67 replies to this topic

[paxmortis]

Morashtak, on 02 October 2013 - 06:01 PM, said:

Just another small item - The Locust max leg armor should be 16 not 20. Internal structure points in TRO 3025 is listed as 4. This would give a BTU armor value of 8 and a MWO armor value of 16.

You are totally right the internal structur of a 20 ton Mech in MWO is 8, so max Armor is 16. But remember we not the creators of the smurfy mech lab. We use the links in the mech list only to show how the mechs are look. But we not coding the mech lab it self.

Morashtak, on 02 October 2013 - 06:01 PM, said:

Also, how did you arrive at a max engine rating of 170? Just curious.

The engine maximum for a light mech is engine rating * 1.4 or max 150 kph of speed. So the maximum engine rating of the locust is 170.

[Crashingmail]

Sorry for all that tried to access the page within the last couple of hours. I got a downtime on the homepage and this affected also the link to the mbv calculator.

[HammerSwarm]

I like and support this as a reasonable change.

my evolving thought process went something like.

"Random matchmaker is stupid, you need to balance equipment, perks, and weight"
"I guess elo is okay, it'll balance for equipment eventually...it's better than nothing!"
"We need tonnage limits because if you're only doing ELO a 1 atlas pilot and a 1 hunchback pilot are not equal"
And now
"Yeah we need a BV 2.0 like system to balance out everything combine with ELO"

So I think my ideal match would be set up thusly:

Limit groups by tonnage, then match by BV and ELO.

So you have the hard cap on tonnage leading to mech diversity, and you can balance BV and ELO to deliver matches where you might outgun the other team but you're facing better pilots.

Perfect scenario IMHO

[paxmortis]

Long time we wrote nothing here. So what we (Crashingmail) do in the background.

Crashingmail had a wonderful idea, but it is not complete yet.

What is this idea?

At the moment you can enter links, from the smurfy mech lab, to calculate the MBV of your mech. Crashingmail had the idea, to give you a database, where you can save this chassis.

I am very thankful that he think about this idea and working on it. I know this not a easy job but when a man can do this job, its our Senior Master Chief Petty Officer "Crashingmail".

So stay tune. This idea from the community is alive and stay alive. It will give you all, the possibilty to organize tournaments. In every techlevel of MWO, with the MBV.

We say thats for your support and the good ideas you give us.

[Crashingmail]

Updated database with actual informations from gaming files and new mechs.
Additional tweaked the layout a bit for a better search option and table sorting.

Hopefully get the function to save templates up and running within the next two days.

[Lord of All]

I have to say I like the concept and all the work you've put into this and applaud the fact you have forseen the need for this tool but the only Mechs I know well enough to rate would never be rated even close to this.

I would have issues with the values you are useing to achieve this.

AS7-K > AS7-RS > AS7-DC > AS7-D

[paxmortis]

First thanks for the praise. I think you mean the difference in the points of the atlas mechs. The Atlas K using modern and mostly long range weapons. additional he had an AMS and CASE that increase the points of the mech.

The AMS increase the value with 100 pts. + 50 pts. for the ammo (MBV / 10 = +15 pts.)
The CASE systems had a value of two times 50 pts. (MBV / 10 = +10 pts)
The weapon point difference of the AS7-K and his Atlas comrades is only around 70 pts. (MBV / 10 = +7 pts)

So he gain the most points for the equipment the other AS7 not have. Hope this answer will help to understand it.

[Crashingmail]

Some good news, i made i today to get the function online to upload your smurfy links into the database.
With this u can compare the results with existing uploads or stock loadouts.

Right now there i no limitation, but i need to watch it carefully.

[Lord of All]

paxmortis, on 17 October 2013 - 12:02 AM, said:

First thanks for the praise. I think you mean the difference in the points of the atlas mechs. The Atlas K using modern and mostly long range weapons. additional he had an AMS and CASE that increase the points of the mech.

The AMS increase the value with 100 pts. + 50 pts. for the ammo (MBV / 10 = +15 pts.)
The CASE systems had a value of two times 50 pts. (MBV / 10 = +10 pts)
The weapon point difference of the AS7-K and his Atlas comrades is only around 70 pts. (MBV / 10 = +7 pts)

So he gain the most points for the equipment the other AS7 not have. Hope this answer will help to understand it.

I completely understand it, I just diagree with you values. Obviousely ECM is not valued high enough in your system.

[paxmortis]

For that reason i need your feedback and thanks that you give it to me

What values have you in your mind?

At the moment we testing the MBV only with 3025 stochmech chassis and there it looks fine.

Edited by paxmortis, 19 October 2013 - 08:44 AM.

[Lord of All]

paxmortis, on 19 October 2013 - 08:44 AM, said:

For that reason i need your feedback and thanks that you give it to me

What values have you in your mind?

At the moment we testing the MBV only with 3025 stochmech chassis and there it looks fine.

