904 replies to this topic

[LegoPirate]

Deathlike, on 28 August 2013 - 03:43 PM, said:

Wouldn't that just affirm their declining playerbase/activity in this game?

not nessecarily. just means that the players they do get/retain go to 1pv.

for reference. dota2 regularly has over 200K people on. it still takes 5 mins on average to find a game. and thats only with 5 players.

if the 3pv queue is less then a thousand players then theyll have trouble finding games, especially when tonnage limits make it into the game (side note, please dont put tonnage limits for 12 man groups.)

i know this situation isnt ideal, but im pretty sure there is a good reason theyre resisting this so hard.

[Mrllamaface]

This might end up being my longest post...but then again I typically like to keep it short.


I want to start off by saying thank you Bryan for making an effort to accommodate everyone who is interested in the game. I know it is impossible to make everyone happy, but an honest effort to hear people out is always welcome. I do however have a few concerns I would like to make known in a hopefully constructive manor.

1) I am concerned that this solution is passing a problem down on to your customers. That being it is often very difficult to get 11 friends on to play at the same time, especially if you have not conected with a unit yet. This could impact new players who are interested in a first person simulator. As anyone can note I am a member of a unit so this does not necessarily apply to me all the time, but I can still be effected. Which brings me to my second point.

2) There is the basic assumption in the poll that only "hard core" or "competitive" players would be interested in a first person only experience. I find that hard to believe, because I don't consider myself either "hard core" or "competitive". I like to play games with my friends and I enjoy the immersion 1st person only provides me. Although I have no hard evidence to support this, I truly believe I am not the only person with this view.

3) You yourself said "never say never". Is it perhaps a bit too soon to dismiss the idea of 3rd person and 1st person queues? I realize there is a concern about splitting the player base, but no one knows how many new folks and returning old folks will be back with official launch.

4) Associated with number three, I am concerned as a player and paying customer about the current activity level in game. I say this because if the activity levels are so low as to prevent two queues what will happen if people start to leave?

5) Assuming the casual player does want to drop in first person only, will there be support for this. For example: a lobby and in game voice chat? If such features are not included I personally believe it will be unlikely to see any growth in the 12 v 12 drops. So i guess in short do you plan on full supporting this as a feature?

6) This is my personal feeling on how the last state of the game made me feel as a customer. While I appreciate the concept of the "show must go on" I feel that your statements came off as cold. Let me explain some. Using terms like "vocal minority" and "on an island" imply to me that I am some thing to be "dealt with" and not taken seriously. I am sure that was not your intent, but that is certainly how you made me feel in your post. I am sure as a company you don't want to scare off any customers so please in the future remember that people might interpret what you call them as an insult.

I hope that this wasn't too long and that the feed back is considered.

Thanks

Llama
Edit* fixed spelling mistakes

Edited by Mrllamaface, 28 August 2013 - 05:37 PM.

[Kunae]

Chavette, on 28 August 2013 - 03:47 PM, said:

I already did in the first post but you didn't manage to decode half of it and tried to make a strawman from the other half. Why would I parrot myself after that?

Because parrots are pretty?

[Deathlike]

LegoPirate, on 28 August 2013 - 03:49 PM, said:

not nessecarily. just means that the players they do get/retain go to 1pv.

for reference. dota2 regularly has over 200K people on. it still takes 5 mins on average to find a game. and thats only with 5 players.

Having kinda played through a different MM type of system in Warcraft 3, I understand that there is a difficulty into attempt to match people of equal skills... and that's probably what DOTA/LOL and other games do. The difference is that the MM in this game is generally optimized for "getting you to a match ASAP", but has a notable deficiency in addressing "actual" imbalances in skill and tonnages... both of which are pretty important for people.

Quote

if the 3pv queue is less then a thousand players then theyll have trouble finding games, especially when tonnage limits make it into the game (side note, please dont put tonnage limits for 12 man groups.)

i know this situation isnt ideal, but im pretty sure there is a good reason theyre resisting this so hard.

I would rather them admit to the truth than to "reshape" the truth into whatever they see fit.

[FactorlanP]

I'm not terribly concerned with a yes vote being "tacit" approval for something later.

If they go that route.  I walk away.

The only thing that I can threaten PGI with is withdrawing my financial support.  I can do that again later, if need be.

I would, however, really like a clarification on Community Warfare.


What I would like to see is lobbies that make it easier for 12 guys who aren't necessarily all in the same Merc Corp to team up.  
Then, allow all players the Mixed/1PV check box.  But if a player fails to find a match, have a pop up message that clearly states that any failed matches or long waits may be due to the 1PV/3PV choices that the player has selected, advising the player that changing the slection may improve the wait times.

