904 replies to this topic

[Super Mono]

I assume this will be removed when UI2.0 is introduced, or whenever 12 man groups are made accessible to the target demographic to further push out the core audience.

[Pyrrho]

Heffay, on 28 August 2013 - 01:58 PM, said:

I wonder how Project Phoenix sales are doing, with the announcement of the Saber reinforcements and their plan to implement 1PV only queues?

12v12 pre-made is a separate queue, sure. But it is only one queue. Please don't mislead the community with your egregious plurality.

[Diss]

This is just more BS!

This should be about 12 v 12 ONLY.

Dont tie HARDCORE mode into it, bunch of BS!

[Heffay]

Pyrrho, on 28 August 2013 - 01:58 PM, said:

Also, just so we can be consistent. Heffay... this poll won't matter for every reason you have said every other poll didn't matter. It's just not sampled right.

It's the exact same samples as the other polls. MWO fans who vote on 3PV issues on the forums.

Since the ratio is very similar to the previous polls (and as we learned, you need less than 30 to be accurate), then it's safe to say that 90% of the people who had issues with the 3PV everywhere are happy with a 1PV only poll, as it means that PGI has followed up with their word.

I think what we're seeing here is a bit of confirmation bias. You believe the data you want to believe, and ignore the data you don't like. That doesn't make it any less true, of course.

[Lucky Noob]

i Voted yes,

i dont play 12 premade, but that way at least they can have it.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Have not voted at this time.

Why because im indifferent, i see you trying to split the united "vocal minority" in half, by trying to appease half of them shrinking your problems.

So this is a clever plan.

However the proposed option while a step in the right direction, (and is better than the last set of responses by PGI) is not guaranteed to happen, if you were actually going to do this why the need for the poll at all?
You've stated the forums are not your target demographic and not everyone visits them.
So again why are you sampling the forums for this answer?

It just makes no sense given your past statements and opinion of us passionate forum visiting people

[RG Notch]

Pyrrho, on 28 August 2013 - 02:00 PM, said:

12v12 pre-made is a separate queue, sure. But it is only one queue. Please don't mislead the community with your egregious plurality.

It doesn't matter, the PP line is total BS. Notice no amount for goal, thus that line moves whenever PGI decides. If it were a real goal it would show how much they expected. Since it doesn't it actually shows how scared they are if people could see the actual numbers, kind of like how we don't have a player counter, but PGI keeps claiming lots of people play. People with real good numbers practically trip over themselves to shove them in your face, people with bad numbers hide them and quote squishy numbers because they are scared.

[FactorlanP]

I really wish they would set up these type of threads with a one post rule.

Vote. Post why. Then leave it alone.

Put the debate in a different thread. Just my opinion.

[Belorion]

Even though I have always been a 3pv supporter, I voted yes. I think since the anti-3pv crowd was promised that they would have sanctuary against 3pv then there should be a place where there is no 3pv.

Now destroyable deploy once (like UAV) drones that offer remote viewing is a different story. It could be an advanced view module.

[BlackJackRaider]

I voted yes, but ONLY AS A FIRST STEP.

Honestly, there never should have been any thought of allowing 3pv in 12mans in the first place. That was totally your fault for not limiting it to the pug queue before this point.

Here's an idea: If you think that people complaining about 3pv on the forums are a vocal minority, implement a forced poll that has to be answered before the game can be played or even patched. Ask whether players want to see a hardcore mode or not and whether they would be willing to put up with drastically longer wait times to get a match in that mode.

I'm pretty sure I know the answer that you would get if it were posed to every single person who is actually still playing your messed up game. On the off chance that I am wrong, I will happily post a public apology here and defend the 3pv decision on any of the several gaming forums which I frequent. I don't think that will happen, but I will do it if the majority of players actually want 3pv.

[Heffay]

FactorlanP, on 28 August 2013 - 02:05 PM, said:

I really wish they would set up these type of threads with a one post rule.

Vote. Post why. Then leave it alone.

Put the debate in a different thread. Just my opinion.

That sure would be nice.

[Winterdyne]

I would strongly suggest that in the long run it be made a toggle which the player group agrees to in the pre-matchmaker phase.

'No-3pv' groups could then be matched up against other 'no-3pv groups' and the same mechanism used when matchmaking asymmetric groups (if weight balancing is used, or large IS forces vs small Clan forces etc etc).

[norhymes]

Yes, 12v12 should be limited in this fashion, but we should still have the ability to select queues when dropping outside 12v12.

Most of my time playing is outside that bracket, so doing nothing for smaller groups will only minimally address the concerns of the playerbase.

Further, we also need data on CW and a poll to limit those matches to 1PV there as well if we are to be thorough.