That is a tough question and it would take a huge undertaking to balance all the componants. Unfortunately I do not have the time for such an endevour. I salute you and wish you the best in that task.

I would say though for you to test the final values you can post a listing in order of mech values and have the community argue whether the list is correct and if not which mechs should be arranged where and you can adjust values by that input and then the values should migrate into a pretty accurate representation.

Hope I made sence here.

Edit to start I would put the Atlai in this order for MWO. Have no clue on the hero mechs.

DDC
D
RS
K

Edited by Lord of All, 19 October 2013 - 02:35 PM.

[Crashingmail]

D-DC has got no ECM equipped in Stock Load and K is has got a higher MBV because of the Gaus and ER Laser.

The page itself shows first the stock loadouts like u buy them in game and in this case the D-DC is not very expensive.

[Lord of All]

Crashingmail, on 21 October 2013 - 09:54 AM, said:

D-DC has got no ECM equipped in Stock Load and K is has got a higher MBV because of the Gaus and ER Laser.

The page itself shows first the stock load-outs like u buy them in game and in this case the D-DC is not very expensive.

I didn't remember back that far. So the chassis should have different values. In stock form I really don't know but I do remember the K being the least versatile with load-outs. So If this were to be used with a non-stock mode the chassis values would have to be changed.

IIRC the D is the best stock Atlas. I'm far to lazy to look this stuff up especially when I know PGI will not even bother to consider this or a stock mode for that matter.

[Crashingmail]

Yeah maybe they do or not, but the german community uses this now regulary for 12:12 Fights and also we got a new Season of our 3025 Stock Tournament.

In Stock Loadout it does not matter what u can do with the builds, only the usability as they are. With the other tab DB Overview u can see D-DC with ECM and this is more costly

But paxmortis will do some changed on the value calculation after this 3025 Tournament, the Locust is too expensive and also with the changes in reverse speed for lights and bigger engines now for them.

[Nighthound]

Hey guys,

I wrote down my BV 2.0 translation for MWO yesterday here. I've played around with this Idea for months now, and although I have to say I like your system, I think it would require a bit too much work to maintain its viability and that there is a bit too much stuff that can/has to be tweaked in case of changes.
Also I don't think that hardpoint count and placement should be a factor in this, because each has it's own merits and drawbacks. For instance Head and Center Torso hardpoints are inheritantly limited by what can be put onto them, but the CT ones are slightly better protected by armor and arm hardpoints either don't have that big an advantage in some cases (BJ, JM, Catapult,....) but everytime they have the drawback of being less protected by armor. It's just too much work for such a minute change.

Anyhow, have a look or don't it's just a suggestion.

Nighthound

[paxmortis]

Hi Nighthound, the system not need many work to maintain because mostly the game files will used. If something will changed in MWO, it is change after the upload of the needed files in the MBV, too.

The hardpoints itself are not a factor but the location where the weapon is place. I think this is needed let me give you an example. The Stalker-F and the Stalker-N are near similar, the main difference is that type F has a 90° Torso twist and type N on 60°. Thats a mayor factor i think.

The torso / arms pitch and yaw are part of the game files, so not really many work for maintance.

Of course i will take a look into your thread

[Nighthound]

Sorry Pax, you misunderstood me. Yes of course everything is derived from some kind of value within the files, but I would not let the Program make these calculations everytime I change the loadout of a Mech (I speak from a Programmer view here) I would add a BV tag to each piece of equipment that holds a pre calculated value wich would in turn allow me to change this value manually in case of a bug or a quirk that can't be calculated directly. In your system I would have to change modifiers to represent for instance that the srms are not hitting correctly. Also you would have to have different modifiers for different weapons. To use your example If both Stalkers are using LRMs the difference would have to be uncalculabel and if both were to use SRMs it would make some difference but it would still be rather small.
Programming this into the game (UI, Server checks and so on) would be a huge task. While more acurate the required work both initially and in maintaining the viability would blow the frame of usefullness.

[paxmortis]

As i wrote in your thread thats the point you explain as CtH (Chance to Hit). But how it should calculate. Addtional the Hit of a laser is high but mostly it not make the full damage to a mech.

The different modifier of the weapons coming from the community and for our 12 vs 12 test drops we have before the 3025 tourney. I wil get more feedback after the tourney from the 12 teams and so i can tweak the MBV.

As crashingmail wrote i need to make a couple of modifications because parts in the games was changed.

Edited by paxmortis, 23 October 2013 - 02:25 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

I can't stand by and let this topic die in vain.

Its so important that somebody start to understand, that GigaBytes of text and the ideas and thoughts about hundreds of MWO-players have delivered wouldn't have been necessary.
The BattleValue is the only existing long term solution - regarding balance without turning all weapons into 1sec 1dmg DOT weapons. (Ok thats a hyperbole)

However the BV as base for MM should have been used from Day ONE

[Sidekick]

Just a question:

is this still running? I mean, the battle valued german tournaments or even the stock tournaments.

Getting quite bored with the usual stuff, this might be quite a kicker.