This way, long wait times and failed to find matches will be squarely a product of the players choice that he is free to change at anytime to improve his match finding experience if he wishes.

Edited by FactorlanP, 28 August 2013 - 04:00 PM.

[Stunner]

I think it's good that you are considering removing 3pv from 12 v 12 play but I still don't think that's the overall answer. If the goal of 3rd person view is to help new players why gimp them with all of the 3rd person penalties. Don't you want them to keep playing and eventually spend money on the game? Current 3rd person only benefits scouts and a skilled pilot. I still think you should take 3pv and keep it just for new players have a queue for them where 3pv is not gimped but keep the rewards down (other than the real new player that has the new player money buff). Allow them to learn the game learn torso movement and such and allow there to be an arcade mode like other games where 3pv view has less rewards, free repairs and does not affect community warfare. Then have a community warfare queue when the pay is higher, I have to repair my mech but I get better salvage, I can only play in 1pv and my missions affect gameplay (community) I think this is a much better answer and achieves your original intention with 3pv. This allows me to go play some 3pv to scope out my new paint job in arcade mode and perhaps test out my new weapons without it having large ramifications.

[Trev Firestorm]

Mrllamaface, on 28 August 2013 - 03:50 PM, said:

This might end up being my longest post...but then again I typically like to keep it short.


I want to start off by saying thank you Bryan for making an effort to accommodate everyone who is interested in the game. I know it is impossible to make everyone happy, but an honest effort to hear people out is always welcome. I do however have a few concerns I would like to make known in a hopefully constructive manor.

1) I am concerned that this solution is passing a problem down on to your customers. That being it is often very difficult to get 11 friends on to play at the same time, especially if you have not conected with a unit yet. This could inpact new players who are interested in a first person simulator. As anyone can note I am a member of a unit so this does not necessarily apply to me all the time, but I can still be effected. Which brings me to my second point.

2) There is the basic assumption in the pole that only "hard core" or "competitive" players would be interested in a first person only experience. I find that hard to believe, because I don't consider myself either "hard core" or "competitive". I like to play games with my friends and I enjoy the immersion 1st person only provides me. Although I have no hard evidence to support this, I truly believe I am not the only person with this view.

3) You yourself said "never say never". Is it perhaps a bit too soon to dismiss the idea of 3rd person and 1st person queues? I realize there is a concern about splitting the player base, but no one knows how many new folks and returning old folks will be back with official launch.

4) Associated with number three, I am concerned as a player and paying customer about the current activity level in game. I say this because if the activity levels are so low as to prevent two queues what will happen if people start to leave?

5) Assuming the casual player does want to drop in first person only, will there be support for this. For example: a lobby and in game voice chat? If such features are not included I personally believe it will be unlikely to see any growth in the 12 v 12 drops. So i guess in short do you plan on full supporting this as a feature?

6) This is my personal feeling on how the last state of the game made me feel as a customer. While I appreciate the concept of the "show must go on" I feel that your statements came off as cold. Let me explain some. Using terms like "vocal minority" and "on an island" imply to me that I am some thing to be "dealt with" and not taken seriously. I am sure that was not your intent, but that is certainly how you made me feel in your post. I am sure as a company you don't want to scare off any customers so please in the future remember that people might interpret what you call them as an insult.

I hope that this wasn't too long and that the feed back is considered.

Thanks

Llama

Out of likes, I owe you one, excellent post.

[Franchi]

FactorlanP, on 28 August 2013 - 03:55 PM, said:

I'm not terribly concerned with a yes vote being "tacit" approval for something later.

If they go that route. I walk away.

The only thing that I can threaten PGI with is withdrawing my financial support. I can do that again later, if need be.

I would, however, really like a clarification on Community Warfare.


What I would like to see is lobbies that make it easier for 12 guys who aren't necessarily all in the same Merc Corp to team up.
Then, allow all players the Mixed/1PV check box. But if a player fails to find a match, have a pop up message that clearly states that any failed matches or long waits may be due to the 1PV/3PV choices that the player has selected, advising the player that changing the slection may improve the wait times.

This way, long wait times and failed to find matches will be squarely a product of the players choice that he is free to change at anytime to improve his match finding experience if he wishes.

Please read this, pay special attention to the "details" section as they say the devil is in the details.

A vote is not tactic approval, its implied approval for something that will be done NOW not at some future date.

Quote

Posted Today, 01:21 PMProposal: Limit 12 v 12 pre-made group matches to 1PV only.
Release Date: Mid to Late September

Details: 12 man pre-made group matches will have 1PV enforced as the only useable view mode. Players will not be able to switch between 1PV and 3PV when playing in 12 v 12 pre-made match play.