Edited by norhymes, 28 August 2013 - 02:10 PM.

[Xavier Wulf]

To those of you who are saying this is a small step in the right direction, are you sure they will go further with this progression to separate queues?

My opinion is that this stunt is their way of calming those who were outraged by their deceit and misdirection. I don't believe that they have any intention of working towards separate queues if this does infact become their solution.

It seems like they want to come up with a way to stop people from quitting their money maker *notice how theres a new Phoenix Package available now...*

Go big or go home, adding separate queues is the only way I'll play this game again.

[Pyrrho]

Heffay, on 28 August 2013 - 02:01 PM, said:

It's the exact same samples as the other polls. MWO fans who vote on 3PV issues on the forums.

Since the ratio is very similar to the previous polls (and as we learned, you need less than 30 to be accurate), then it's safe to say that 90% of the people who had issues with the 3PV everywhere are happy with a 1PV only poll, as it means that PGI has followed up with their word.

I think what we're seeing here is a bit of confirmation bias. You believe the data you want to believe, and ignore the data you don't like. That doesn't make it any less true, of course.

When you tell someone what they believe, you immediately lose all credibility.


Trying to bring my beliefs into this is pretty much a dopey straw-man as I am not talking about the results of the poll... just the idea that you have advocated (quite tenaciously!) that these polls are useless, unless I missed some sort of reconciliation where you admit that the other samples are statistically valid enough to trust. That was the thrust of your stance from the previous 3PV/Apology feedback thread, IIRC.

How PGI decides to implement a 1PV option will always be at their discretion. Convincing others that their implementation is what the community wants seems to be a red-herring.

[Heffay]

Pyrrho, on 28 August 2013 - 02:09 PM, said:

When you tell someone what they believe, you immediately lose all credibility.


Trying to bring my beliefs into this is pretty much a dopey straw-man as I am not talking about the results of the poll... just the idea that you have advocated (quite tenaciously!) that these polls are useless, unless I missed some sort of reconciliation where you admit that the other samples are statistically valid enough to trust. That was the thrust of your stance from the previous 3PV/Apology feedback thread, IIRC.

How PGI decides to implement a 1PV option will always be at their discretion. Convincing others that their implementation is what the community wants seems to be a red-herring.

Well, either both polls were useless (self selected sample), or neither of them were. Which is it?

[Crazyeyes244]

Where is the option to actually enable hardcore mode? I appreciate the motives behind removing 3PV from the "competitive" play, but 12 mans are a pain to setup so it still leaves out a majority of the "core group."

Really like how this seams like some kind of consolation prize to placate the forum-masses. Also, I really like how the apology thread got locked and redirected here.

Sarcasm aside, at least its a step in the right direction, but still no way I am forking over money for phoenix/saber. I would like to but I don't see why I should.

My vote stands for adding hardcore, and since that won't happen I guess we can at least cut 3PV from 12v12...

Edited by Sam Donelly, 28 August 2013 - 02:14 PM.

[CyBerkut]

Heffay, on 28 August 2013 - 11:09 AM, said:

It's to see how many people who said they were never going to play again were actually serious about it.

And you know this how, exactly?

Quote

This is one of the few times a self-selected poll can be useful. The self-selected people will essentially be the same group, so you can actually compare the results with a decent margin of error.

Don't forget to factor in the losses in the player base (that existed before the patch) that have already occurred.

If they want a true self-selected poll, then reinstate the 1PV-Only queue along side the mixed view queue. Players will self-select what they want to play, and PGI can see the stats. Of course, they would have to want to actually find out what the real deal is, and that does not appear to be their agenda.

This poll as phrased, with the elimination of the hard core option from the menu, will not 'essentially be the same group' as you contend. The limitation of it to 12 vs 12 pre-mades assured that. There are people who do not play as part of a pre-made 12 man drop team that do not want to play in, or against 3PV play. Their dollars are just as good as the ones spent by people who drop as 12 vs 12 pre-mades.

Not good enough, Bryan. Your core players were not all 12 man pre-made players.

[warp103]

WOW.


So basically you are trying to divide and conquer people against 3pv person that want 1pv. I do not player 12man so i guess I get screwed . Just like adding the saber packer to stop the bleeding.

Nice trick { a yes vote is a vote for the Trick}.

I will not fall for it but if enough do you get out of the deepshit hole.

Oh and nice lock of other 2 thread so it look like we have giving up.

Edited by warp103, 28 August 2013 - 02:21 PM.

[Ranik Selesky]

Guys rather than only posting in the thread. You should also tweet bryan at @bryanekman

Sending responses directly to them will be better than purely in a forum