MW is because mechs only move and shoot but make no argument as to how adding 360 torso twist would change that at all.

All you've done is parrot the same 'it adds diversity' line without actually making an argument as to how it adds diversity, or why its needed. Repeated attempts to get you to explain these things have been met with "i have" when you have not yet put forth a coherent well reasoned argument for it.

You've been repeatedly intellectually dishonest, and continue to be. That is something I don't see stopping anytime soon.

You can laugh at me all you want. I don't particularly care in all honesty what you think of me. That doesn't make you correct, or your argument sound in any way. It just makes you a tiny tiny man.

[Teralitha]

Egomane, on 15 June 2012 - 08:15 AM, said:

Teralitha, stop insulting those who do not agree with you! Next time I see it, I will report it and let the mods decide what to do with you.

And before you even begin to think, I want to shut you up, because of this 360° comedy, let me tell you:
No, it does not have anything to do with it! Your insults simply started to get on my nerves and are the reason I stoped arguing about this topic.

All of the idiotic arguments against 360 have gotten on my nerves. But I dont want to shut any of those people up. I want to them to see the error of their ways, and change their vote. At this point, Im sure I have been reported a number of times. Yet, I havent recieved so much as a warning. This might be because the moderators are agreeing with my comments... I dunno...

Edited by Teralitha, 15 June 2012 - 08:20 AM.