This gives our core audience, who represent almost exclusively the 12 man team group play, a place to enjoy a pure 1PV experience.

The public queues will remain a mix of 1PV and 3PV modes and Hardcore mode will be removed from the drop down list. Future enhancements to the matchmaker will allow stricter tonnage limits, and encourage a more fair and level playing field for all MWO matches.

[ICEFANG13]

Its so damn funny how many people say its hard to get 12 people on at once. Its so true. Maybe we are actually the minority because all of our friends ran off already.

*reads poll again*

Nope, even with that we're still majority, even though I doubt how they'll do this.

[Geck0]

There is no point in voting because PGI has shown that they will do whatever they want regardless of these polls.

[FactorlanP]

Franchi, on 28 August 2013 - 04:01 PM, said:

Please read this, pay special attention to the "details" section as they say the devil is in the details.

A vote is not tactic approval, its implied approval for something that will be done NOW not at some future date.

Yes yes, I'm aware. But I can walk away from this at any time. It is PGI's responsibility to keep me here, and to keep me interested enough to keep spending.

I'm finished arguing over it really. Either I enjoy the product or I do not. The moment that I stop enjoying it, I'm gone. That may be next week, next month, or years from now.

I think they know where I ultimately stand. It's in PGI's hands now. I just hope they don't **** it up again, I'm already hanging by a very thin thread.

Edited by FactorlanP, 28 August 2013 - 04:05 PM.

[Salient]

So the compromise is now that we only get 1pv in 12v12? So i have to find 11 people to play this game the way I want to... thats nice... I guess we're supposed to be thankful you'll do anything at all for us? You better make 12v12 more interesting, like tonnage limits, before this minor compromise will bring me back to MWO.

[Crumbum]

What a joke.

[CyBerkut]

Heffay, on 28 August 2013 - 01:07 PM, said:

Well, that doesn't mean they aren't keeping their promise.

They have already failed to keep their promise. That pesky "never". It's been over a week now with no 1PV-Only mode available.

Then, there's more... where's the 3PV-only queue? (Not that I'm interested in that). That was promised too. I'll be magnanimous though, and let that one slide.

[Capfailboat]

Franchi, on 28 August 2013 - 12:16 PM, said:

Most of us are not dignifying this with a vote, either way we cast a vote we lose, if we vote yes we are supporting putting 1pv locks on 12 mans ONLY, if we vote no we are saying "no we don't want ipv only."

It's a clever poll they put together, but "my moma did raise no fool"

So you won't say you are for or against it, but will still decide complain instead of being part of a solution. Nice! Unfortunately when you try to straddle the fence, you eventually fall off. #waffleon

[Stunner]

Deathlike, on 28 August 2013 - 03:53 PM, said:

Having kinda played through a different MM type of system in Warcraft 3, I understand that there is a difficulty into attempt to match people of equal skills... and that's probably what DOTA/LOL and other games do. The difference is that the MM in this game is generally optimized for "getting you to a match ASAP", but has a notable deficiency in addressing "actual" imbalances in skill and tonnages... both of which are pretty important for people.



I would rather them admit to the truth than to "reshape" the truth into whatever they see fit.

It's interesting that you use DOTA and LOL as an example considering that they do have separate queues for different types of matches.

[Kunae]

CapnFaiiboat, on 28 August 2013 - 04:09 PM, said:

So you won't say you are for or against it, but will still decide complain instead of being part of a solution. Nice! Unfortunately when you try to straddle the fence, you eventually fall off. #waffleon

Both poll options are on the same side of the fence.

[ryoma]

Crumbum, on 28 August 2013 - 04:06 PM, said:

What a joke.

PGI is a joke.

[Franchi]

CapnFaiiboat, on 28 August 2013 - 04:09 PM, said:

So you won't say you are for or against it, but will still decide complain instead of being part of a solution. Nice! Unfortunately when you try to straddle the fence, you eventually fall off. #waffleon

Re read the OP

Quote

The public queues will remain a mix of 1PV and 3PV modes and Hardcore mode will be removed from the drop down list. Future enhancements to the matchmaker will allow stricter tonnage limits, and encourage a more fair and level playing field for all MWO matches.

Any vote will be construed to mean you are fine with the public ques remaining mixed AND with the mechanic for segregation being removed.

I'm not straddling the fence I'm just not jumping at the bait and switch.

[GreatBeer]

This thread: Hey group of people clamoring for a thing! Do you want that thing? VOTE NOW!

The people who don't care arent here, why would you even bother asking here? And more importantly, since when does PGI actually care what anyone on these forums thinks? We aren't your target demographic, as I recall.